This vs shadow tactics

[A Little Rat Boy]

both games are really good but which in your opinion is better and why?

[Cougarific]

I enjoyed this thread the first 5 times it was created.

Try using the Search Discussions box.

[Harag]

Originally posted by Memearu:

both games are really good but which in your opinion is better and why?

If you like this style of game, buy shadows while it's on sale, if you still like it, buy this in the December sales

Win Win

[Debosy]

I have a little better fun with Desperados 3. But both are awesome.

[Wormerine]

Well, Desperados3 is Shadow Tactics and then some. Nothing was removed and some things were added, with overall bigger and better designed levels.

I did like the setting and characters of Blades of Shogun more.

[Freshmeat]

Levels: Shadow Tactics’ levels were incredibly memorable and were just one good idea after another, as well as being more visually appealing. But Desperados isn’t far behind (especially the swamp/jungle levels in Louisiana and all of Mexico) and the levels were designed better mechanically. By that I mean more options and alternate objectives, better guard placement, increased focus on high and low ground, etc. It’s clear the devs were more experienced making a solid level by the time they were making Desperados.

Characters: The characters are pretty close in my book. The Desperados team talk more, which does wonders to flesh out their personality, but the ones in Shadow Tactics have some really good voice acting, as well a more believable team dynamic. Slight edge to Shadow Tactics.

Mechanically, the Desperados team is far superior though. McCoy is a flat-out better take on the sniper concept than Takuma, who was always held back by his lack of a melee takedown, inability to drag corpses and his slow and loud movement speed. In a world with far more guards, McCoy’s snipe and lure also sees more play. I actually use McCoy a lot, whereas Takuma rarely ever contributed more than one or two snipe shots per level.

The same goes for Yuki and Hector. In Shadow Tactics, missions often turned into the Yuki show because she had her ninja mobility, an excellent lure and a crouch drag. In Desperados they toned that down by removing the trapper’s drag and especially the mobility (but by giving him the strength to take down longcoats). It works much better in my opinion.

I also like how they made guns more viable and useful. I rarely needed to use the ST handguns, but in Desperados the guns do come out from time to time. In practice, it feels like the Desperados team has an extra ability to play with.

And let’s not forget Isabelle either - probably the most mechanically interesting character in this entire genre. Some missions do turn into the Isabelle show, but at least her kit is more fun to use than Yuki, which was a bit too much lure-kill-lure-kill-repeat to my liking.

Story: Shadow Tactics. Both games do it pretty well, but ST had a more logical progression where nearly everything you did advanced the plot. Several missions in Desperados kind of feel like side quests (Flagstone, Baton Rouge, the entire Wayne subplot). Desperados presents its story better, but nothing ever reaches as high as Mugen’s excellent story arc in Shadow Tactics.

Difficulty: I played both games on Hard, going for every challenge (bar the speedrun ones) and I found Desperados noticably more difficult. In Desperados there are far more guards around, they are placed in better spots, and even the vulnerable basic guards are often nestled deep within multiple layers of overlooking ponchos and longcoats. This holds especially true if you’re going for challenges on top of that.

Soundtrack: both are good, but I prefer Shadow Tactics. There were a lot more tracks that nailed the feeling of cautious and determined decision-making as you sneak atop rooftops and plan your next move.
The tracks in Desperados are sometimes a little too jaunty or high-tempo, and don’t always fit the theme of carefully and methodically working your way through a web of guards.
Desperados fits the story better, but Shadow Tactics fits the gameplay better.

TL;DR: Shadow Tactics wins in most categories, but Desperados is still a clear improvement in terms of mechanics (character abilities & level design).

[Leurfe]

Do you prefer this or Shadow Tactics?

I just finished the main story and even if I enjoyed it overall I can't help but think this is a step back from Shadow Tactics, my reasons:

1. Feels more linear: I felt I was constantly forced down on one of the two paths available, while ST gave more freedom on where to go
2. Some skills feel useless, for instance while Yuki trap felt a reliable option to pick out guards Hector trap seems like something I used 5 or 6 times the whole game because of number 3
3. That guard that is being watched by that guard that is being watched by that guard that is being watched by that guard that is being watched by that guard at the other side of the map, ST was like solving a small puzzle at a time, this one was frustrating at times
4. The ending was super anticlimatic
5. Knocking out is the same as killing basically, so you don't get any more difficulty for being merciful

Brilliant game nonetheless, but I enjoyed ST more, what about you?

[Maraxus]

Haven't played ST yet but regarding number 5... having some guards tied up(and alive) is useful to lure out ponchos(and perhaps long coats?) out of their positions(correct me if I am wrong but that's the only way to do that without raising alarm) for a safe takedown(which kind of helps with number 3). :) about number 2.... I found the trap much better to take out guards that required to be killed in a precise spot rather than using say wasting a bullet or using a melee attack that can become messy and require a reload. The story was serviceable but then again my expectations were coming from commandos that was basically commandos execute a successful mission once again lol. Anyway will try ST later and see if that changes my mind. Some situations did feel a bit railroad-y at first but after trying the challenge missions, the restrictions in some of those missions made me I realize some characters have more ways to do stuff... for example I didn't realize that hector can clear entire rooms just by using his ax and juking the ♥♥♥♥ out of the enemies then healing and repeat xD

[sethmage]

both games are wonderful, both games i have 100% achievements completion rate, so the question seems simple yet it's hard to answer...

at least for me it comes down to Aiko vs Kate... and Aiko wins, why you ask? simple, she can kill, her disguise is gone when she as much as crouch, making more difficult to hide from samurais.

as to your points
1. i didn't feel this way as i loved to explore with different characters and i was forced to use different tactics
2. i think think this is player preference, in some levels i didn't use even once a perfume, cat, or Kate for that matter
3. those games are like onions, lots of layers, (not shrek reference :)) but one quick coin toss, mind control, Kate's distraction or shadow mode and i love how plan comes together
4. yeah, i didn't like the ending for different reasons
5. i'd say going for no kill have this extra challenge and planning, plus as Maraxus pointed out, you can exploit the tied up goon because even longcoats will leave their posts/routes to investigate


my question to developers would be: why longcoats go and investigate footprints and ponchos say: not their job? who's job is it longcoats'? lol

[Leurfe]

First off thanks for the replies!

Originally posted by Maraxus:

Haven't played ST yet but regarding number 5... having some guards tied up(and alive) is useful to lure out ponchos(and perhaps long coats?) out of their positions(correct me if I am wrong but that's the only way to do that without raising alarm) for a safe takedown(which kind of helps with number 3). :)

Oh that's right! I guess I haven't really used that tactic, just a few times I lured some guards under a rock hazard by making one faint under the rock w isabelle mind control

Originally posted by Maraxus:

about number 2.... I found the trap much better to take out guards that required to be killed in a precise spot rather than using say wasting a bullet or using a melee attack that can become messy and require a reload.

I see, however I still feel that it's kinda sketchy, because there are really few situations where you can lure someone out safely to proceed, most of the time is -as you said- killing them in a precise blind spot, just to be able to take out more guards though, I usually try to take out the least possible guards from the scenario because it feels unrealistic that they just disappear one by one and no one notices

Originally posted by Maraxus:

Some situations did feel a bit railroad-y at first but after trying the challenge missions, the restrictions in some of those missions made me I realize some characters have more ways to do stuff... for example I didn't realize that hector can clear entire rooms just by using his ax and juking the ♥♥♥♥ out of the enemies then healing and repeat xD

I got a bit annoyed in the new orleans missions where every path was conveniently blocked by roadblocks!

Anyway as I said I only finished the main story, i'll go over the missions again trying to get the medals and see if something changes with your advice :)

Originally posted by sethmage:

at least for me it comes down to Aiko vs Kate... and Aiko wins, why you ask? simple, she can kill, her disguise is gone when she as much as crouch, making more difficult to hide from samurais.

I wouldn't have asked why, I like Aiko more as well xD

Originally posted by sethmage:

as to your points
1. i didn't feel this way as i loved to explore with different characters and i was forced to use different tactics

I have only played once for now, so I'll go over it again, and see if I change my mind, some situations ARE too linear though (not all of them luckily)

Originally posted by sethmage:

4. yeah, i didn't like the ending for different reasons

Can you elaborate?

Originally posted by sethmage:

my question to developers would be: why longcoats go and investigate footprints and ponchos say: not their job? who's job is it longcoats'? lol

I guess because ponchos are stationary guards, so their orders are to not leave their spots no matter what, while longcoats do move and are in charge, so they can decide whether to investigate or not (and they decide to do it ahah)

[Grossout]

1-I don't remember how it was in shadow tactics but didn't really bother me at all, my play style is to kill every single living creature any way so I had not even noticed if the levels are linear :DD

2-Yeah there are few quite useless skills if you ask me, parfume blinding enemies sucked in shadow tactics and is the worst skill in here too IMO. I never use it unless forced. Hectors trap is not as useful as in ST but still quite good

3- I really feel this game is tons of harder than shadow tactics because of that, there are so many moving parts that I feel I had to save scum way more. I actually broke my keyboard when I was so enraged by one certain situation :D Shadow tactics didn't make me rage that much but I am constantly swearing with this game :DD Also I feel like total idiot when I had to smash that quick load button constantly, I wish there was some kinda rewnding backwards feature x)

4- I dunno not at the end yet

5- I wanna kill everything, every civilian, every guard and every dog

[sethmage]

Originally posted by Leurfe:

Originally posted by sethmage:

4. yeah, i didn't like the ending for different reasons

Can you elaborate?

from my thread no honour among thieves

I was a little disappointed when John shot Frank, he was bleeding to death without a gun in his hand, I know I know he killed his father and all...still...this was execution, I don't think his character would do this way... I would make Kate shot him :).

[Leurfe]

Originally posted by sethmage:

Originally posted by Leurfe:

Can you elaborate?

from my thread no honour among thieves

I was a little disappointed when John shot Frank, he was bleeding to death without a gun in his hand, I know I know he killed his father and all...still...this was execution, I don't think his character would do this way... I would make Kate shot him :).

Oh I actually read this comment, didn't notice it was you! I see... I didn't find anything wrong with that anyway, maybe they could have let him die by bleeding out