Will id Software shut down because of this?

[PootisMayo]

Every time I see the name of this Quake revival, I begin to feel sorry for them, and all the players who got their hands on it. Then I begin to wonder if the company will shut down thanks to this rusty mess. Imagine if everyone began review bombing this thing by now.

Saber Interactive is why this game is terrible overall, yet somehow, not many players even saw this as a central issue to the game? If you think id will never get rid of Saber, you are sorely mistaken.

What else do you want me to say? If you think QC is not retro enough, perhaps you could get your hands on DUSK.

[Allah]

ID software has been having issues for a while now.
Doom 3 sucked,
Quake Wars Enemy Territory sucked.
Rage sucked.
The Wolfenstein games sucked except for the New Order which wasn't made by ID.

Really the only thing the studio has going for it is the IPs. QC is fun, but the core design behind it is from John Romero's work 20 years ago.

Doom 4 was great SP, but Bethesda screwed it all up by giving the game a short life-span with no mod support.

ID is a small studio which has talented game engine programmers, they will likely continue to exist, even if only as a engine developer for games licensed out, while ID works on sparsely released titles.

Thing is, QC won't kill ID, because QC is not a ID game. It's a Saber Interactive game.
Will QC kill the relationship between Bethesda and Saber Interactive?

Judging that Saber Interactive has never repeated business with a co-developer or publisher, with games that turned out better and had better support than QC did, that seems very probable.

It's true that ID like to form stable relationships for co-developement.

But Saber Interactive is like boisterous party-guy alcoholic who only seems to develop fleeting relationships for the express purpose of finding new ways to run them into the ground.

[PootisMayo]

Maybe. You do have some good points there.

[MyLittleJohny]

I wonder where you got it's Sabers problem :D Anyways, the problem mainly is not how the game works, the biggest issue is how the game feels. We've got much worse games with much more technical problems, which were successful. But the overal fun and feeling is always what kills the game. And this entirely goes to Bethesda.

BTW welcome back, grip :D

[Allah]

Originally posted by Blup afk:

not a single one of you who keeps ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about saber devs has any clue if it actually is sabers' fault for the current issues.

but please, don't let me interrupt your circle jerk of "facts"

Cool.
A Saber Developer perhaps?
Nice to meet you!
After all, you don't have so much as a forum for anybody else to comment or give feed back in.

If your not, then you know just as much as us.

Here is what we know from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saber_Interactive

They don't create sustained development or publisher relationship, this despite their claims at cost effectiveness and capability.

Originally posted by OrcusDei:

I wonder where you got it's Sabers problem :D Anyways, the problem mainly is not how the game works, the biggest issue is how the game feels. We've got much worse games with much more technical problems, which were successful. But the overal fun and feeling is always what kills the game. And this entirely goes to Bethesda.

BTW welcome back, grip :D

Good to see you OrcusDei :Thumbsup:

The reason I put the blame on Saber is because the technical issues are the reasons the game has suffered. Their artistic ability is very good. The rendering itself looks very good.

The problem is the junk under the hood.

This isn't even a new problem isolated QC.
The junk engine workings have cause problems in their previous games.

This is the reason for consistent stuttering problems, phantom jump problems, crashing, etc.
It's not just that these problems exists, but that the issues are tied to the code base the game is built on.

Fixing it is like building a house on sand near the Tide. Then constantly patching things up around the house because you are now unable to fix the base.
Like a shack that has boards pushing against it from all direction to keep it from collapsing.

It is true these aren't the only reasons the game has suffered, but as you can tell by the forum complaints, it is the main reason.

I am fully convinced, that if this game were developed on Unreal Engine 4 by the former Painkiller team in Poland, not all that different in world-region and cost effectiveness, we would have a much better game.

[Quadsword]

I doubt Id Software would shut down over this, but I strongly doubt Bethesda or Id will ever work with Saber again on any future projects.

[Allah]

Originally posted by Blup afk:

oh look more ♥♥♥♥ you're just sucking out of your thumb:

We don't know the way internal communication works.
We don't know how much if propietary engine work, how much has been passed to Saber interactive in terms of foundation work, and how much is saber specific.
We don't know the split in terms of in-house programmers vs outsourced programmers in the form of saber interactive.
We don't know the general split full stop on all of the production
We don't know the deadlines
We don't know the QA system in place

But please, continue sharing your internet wisdom with us.

We know that they were contracted to be a co-developer of the project, and that the engine *is* Saber3D, not ID Tech 6.

We know Saber Interactive do the programming and artistic work. That ID software is operating in a "directional" and very limited Q/A capacity, as stated in previous interviews.



Now when the game engine is a proprietary engine by another developer, in another language, in another continent, why the hell would we assume ID has anything to do with the programming?

Did ID software all of a sudden, go from being experts in OpenGL to experts in DirectX 9, learn how to program in Saber3D from from the note in the source code written in Russian?

You need to prove that Saber Interactive isn't the reason for all the problems running on Saber3D if you want to make that claim.

We don't need to know the nitty gritty of the details to have a general idea of the picture from the information available.

Also, it isn't as if a free-to-play multiplayer title developed by Saber Interactive didn't already crash, burn and fail.
It was called Halo Online.
A game that Microsoft gave Saber Interactive five separate extensions to get the game to a reasonable Q/A standard. They couldn't do it, so Microsoft pulled the plug.

That aborted code and business model found it's way into QC, and it is the reason the same problems they were having with Halo Online then, are the same problems happening with QC now.
Stuttering. Crashing. Phantom inputs.

Saber got their **** canned and so they peddled it off to another sucker.
That's all that happened.

[♥samantha♥]

Originally posted by 22 DeathGrip:

Originally posted by Blup afk:

not a single one of you who keeps ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about saber devs has any clue if it actually is sabers' fault for the current issues.

but please, don't let me interrupt your circle jerk of "facts"

Cool.
A Saber Developer perhaps?
Nice to meet you!
After all, you don't have so much as a forum for anybody else to comment or give feed back in.

If your not, then you know just as much as us.

Here is what we know from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saber_Interactive

They don't create sustained development or publisher relationship, this despite their claims at cost effectiveness and capability.

Originally posted by OrcusDei:

I wonder where you got it's Sabers problem :D Anyways, the problem mainly is not how the game works, the biggest issue is how the game feels. We've got much worse games with much more technical problems, which were successful. But the overal fun and feeling is always what kills the game. And this entirely goes to Bethesda.

BTW welcome back, grip :D

Good to see you OrcusDei :Thumbsup:

The reason I put the blame on Saber is because the technical issues are the reasons the game has suffered. Their artistic ability is very good. The rendering itself looks very good.

The problem is the junk under the hood.

This isn't even a new problem isolated QC.
The junk engine workings have cause problems in their previous games.

This is the reason for consistent stuttering problems, phantom jump problems, crashing, etc.
It's not just that these problems exists, but that the issues are tied to the code base the game is built on.

Fixing it is like building a house on sand near the Tide. Then constantly patching things up around the house because you are now unable to fix the base.
Like a shack that has boards pushing against it from all direction to keep it from collapsing.

It is true these aren't the only reasons the game has suffered, but as you can tell by the forum complaints, it is the main reason.

I am fully convinced, that if this game were developed on Unreal Engine 4 by the former Painkiller team in Poland, not all that different in world-region and cost effectiveness, we would have a much better game.

Well come back 22 DeathGrip, no wonder the QC forums seemed a bit quiet.

:spit: How dare you suggest they should have used the Ureal Engine. Quake and Unreal doesnt go hand in hand. :)

[Allah]

Originally posted by ♥samantha♥:

Well come back 22 DeathGrip, no wonder the QC forums seemed a bit quiet.

:spit: How dare you suggest they should have used the Ureal Engine. Quake and Unreal doesnt go hand in hand. :)

Good to see you Samatha. :)
Quake, Unreal, we are all AFPS refugees sailing together seeking greener pastures.
Or at least a boat without water up to our ankles.

[Captain n00by]

While I think it was better when they were still a indie dev that could pick their publisher freeley, I do not think Zenimax are thinking of cutting them off just yet. Their IPs are too valuable for one. Also, regardless of what you think of Zenimax, they might have secured themselves this way from hostile takeovers. Would you rather like id under, say, EA or MS? I'm not sure that would pan out all too well. Neither under modern-day Activision.

[Zaxx]

I really don't think this game can destroy id Software, hell, even if it ends up as a giant flop it won't even be enough to tarnish their name simply because the problems QC have are not in id's character so to speak. Everyone will blame Saber and really compared to other id IPs QC is just a small side project.

Remember, this company could power through RAGE, a thoroughly mediocre game that could hurt a developer really bad yet they are still here and Doom 2016 was excellent.

[Allah]

Originally posted by Zaxx:

Remember, this company could power through RAGE, a thoroughly mediocre game that could hurt a developer really bad yet they are still here and Doom 2016 was excellent.

There were a lot of lay-offs after Rage though, and a lot of good people at that.

What they need is to get John Romero back in the office. John Carmack kicked him out, now that John Carmack is gone, ID should try to get John Romero back in the office.

He has (in all likeliness) left that problematic rock-start attitude behind him.
In his interviews he doesn't have that pre-LawBreakers CliffyB attitude.

[Zaxx]

Originally posted by 22 DeathGrip:

Originally posted by Zaxx:

Remember, this company could power through RAGE, a thoroughly mediocre game that could hurt a developer really bad yet they are still here and Doom 2016 was excellent.

There were a lot of lay-offs after Rage though, and a lot of good people at that.

That was because back in the day id separated into two larger teams, one handling RAGE while the other working on the original Doom 4. RAGE was a flop and by the end of its development Bethesda took over the company so a restructurization was in order. To put it simply Bethesda had to integrate id to its ecosystem with MachineGames and Arkane but I don't think the end result was a smaller / regressed studio, at least it doesn't seem like that now. The old blood got rid of, the new blood came in.

What they need is to get John Romero back in the office.

I love Romero but that ship has sailed: Romero does not want anything to do with AAA game development and he knows nothing about the current AAA landscape + auteurism is not something that is super relevant (or possible except for a select few like Kojima) in today's AAA market so there is very little he could add to the company. What Romero needs is a cool ass indie FPS where could show off what he does best.

[Allah]

Originally posted by Zaxx:

That was because back in the day id separated into two larger teams, one handling RAGE while the other working on the original Doom 4. RAGE was a flop and by the end of its development Bethesda took over the company so a restructurization was in order. To put it simply Bethesda had to integrate id to its ecosystem with MachineGames and Arkane but I don't think the end result was a smaller / regressed studio, at least it doesn't seem like that now. The old blood got rid of, the new blood came in.

I love Romero but that ship has sailed: Romero does not want anything to do with AAA game development and he knows nothing about the current AAA landscape + auteurism is not something that is super relevant (or possible except for a select few like Kojima) in today's AAA market so there is very little he could add to the company. What Romero needs is a cool ass indie FPS where could show off what he does best.

About the layoffs.... whatever happened to the captain goes down with the ship?

It is a joke that the game was in development for so long, and nobody in the higher level of management said, "hold it, this **** isn't any fun".

RAGE as a game should never have even existed. The same way Doom 3 should never have existed as it was.

They should have focused on arcade-ish, over--the--top action SP and MP games.
Not trying to make horror games or mad max RPG/FPS hybrids.

RAGE and Doom 4 were both botched titles, which is why one was a failure, and the other was rebooted. Entirely the fault of upper management though.

I don't know if its the fault of Tim Willits or whoever, but ID made a big mistake going out the area of arcade shooting action that made it the company that it was.

[Quadsword]

Originally posted by 22 DeathGrip:

About the layoffs.... whatever happened to the captain goes down with the ship?

It is a joke that the game was in development for so long, and nobody in the higher level of management said, "hold it, this **** isn't any fun".

RAGE as a game should never have even existed. The same way Doom 3 should never have existed as it was.

They should have focused on arcade-ish, over--the--top action SP and MP games.
Not trying to make horror games or mad max RPG/FPS hybrids.

RAGE and Doom 4 were both botched titles, which is why one was a failure, and the other was rebooted. Entirely the fault of upper management though.

I don't know if its the fault of Tim Willits or whoever, but ID made a big mistake going out the area of arcade shooting action that made it the company that it was.

That could be applied to just about anything, really. Someone shoplifts from a Walmart, all the sales associates get their hours cut while nothing happens to the upper management. Corporation finds itself in financial hot water, the employees at the bottom of the totem pole get their pay cut or laid off altogether while the CEO is still taking home checks to the tune of $10 million. Incompetent / greedy CEO tanks his company, he gets a severance package for tens of millions of dollars and never has to work another day in his life. That'll learn ya!

I think Id's decision to stop making arcade shooters was largely born out of the popularity of games like Half-Life. They probably thought an arcade shooter wouldn't sell and tried to do slower, 'cinematic' shooters, which lead to 10+ years of mediocrity from the company before they finally realized "Y'know, maybe we should just stick to what we're good at instead of trying to follow popular trends".

[Tayzor Azul]

Why should ID shut down for something they did not developed ?
Last I checked Saber is developing Quake Champions.
If its anyone that should shut down its Saber.