Memory tweak , + possible fix for nv crash in 1st post.

[TheHunter]

It started with March 2018 update and wasn't fixed for me ever since. The worst was with December update, even hotfix1.
*So at first I thought it was driver DSR, i then used ingame downsample, but no still crashed.
*Then I thought it was fps limiter fault, maybe gpu overloaded, no still crash.
*Then frames to render ahead, ok this had a big part, I use to have 2, switched to auto, then it crashed in matter of minutes. So I chaged that back to 2.

Now I set threaded optimization to auto instead of ON, and almost thought this is it, lasted good 1hr, before max 4-5matches @ ON, usually 1-3matches., but it still crashed eventually.. @ auto,



***So that said I think it is indeed this threaded optimization fault. I've set to OFF now.
***AND not play the game if you resue the system from sleep, otherwise it doesnt matter at all and it can crash within minutes, at least that's what I've experienced later..





One m8 with nvidia gpu 1070gtx uses off and never had any crashes, so that makes me think this is it.
I have 980TI.


I also had extra FS optimization off and what not, but that didn't do anything. I'm still keeping this FS opt, off though.

[TheHunter]

I didn't change anything yet. 2600mhz was old picture from last year.. lower 2400 is from atm.

I thought just out of your head what would be ideal based on those numbers above. I would then adjust accordingly.

I tried lower tfaw and it is stable at 24 @2400, but by few game benchmarks it had lower min fps. Idk about tRRD atm, I think I can do 6, it won't post at 5.. will have to check again.



I can make a print screen of my bios timings. And post a link to gallery if that helps more, would really appreciate it if you at least give me a quick memtweak or edit from those values above..

That said when I adjusted to get that 2600 I didnt touch iol and rtl either.. rtl raised to 47/48, other two think they were kept at 0-5.

[TheHunter]

It booted and I'm in windows atm - this is at default 2400

tWR 14 instead of default 16
tWCL 10 instead of 9
tFAW 24 instead of 37
tRRD 6 instead of 7

I see now it also auto changed tertiary
tRDWR to 9 instead of 10..


by 2600 I know this changed to 11 or even 12 and it is much slower this way.. I remember manually forcing this lower to have better read speeds :D, same by 2400 one time when I randomly tested lower secondary it changed those to 12 from 9/10..

[TheHunter]

Link to bios ram timings,
https://postimg.cc/gallery/v5s3hs5a/

2400 tweak mentioned above
https://i.postimg.cc/mZKSc9H5/ram-tweak-2400.png

Although now I also saw it raised one set of timings by third timings: tWRRD -dd and -dr, from 5-6 to 6-7.. is that still ok? other two by third remained the same tRDRD & tWRWR and ok, becuase these seemed to affect both read and write the most when I tested 2600 and it auto set them waaay to loose..

tRTL and tIOL remained the same according to AIDA64 and memtweakIT,
https://i.postimg.cc/mrdYT14V/t-RTL-t-IOL.png
so dimm1 43 | dimm2 44 and tIOL 5 by both populated dimms.


EDIT: hmm ok this runs worse now according to aida64 memory test
https://i.postimg.cc/WbPkLwrT/cachemem.png

both read and copy.. also latency took a small hit.. One time when i tested too low tFAW I saw similar effect will try higher tFAW now @ 28 instead 24.


Edit2: if I set tRRD to 5 and tWR to 13 it doesn't boot.. auto loop cycle and had to do a memory auto restore button (memok) on mobo.

tRRD 6 and tWR 13 also no go.. so I guess tWR 14 is the min it can do.

tRRD 5 is ok and boots in windows.


hmm well, this is still giving me lower score then default settings..
https://postimg.cc/gallery/dy23q2f2/

is that because of higher tWRRD -dd and -dr? At least that's what I suspect..

[DCR]

IF RTL/IOL remains the same, either thats wrong, motherboard doesnt adjust as it should - there's an history of bugs as this technology got developed, much like the case with HPET over the years going over several incarnations from it's early development at 32bit till split 32/64bit timers, till full blown native 64bit till today where it's been rendered pointless for most modern configurations - which is not what'll happen to this tho, just saying.
In any case if they remain the same, AND it'ts stable, it means you have more headroom to play with..
Do you have Dram clk period setting in bios? If so what is it set to? And what is the minimum and max possible for the motherboard? It may also have a different name so xD..
Forget read speed, focus on write, that is what will gain you the most. It's almost to the point u should sacrifice read speed to get faster write times, kinda.
Values as presented here looks ok. Have you tried maxxing out refresh interval? Just type in 999999999, and see what u get. Some mobos go to 32k some to 64k. If u can then lower Ref Cycle time as well, which is quite ok at 313 tho, you would see some latency improvements there. Doing these 2 tweaks is a voltage dependent setting, doesnt require much but it's measurable. Since you're already at 1.65v, assuming, you might get it for free.

Oh i see you do have dram clk period. Wonderful! You have it at auto i see.
Ok . Here's what u do. Set everything to auto.
everything. Well u can also just set the above mentioned ref cycle time etc to auto but. better all auto to make sure. but. Anyway:
And note down what u have for these REF values etc. Then experiment with Dram clk period till you figure out what auto setting really is. So you have a starting point.

This is the single most important thing u can do atm.

Nothing else matters. Forget everything else till this is crystal clear to you without doubt.
Once we know this we have control over bank to bank timings and ras to ras internal across the dimms, something like cas to cas or ras to ras delay etc. Ie these are things u could only see in Aida64 under motherboard/chipset.


For instance i run this value at 9, where 28 is maximum and 22 is default.
Basically, given enough voltage and stability, you can make a tRRD of 4 become in reality 3.
Yes sounds like garbage horse maneour but i've seen this myself.
This is most likely the culprit for your tRRD being stuck at 7.

It's no point in discussing any further at least till u get this done and I believe this should be more then sufficient help to get you going.

edit: You need to ideally set XMP profile as well to get the real value of dram clk period if the ram chips have xmp profile. Or any other kind of profile you might have. If this cannot be obtained by any other means you should contact manufacturer.

[TheHunter]

dram clk, yes I tweaked that in the past 9 seems to be OK here as well, to get lost speeds back, anything lower and it stops booting again, I think. And I think it auto sets it to either 10 or 11.



I played with that at first, but then I found out if I leave that alone and lower teritary timings some more >> tRDRD and tWRRD (to 4-6-6 and 4-7-7) I can get those speeds again and it acted more stable as well.

I edited my post one more time above, Im running tRRD at 5 atm, but tWR is stuck at 14, idk about 2600mhz atm (probably doubt it will do 14), will try to tweak 2400 first :)



RTL and IOL change, at least RTL, IOL stays the same.. I did try to lower this RTL to 41 and 42 in the past, I've read this also affected speed, but I think it wasn't stable anymore.


edit: yes I have XMP enabled profile #1, profile #2 is a bit different. When I auto tested between them I found #1 a bit snappier.


WIll try dram clk 9 now and keep teritary alone, also lower RTL to dimm1 to 41 and dimm2 to 42, if that helps.


Edit2; in bios atm this is xmp info.. hmm I see #2 has lower tRRD 6 by default

https://i.postimg.cc/Znftcczp/20190111-022111.jpg

Should I pick and tweak around that instead? Also for 2600 later?

[TheHunter]

Ok so I have to keep rtl (43 and 44) and iol (5) alone with dram clk 9 to be able to boot. Rest is the same atm trrd5, twcl10, trw14 and tfaw 28

Trfc is ok to around ~262., and yes I noticed it can lower memory overall latency e.g. aida64 but stability is the questionable so I just left it at 313.


Edit;
Hmm actually dram clk 9 now lowered trfc to 278 automatically. Also dram refresh from 93xx to 83xx. Oh and trdwr to 8 from 9.. I'm still at xmp#1

Will see what speeds I get now in windows. BUT I think it will be a lot better now :)

Hopefully it will go as smooth on 2600 as well :)

[DCR]

Actually dram clk period will adjust every timing you have on secondary and in some cases primary as well, if any setting is left to auto that is. You can not leave it on auto. In any case, I think you should go to some hardware forum then here for further advice ;) I have so much knowledge on this and i could just keep on answearing all your questions for weeks.
Dram clk period is the key to unlocking timings to their true potential.

[TheHunter]

Ok thanks for your help :) I also did a quick ninja edit2 above

Just one last thing, when I test 2600 I should also try to stick with dram clk 9? And just use xmp#1? And same with trrd, use 5 and twr 14, tfaw 28 if its stable? Only raise tcwl to11 since I have to use tcl 11


edit: wow @ 2400 I now have ram efficiency 39GB/s according to memtweakit
https://i.postimg.cc/sX6wH01j/wow.png

never seen it this high, even with 2600mhz and those 39GB/s in aida64, it also said ~ 36.7GB/s, So i guess this will really do some magic now :D

but aida64 still shows lower then usual
https://i.postimg.cc/500mzqgZ/cachemem-hmm.png

am I missing something? xD or just ignore this?

I'm suspecting this as the cause now

tWRRD -dd and -dr, from 5-6 to 6-7. Will try 5&6 if it's stable. It's the only thing that didnt change and could affect those aida64 speeds..

edit: almost, still not quite it.
https://i.postimg.cc/QNcRdjB1/cachemem-almost.png

will either try trrd 4 or first try if i can get dram clk 8.

Anyway thanks, now I know what to look for to test some more. :)

[DCR]

Look. I have world records on this topic. Im not going to sit here and answear every question, this is why i quit working as a Tech ;)
You're weeks away from getting the final end result since you will require lots of testing.
You need to slow down what you're doing right now and just copy pasting the 9 figure i have on dram clk period. You may find you can do 7 or 3 or even 1. Syntetic benchmarks are just that, imaginary numbers. You need to get real results.
xmp profiles are usually split between pure multiplier and clk bus speeds. I cant answear this since i dont know what ur xmp profiles are.

[TheHunter]

Sorry I understand, yes I posted xmp above

https://i.postimg.cc/Znftcczp/20190111-022111.jpg


And dram clk is ok at 8 too and it lowered trfc, dram refresh further. Memteakit now shows 41gb/s.. quite a steep up from 36.6gb/s
https://i.postimg.cc/Yq6GRLv0/dram-clk8.png

I did so much testing in the past that it was enough not to see any difference then I quit and left it at default - since this showed the best aida64 memory speeds.. and I apparently tweaked wrong settings and it was more unstable then not.


Lol and yet it still shows no change in aida64.. weird..

https://i.postimg.cc/QNcRdjB1/cachemem-almost.png


Will test some more later, thanks again for all your help.

[TheHunter]

Ok this turned out to be memory tweaking thread. Sorry all :D

anyway @ DCR, just small heads up

dram clk @ 7 is what I use get in aida64 memory, with much better memoryTweakIt output namely now its 42.5GB/s vs originally 36.6GB/s

https://postimg.cc/gallery/2hxadlgvy/

I also reverted to auto tWRRD -dd & -dr >>> 6-7, iol at 4 doesn't post, so i have to keep rtl and iol alone.

Think I will go from here on alone, thanks again :)

[DCR]

Your welcome. The thing about ram timings and other bios things in relation is that it is very specific. There are thousands of memory kits, split across ddr-1,2,3,4 and maybe ddr5 in 2020. And there is significant differences between manufacturers products, ie hyenix vs samsung huge differences in some timings. So it is not that you have to do it alone, but it is *necessary*.
It is necessary because you are the one using the pc and needs to understand how this behaves in relation to other timings for the kit. There's no such thing as a cheat sheet for this that is just to copy at will. And that is especially strengthened by cpu and memory controller. some timings are especially in relation to that, and so they will fail without enough voltage to cpu/imc etc. But again, there's also such a thing as too much voltage, static buildup over time on aged components will eventually always become a thing, unless ungodly good cooling..
The main thing to recognize is to do constant tests for performance to see if this change yields benefit and if so is it stable etc and what will it take.
It is a very arduous, strenous process that simply takes a lot of time.
If you can manually lower tRC you should also try to do that as well as a main priority.
A 5.9GB/s increase is already pretty good. I expect you could hit perhaps nearly twice that depending on how far u want to stretch it.
edit: Lastly use aida64 for fun and info on components, dont use it to measure performance for ram.

[TheHunter]

Yes I understand now more :)

Also dram clk 7 is the lowest as it can go, same for trrd 4-5 and twr 14, twlc 9 can still post etc, but I'll keep at 10 like you suggested.

Will see what's up with 2600mhz today. Guess I will have to go with dram clk 8-9, trrd 6-8, twr 15-16 and twlc11. Hopefully that will do the trick

[DCR]

Not correct. There is no problem getting dram clk period to run at 1. I will say this as simple as possible : This is a give and take situation. If you demand dram clk period 1, be prepared to pay for it. More voltage, more cooling, super tight read/write across the board. Active cooling of motherboard will be a absolute must. I have several fans dedicated to motherboard alone, and even under the motherboard.
This is serious business yo ;)

https://imgur.com/rbXtyND and https://imgur.com/dOBc5HI

Im going to rebuild the bottom and backside, but the steel i need is a lot easier to deal with when it isn't so cold outside. I considererd drilling holes for fans on sides, but tbh it isn't necessary. I dont care how it looks just performance.

[TheHunter]

that's some crazy cooling :D


Ok I dived into 2600MHz teriotry. Long story short
CL11-14-13-38-1T; tWCL 11, tWR 16, tRRD 11, dram clk 10. Still @ 1.65V.
atm ram feels cold to touch.


Anything bellow that; e.g. lower dram clk random freezes, or bsod memory managenet and bsod system exception. tWR 15 no go, boot loop.


This atm seems somewhat stable, enough that Im able to write this, and ran aida64 memory bench and cpuz benchmark.

My adventure so far
https://postimg.cc/gallery/pfc0agxq/

any quick tips if I can make it better?

Im thinking maybe tRRD 10 or 9? atm at 11, or main 11-13-13, instead of 11-14-13, I just raised that to 14, I've read a bit it can help by higher ram OC.

I already have a bit higher cpu system agent offset, not too much, but I think it's ok for now (0,070+ offset), higher 4.7GHz cpu needs more though, atm still at 4.6GHz.

Originally posted by DCR:

Not correct. There is no problem getting dram clk period to run at 1. I will say this as simple as possible : This is a give and take situation. If you demand dram clk period 1, be prepared to pay for it. More voltage, more cooling, super tight read/write across the board. Active cooling of motherboard will be a absolute must. I have several fans dedicated to motherboard alone, and even under the motherboard.
This is serious business yo ;)

https://imgur.com/rbXtyND and https://imgur.com/dOBc5HI

Im going to rebuild the bottom and backside, but the steel i need is a lot easier to deal with when it isn't so cold outside. I considererd drilling holes for fans on sides, but tbh it isn't necessary. I dont care how it looks just performance.

EDIT: it still didnt freeze or crash or hang just yet, even in idle and I just downloaded RE2 remake demo. guess this last attempt is ok for now. Them numbers I mentioned above. LAtency is tiny bit worse then at 2400MHZ, 44 - 44.5ns vs 42.5ns.