Remove / change "Spirit"

[Darth_Angeal]

Spirit is the trait number one. There is no reason to pick another class than the ex-cultist from begin.

It´s way too powerful and allows a lot of cheese builds like "taunt seatling + 4-5 turrets. There might be 1-2 bosses where this won´t work, but the rest is ridiculous easy.
There are some mods that get completely filled with one-shot weapons too.

Yes there are several ways to gain mod power too, but you´ve to do something for them or they are binded to a condition. Spirit is for free.

It´s way too powerful. I know the game needs to be fun, but it should be balanced aswell. And i guess it´s not really possible to balance the mods as long as spirit exists and is that big difference between "have it or not".

[Nazareth]

You can get spirit even if you don't start as ex-cultist.

[Darth_Angeal]

Originally posted by THEupsetkitty:

You can get spirit even if you don't start as ex-cultist.

I know that, but that is based on the map spawns.

Not to mention that spirit overshines shadow walker and warrior 1000 times and doesn´t change the fact, that it is probably the most powerful trait in the game.

[ZERO]

Originally posted by Darth_Angeal:

Originally posted by THEupsetkitty:

You can get spirit even if you don't start as ex-cultist.

I know that, but that is based on the map spawns.

Not to mention that spirit overshines shadow walker and warrior 1000 times and doesn´t change the fact, that it is probably the most powerful trait in the game.

personally i feel saying its the most powerful trait in the game is a little much. the most powerful starting trait yes. but i feel kingslayer and the trait that gives +20% base crit are far better, as i find crit builds with the cultist set generate mod power fast even without the spirit trait,

also the hunter trait is quite good solo, i would personally pick it again if i made a new character.

[Noob]

Originally posted by 𝓣𝓸𝓶 31292:

Originally posted by Darth_Angeal:

I know that, but that is based on the map spawns.

Not to mention that spirit overshines shadow walker and warrior 1000 times and doesn´t change the fact, that it is probably the most powerful trait in the game.

personally i feel saying its the most powerful trait in the game is a little much. the most powerful starting trait yes. but i feel kingslayer and the trait that gives +20% base crit are far better, as i find crit builds with the cultist set generate mod power fast even without the spirit trait,

also the hunter trait is quite good solo, i would personally pick it again if i made a new character.

Agreed on this. It's the most useful trait out of the 3 starting traits, but not the most OP

[Demesis]

Spirit is fine. No matter which class you choose in the beginning, you will get it eventually. Removing it entirely will just limit other fun power focused builds and make the game a boring shooter.

Instead of changing Spirit, you should be asking the devs to change useless starting traits like Shadow Walker for the Hunter. It is a waste of points, especially when playing coop.

[Darth_Angeal]

Originally posted by 𝓣𝓸𝓶 31292:

Originally posted by Darth_Angeal:

I know that, but that is based on the map spawns.

Not to mention that spirit overshines shadow walker and warrior 1000 times and doesn´t change the fact, that it is probably the most powerful trait in the game.

personally i feel saying its the most powerful trait in the game is a little much. the most powerful starting trait yes. but i feel kingslayer and the trait that gives +20% base crit are far better, as i find crit builds with the cultist set generate mod power fast even without the spirit trait,

also the hunter trait is quite good solo, i would personally pick it again if i made a new character.

Sure there are several top tier traits like the crit-ones too. I agree on that. I won´t even call it balance to have +20% crit on one trait, but +50% scrap on another. There a clearly ~5 "must have" traits. But that is another thing...

Overall spirit gives you a huge boost to gain mod power. As i said... There are already several cheese builds and spirit makes them ever more "cheesy".
Mods are everything and the big advantage in the game. It might be based on the mods you use, but i would call "spamming mods 24/7" is more helpful than "reyling on crits 24/7". And for critbuilds you have probably a defensiv drawback you don´t have with spirit. Spirit is there anytime and just a big boost.
My friend is able to spam F all the time. He doesn´t even need to shoot the whole time to do that.

The 2nd thing is, that this trait unbalance the mods overall. While some mods has its limits in use, other are spammable 24/7 without a limit. (e.g. the summoner-mods)

Next to hit your shots other mod generating traits have drawbacks or are just situation-based. (e.g. the cultist LIGHT armor, the ring/amulet where you need to eat dmg etc.)
Able to spam the undying mod 24/7 shouldn´t be a thing aswell.

Yes it´s probably opinion based "which is better than the other", but that is atleast my opinion and if i would want it, i could make enough cheese videos based on mod spam. I don´t even have spirit on my own and can cheese several bosses...

While ex-cultist was meant to be something like "the supporter", spirit might should effect support traits only. This would let the dmg/def zones or the heal-mod shine a bit more.

[Sollorex]

In multiplayer you get a another buff that increases mod power generation when near allies. Also, spirit isn't broken compared to everything else. A critical build can literally take half a bosses health in a single shot on hard mode. I've killed bosses without mods many times with ease. Mods are just another way to enjoy the game, if you want to try to cheese with them go ahead. Some mods wouldn't be fun to use without high mods power generation, like teleport. By the way, minions actually do have a limit. I'm not sure about turrets since I didn't test them as much, but the other minions has a maximum of 4 each. When testing the old ones would be replaced by new ones when I went over the limit. I know this wasn't out of their death or time limit, because I summoned over 6 in under 30s, and the last two were summoned out of combat.

[KORJ]

A cultist, has a trait, accumulation of charge.
Warrior, melee damage.
Hunter, stealth ....

I can’t say that I agree that SPIRIT is the best skill since I play without it.

But in my opinion, the hunter should not have stealth, but a bonus to distance damage.

Stealth, compared to two other skills, is rubbish.

[Demesis]

Honestly, it's a coop pve game. If people are having fun using cheese builds, who cares? And it really isn't as OP as one might think. I've seen plenty of players spamming turrets/minions and still die to bosses. Cheese builds alone isn't going to save a bad player, and if you're a good player, you wouldn't be relying on cheese builds anyway.

With that said, many of the traits and mod powers do need some slight balancing. Some of them may be a tad too powerful and others are garbage, like the Storm caller mod.

[KORJ]

Originally posted by Demesis:

useless starting traits like Shadow Walker

Yep

Shadow Walker useless without a Heartseeker.

(Provides 100% Crit Chance against non-aggressive enemies and increases Crit Damage by 15%.)

And at the start of the game, no one will give this ring.

Without him, put points in Walker, idiocy.
This trait does not work with bosses, but you can fight off ordinary monsters even by being naked.


PS:By the way, fist fight being naked with a root in the first location is quite funny.

[Nope]

They should change shadow trait into like increase damage the longer you aim for example, since shadow trait is really underwhelming and don't have a lot of use

[KORJ]

Originally posted by Nope:

increase damage the longer you aim

Wow, that would be a very cool trait that would diversify the battle tactics.

[Sollorex]

Originally posted by Nope:

They should change shadow trait into like increase damage the longer you aim for example, since shadow trait is really underwhelming and don't have a lot of use

Until you realized it's possible to sneak past every enemy in a dungeon. It can also help you do controlled pulls.

[KORJ]

And what's the point?

No, I understand that when going through a company for the third time, it’s not very fun to kill everyone, but what’s the point for the first pass?

Shadow Walker is a starting trait.