[Bug]? New Technologies in Toy Manufacturing - Possible bug?

[0xDEFACED]

Hello therr!

So i think i might have ran into a slight oversigt. The mission New Technologies in Toy Manufacturing is likely needs a tweaked timer.

Bronze ends even before the shape buffer runs out. Now i understan that there is plenty of shapes going around until then, it can mess with calculations. The Squares, for example are showing 35 total, but 11 is still left before the timer runs out. (and many others)

IS this a bug or intended?

[GospodinNoob]

Originally posted by 0xDEFACED:

Hello therr!

So i think i might have ran into a slight oversigt. The mission New Technologies in Toy Manufacturing is likely needs a tweaked timer.

Bronze ends even before the shape buffer runs out. Now i understan that there is plenty of shapes going around until then, it can mess with calculations. The Squares, for example are showing 35 total, but 11 is still left before the timer runs out. (and many others)

IS this a bug or intended?

Hi!

Some hints:
1)Play with accuracy. 80% of squares accuracy, means that you can route 20% triangles or circles in that output. (So, in fact, you don't need all squares)
2)Use DLL or custom nodes, they work faster because don't waste time to transferring elements between nodes inside themselves.
3)You can buy some upgrades and increase the speed of your scheme

We will check the level, but I am sure that hint will help you!

[0xDEFACED]

First off, thank you very much for the quick reply!

I have managed it, but only barely - spoiler, see bottom for solution :)
That one took me a while as i had to manually experiment with nodes and outputs, but i have managed to get it down eventually, though it took me more time to figure it out than I wanted.


1) Based on my tests, 20% (80%) accuracy is not always the best. I found that in SOME cases lower accuracy does it better (and/or faster by routing shapes differently, filling up 1-2 streams sooner)

• I could not finish one level with 20%, but could with 39-43%
  
  2) I was not thinking of that. But you are right, I have noticed that, but I have glanced over it :/ So that pretty much means that
  
  
• Reusing previous designs are encouraged - I thought that there was more focus on building solutions from Base Nodes
  
• using DLL is encouraged as well, and its not just for "proof of concept" or sandbox
  
  
  
  
  3) I was trying it without any upgrades, as well as with all available ones - still ended before input streams emptied out
  
  Thank you, I am sure this is not a big deal, it is something I've noticed. Also, that particular one really seems to be harsh on medals, I am much further in the story (Dictatorship)
  , i am fully upgraded yet I can still barely make it (also see pictures for details at the bottom)
  
  Now I assume that this may not be the most efficient way, there are not bottlenecks, so that tells me that at it's at least halfway decent solution...
  
  
  Layout:
  https://steamcommunity.com/id/eriongtk/screenshot/964233196144244187
  Test:
  https://steamcommunity.com/id/eriongtk/screenshot/964233196144244418
  
  4) Without any upgrades
  
• Best time was 44.2 seconds
  
  5) With the following upgrades:
  (I am aware that not all of the contribute to relevant speed upgrades)
  
• 1 MB RAM
  
• Tambourine
  
• Rentium
  
• SERVERUS 2000
  
• 256 MB RAM
  
• Gvidia 250
  
• 30GB HDD
  
• KELL SERVER 3500
  
  
  My final time was 43.6, as seen on screenshot
  
  =========================
  
  Now, there is one thing that could be a huge QoL improvement... Even with custom, and well thought out names, it is hard to remember what a particular Custom Node/DLL looks like. Maybe a popup picture (preview what is inside) if its double clicked, or hovered over for a set time?
  
  Maybe opening/Loading the actual Custom Node layout in DLL? So instead of just using the current, single node mode?

[InsanitysFall]

So my solution was a lot more complicated than yours, and I'm now at the point of the game where I've unlocked all of the hardware so likely the times were a little higher when I first completed it as well. I used a DLL with almost the maximum allowable amount of components for the gold star and my time was 23.7

If you want to take a look at it, here is a screenshot of inside my DLL
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1606226077

[0xDEFACED]

Interesting, well, mine might look uncomplicated, i have "had" to spend a lot of time on it by trial and error before i got it working. The initial layout was totally different. I had to tweak it constantly, as the numbers never added up. I was making calculations based on the initial numbers displayed on the input streams, but it threw the entire thing off because it didnt have a chance to go all the way through.

I didnt know if there was anything I missed, or what the issue was. I actually like the idea though, that not all challenges can be completed to gold straight away (as real life can have same scenraios as well, that despite our best efforts, we cannot achieve the best or most optimized results due to hardware limitations)


Edit:

Additional question: Is there a specific reason why DLL Nodes being allowed in some puzzles, but are disabled in others? There are many puzzles for me that come up empty for DLL Nodes

List comes up empty for me even in the Toy Manufacturing puzzle

Edit 2:

DLL is deifnitely not available for me for that (and many other) challenges, list comes up as empty, some other puzzles work fine

I double checked, the SEARCH field is empty

[GospodinNoob]

Originally posted by 0xDEFACED:

Interesting, well, mine might look uncomplicated, i have "had" to spend a lot of time on it by trial and error before i got it working. The initial layout was totally different. I had to tweak it constantly, as the numbers never added up. I was making calculations based on the initial numbers displayed on the input streams, but it threw the entire thing off because it didnt have a chance to go all the way through.

I didnt know if there was anything I missed, or what the issue was. I actually like the idea though, that not all challenges can be completed to gold straight away (as real life can have same scenraios as well, that despite our best efforts, we cannot achieve the best or most optimized results due to hardware limitations)


Edit:

Additional question: Is there a specific reason why DLL Nodes being allowed in some puzzles, but are disabled in others? There are many puzzles for me that come up empty for DLL Nodes

List comes up empty for me even in the Toy Manufacturing puzzle

Edit 2:

DLL is deifnitely not available for me for that (and many other) challenges, list comes up as empty, some other puzzles work fine

I double checked, the SEARCH field is empty

Hi!

I will answer on question about DLL and custom nodes list.
In each task you can use only custom nodes which constructed from nodes from this task.

[silent.e]

Here's my solution.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1614394163

Time was 42.5

All/C Sort was one of the previous problems. If you use the Perceptron Sorter custom node you don't have to train you Proceptrons, I'm lazy like that.

I tried recreating @InsanitysFall solution, but when I tried to use it, it wasn't fast enough to complete. I only have 3 upgrades so I don't know.

[Serendipity]

This is my solution to the problem just in case it helps anyone (DLL)


https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1629894415

[Tiwaking! 56k NZ]

Is it possible to gold star this puzzle without upgrades? The time require is 38 seconds. A basic perceptron takes 0.7 seconds to process data. A simple calculator says that this is impossible to get a gold star:

38 seconds ÷ 0.7 perceptron processing time = ~54.286 shapes

There are two perceptrons so: 2 x 54.286 = 108.471 shapes processed in 38 seconds.

That is assuming a 0 second transmission time and assuming you are only using 2 perceptrons (you need to use more than 2 to solve this mission)

The number of output shapes required is: 30 + 30 + 45 = 105

It seems to be impossible to complete this mission without upgrades within the 38 second time limit. Adding more perceptrons increases the processing time :\

The current Toy Manufacturing requires 4 nodes and 44 seconds and is only barely possible to complete without upgrades.

[Tad]

Originally posted by Tiwaking! 56k NZ:

Is it possible to gold star this puzzle without upgrades? The time require is 38 seconds. A basic perceptron takes 0.7 seconds to process data. A simple calculator says that this is impossible to get a gold star:

38 seconds ÷ 0.7 perceptron processing time = ~54.286 shapes

There are two perceptrons so: 2 x 54.286 = 108.471 shapes processed in 38 seconds.

That is assuming a 0 second transmission time and assuming you are only using 2 perceptrons (you need to use more than 2 to solve this mission)

The number of output shapes required is: 30 + 30 + 45 = 105

It seems to be impossible to complete this mission without upgrades within the 38 second time limit. Adding more perceptrons increases the processing time :\

The current Toy Manufacturing requires 4 nodes and 44 seconds and is only barely possible to complete without upgrades.

I agree, it's barely impossible.

[Tiwaking! 56k NZ]

Originally posted by i'mTDB:

Originally posted by Tiwaking! 56k NZ:

Is it possible to gold star this puzzle without upgrades? The time require is 38 seconds. A basic perceptron takes 0.7 seconds to process data. A simple calculator says that this is impossible to get a gold star:

38 seconds ÷ 0.7 perceptron processing time = ~54.286 shapes

There are two perceptrons so: 2 x 54.286 = 108.471 shapes processed in 38 seconds.

That is assuming a 0 second transmission time and assuming you are only using 2 perceptrons (you need to use more than 2 to solve this mission)

The number of output shapes required is: 30 + 30 + 45 = 105

It seems to be impossible to complete this mission without upgrades within the 38 second time limit. Adding more perceptrons increases the processing time :\

The current Toy Manufacturing requires 4 nodes and 44 seconds and is only barely possible to complete without upgrades.

I agree, it's barely impossible.

Ahh I see how they completed it now. In the old version of While True: learn() the dll's would process information much faster than normal. The only way to complete this mission without upgrades would be to use dll's instead of using normal components.

[+ cq +]

I know this might be necro but, this is how I did it (gold medal):
https://imgur.com/a/NZAhBsR

[Angry Trash]

Originally posted by CQInmanis:

I know this might be necro but, this is how I did it (gold medal):
https://imgur.com/a/NZAhBsR

I have every upgrade available before you leave this section and even exactly copying it this isn't working for me. This level is really pissing me off, I've tried eight different formerly gold earning solutions and some of them don't even earn bronze anymore.

Edit, to clarify : It's not accuracy that's even remotely the problem here. Even with every upgrade I can buy at this point in the game I can't move these shapes fast enough. It's absurd. Finished, copying this exact build, with 44.8/50 seconds. Barely even acceptable as bronze.

[Tiwaking! 56k NZ]

Originally posted by Angry Trash:

Originally posted by CQInmanis:

I know this might be necro but, this is how I did it (gold medal):
https://imgur.com/a/NZAhBsR

This level is really pissing me off, I've tried eight different formerly gold earning solutions and some of them don't even earn bronze anymore.

None of the older solutions work. In fact, a lot of the newer solutions dont work. To beat this level you only need 3 perceptrons. In fact, you can beat it with two custom nodes if you did Dairy Products 'properly'.

[sir_real]

I basically fiddled with things until I got it. wasn't much on strategy but I was ablt to do it like this...


https://imgur.com/a/TdsXqc8 picture

[Tiwaking! 56k NZ]

Originally posted by sir_real:

I basically fiddled with things until I got it. wasn't much on strategy but I was ablt to do it like this...


https://imgur.com/a/TdsXqc8

Thats quite close to the 'correct' answer. Well done!