Military Precision - How to invite Vickie when already done the Rachel Dare Interference quest

[Jill Palpatine]

First off, is it Rachael or Rachel? I see both options pop-up during the game play. I always thought that Rachael was a typo.

I can't seem to get Vickie invited by talking to Rachel (as recommended by Derek) during the Military Precision quest (the part where you need to show the nude photos of Madison to Vickie). I know the console command "warpto player Vickie" exists and that you had an opportunity to invite Vickie to the party before spoofing the first text message (by sending it to 555-6969 (Vickie) from 555-4242 (Rachel)). But I already have done the Dare Interference quest so the second option is out of the question. I don't want to use console commands unless I really need to. Am I missing something?

[Jill Palpatine]

It should be possible to invite Vickie even if you have done the Dare Interference (Rachael's path) right? See my analysis below.

https://youtu.be/__EyHkUNgwA

3 minutes and 40 seconds in the youtube video above, you'll see the option "Where is Vickie at?" to which Derek responds "Man, I don't even know if she was invited. I'd ask Rachael about that. They're tight from what I remember." and the Vickie Vixen quest starts. 4m25s in you see that Rachael has no new responses as does Katherine (at 4m53s).

I want to include this bug in my bug report :

(also included in the youtube video above which illustrates the bug, startpoint 5m15s)

If you prank Ashley (by doing one of Madison's quests) and you invite Vickie to the party then you get the quest to reconcile your differences with Ashley during the quest "Redemption" by giving her a blue flower (flower in the garden and blue hair dye) and giving her a lit joint (you need to get the drugs from Frank and the paper on the desk in the router room, lit it using the fireplace outside). In the "Training Day/Derek Smash" quest you have the option to let Derek fight with Frank because you know Frank sells drugs and he is involved with the drug bust of Derek's brother (which you can tell Derek).

If you however don't do any of Madison's quests and you even go along with Ashley's plan to humiliate Madison, when you invite Vickie to the party you get the quest "Signs of Affection" where you only need to give Ashley a blue flower. So you miss out on the dialogue with Frank about the drugs so you can't use the dialogue option to find out Frank's involvement in the arrestation of Derek's brother. So you are basically stuck in the "Training Day/Derek Smash" quest (I know you can improve your stamina by doing it 50 times without needing alcohol but this seems to be a bit excessive). Maybe an alternative path is possible where you can ask Rachel to fill your flask with her rum from her thermos (which you normally need to give to Patrick during Derek Smash) and you could drink this instead.

[erasmus]

Originally posted by driesth:

It should be possible to invite Vickie even if you have done the Dare Interference (Rachael's path) right? See my analysis below.

https://youtu.be/__EyHkUNgwA

3 minutes and 40 seconds in the youtube video above, you'll see the option "Where is Vickie at?" to which Derek responds "Man, I don't even know if she was invited. I'd ask Rachael about that. They're tight from what I remember." and the Vickie Vixen quest starts. 4m25s in you see that Rachael has no new responses as does Katherine (at 4m53s).

I want to include this bug in my bug report :

(also included in the youtube video above which illustrates the bug, startpoint 5m15s)

If you prank Ashley (by doing one of Madison's quests) and you invite Vickie to the party then you get the quest to reconcile your differences with Ashley during the quest "Redemption" by giving her a blue flower (flower in the garden and blue hair dye) and giving her a lit joint (you need to get the drugs from Frank and the paper on the desk in the router room, lit it using the fireplace outside). In the "Training Day/Derek Smash" quest you have the option to let Derek fight with Frank because you know Frank sells drugs and he is involved with the drug bust of Derek's brother (which you can tell Derek).

If you however don't do any of Madison's quests and you even go along with Ashley's plan to humiliate Madison, when you invite Vickie to the party you get the quest "Signs of Affection" where you only need to give Ashley a blue flower. So you miss out on the dialogue with Frank about the drugs so you can't use the dialogue option to find out Frank's involvement in the arrestation of Derek's brother. So you are basically stuck in the "Training Day/Derek Smash" quest (I know you can improve your stamina by doing it 50 times without needing alcohol but this seems to be a bit excessive). Maybe an alternative path is possible where you can ask Rachel to fill your flask with her rum from her thermos (which you normally need to give to Patrick during Derek Smash) and you could drink this instead.

It is not possible to pursue Rachael's dares AND bring Vickie to the party, yet. We're going to look into that as we integrate more stories over time.

We got the Derek Smash! /dialogue missing issue but we always love us some video evidence, thank you!

[Jill Palpatine]

But you need Vickie to complete the Ashley Prank questline? Can we expect this fixed soon? For now I will simply use console commands for completing this part.

Also one more thing that is bothering me. If you complete Training Day without starting Derek Smash (by 'practicing' a lot), Vickie still says that she heard that you beat up the bald guy inside and asks if you did it alone.

[erasmus]

Originally posted by driesth:

But you need Vickie to complete the Ashley Prank questline? Can we expect this fixed soon? For now I will simply use console commands for completing this part.

Also one more thing that is bothering me. If you complete Training Day without starting Derek Smash (by 'practicing' a lot), Vickie still says that she heard that you beat up the bald guy inside and asks if you did it alone.

Yes, Vickie is needed to complete the Ashley Prank vs. Madison. What exactly needs to be fixed? The game is not meant to allow every single option to play out in one play session, as it is a choice-driven game. It will always require more than one play session to fully explore all possible 'endings'/dialogues/quests. So unless I am misunderstanding something, there's nothing to fix. But, as I mentioned previously, we are going to look into more ways to integrate stories like Rachael, Ashley, and Vickie, based on "common sense" (i.e. if there's no realistic way one character would know you're plotting against them, or that you have so-and-so's phone number, etc., we'll trim down such confusing restrictions). Whether this will involve partial story completion or complete story completion for one or more of their quests/opportunities is TBD.

In regards to the Training Day feedback, yeah. We probably need a hard check for at least 1 if not 2 liquor items. Whoops

[Jill Palpatine]

Originally posted by erasmus:

Yes, Vickie is needed to complete the Ashley Prank vs. Madison. What exactly needs to be fixed? The game is not meant to allow every single option to play out in one play session, as it is a choice-driven game. It will always require more than one play session to fully explore all possible 'endings'/dialogues/quests. So unless I am misunderstanding something, there's nothing to fix. But, as I mentioned previously, we are going to look into more ways to integrate stories like Rachael, Ashley, and Vickie, based on "common sense" (i.e. if there's no realistic way one character would know you're plotting against them, or that you have so-and-so's phone number, etc., we'll trim down such confusing restrictions). Whether this will involve partial story completion or complete story completion for one or more of their quests/opportunities is TBD.

In regards to the Training Day feedback, yeah. We probably need a hard check for at least 1 if not 2 liquor items. Whoops

Normally, I would agree with you (I understand why you can't have sexual intercourse with Ashley and Madison in the same playthrough because they are rivals and by doing one of their quests you lock out the other one) but since Ashley and Rachael/Vickie are not rivals and Vickie is an essential part of completing Military Precision (there is also no warning that you might get locked out of Ashley quest if you do the Dare Interference questline), I hope you and the devs would reconsider. You could still lock the player out of the Training Day quest (as alternative for Dare Interference) but let Vickie come to the party by talking to Rachael (or remove Derek's line implying this and provide ample warning) and handle her part in the Military Precision questline.

I know how difficult it is to ensure that every quest can work on their own without influences from other quests (I've made quest mods for other games myself). But the game as it stands can easily be broken (quests can't be completed but are not failed either).

[erasmus]

Well, there's really nothing stopping an Ashley and Madison hookup in one playthrough either, theoretically. IF we had the mechanics and story content in place, would it really be so unimaginable to go the conversation route ("Smooth Operator") with Ashley and get intimate, and then "make up" (think a "Redemption" for Madison since you spilled beer on her) with Madison and humiliate Ashley for an ending with Madison? There's ways around everything, with the right story and programming. Sometimes we'll just have to draw hard lines in terms of time, or to prevent devolving into a story sequence that's just straight up ridiculous. Or, should I say, "more ridiculous".

"You could still lock the player out of the Training Day quest (as alternative for Dare Interference) but let Vickie come to the party by talking to Rachael" this is what I was referring to what I said "partial story completion" in my previous post. That's somewhat similar to a variety of story integration ideas we are working with. Half-step/compromises, a few common sense tweaks (again like, "how would they know the player did XYZ if they were unconscious or outside?"), and some new story filler to bridge gaps.

[FlirtAndPlay]

The "fix" that is needed in this issue and others is that: when a quest can no longer be completed, then it needs to say failed so that the Player doesn't run around for hours trying to click on random items to spur hopefully new conversations that may or may not progress still-ongoing quests. In other words...if the opportunity has passed, then it needs to be listed as Failed.

[erasmus]

Originally posted by FlirtAndPlay:

The "fix" that is needed in this issue and others is that: when a quest can no longer be completed, then it needs to say failed so that the Player doesn't run around for hours trying to click on random items to spur hopefully new conversations that may or may not progress still-ongoing quests. In other words...if the opportunity has passed, then it needs to be listed as Failed.

This was addressed some time ago.
When Katherine is told to send a dare to Rachael, the Vickie Vixen opportunity is failed. If it somehow was not discovered prior to that point, its status as Failed prevents it from ever being started. The only thing the system does not do is tell a player that hasn't discovered Vickie's opportunity that they missed it, which is intended.

If there is a way this can be circumvented, we'd need exact steps demonstrating how to do so.