How is everyone finding the difficulty compared to Shadow Tactics?

[^_^]

I'm way too early in the game to make a full opinion but i definitely remember Shadow Tactics having scenarios that looked impossible to get through at first even in the first levels.

[Lord Dem]

They do get harder as you move along although if you combine characters for takedowns makes the gameplay very intuitive. I think you will be very pleased by the end. I kinda like that the first levels are new player friendly to the genre.

[Wormerine]

I think the reason players are finding D3 easier I that most of character kits were moved over from ST. If you mastered ST, D3 won't shake up your play.

They also introduced "footprint" mechanic later in the game. I felt that the first snow level in ST had the steepest learning curve, due to removing Hayato from the roster and introducing what I think is the most dangerous environmental gimmick.

[MMOtte]

The game feels very manageable on Normal, compared to Hard which I mostly play. And beginner is still more merciful. Also, Beginner (and also probably Normal) has overall fewer enemies, which sometimes makes all the difference, even if you didn't have the slower enemy AI.

The lower difficulties still require a plan, but is easier both in 1) the plan doesn't have to be as foolproof 2) you get more leeway on the execution.

[Ftee]

I´m in the end of mission six, and it feels not that hard in level "normal". The characters feels kind of overpowered, and sometimes i forgot some special moves, because i dont need them.
I think, i will play it on level "hard" the next time.

Compared to Shadow Tactics, it feels quite easy to manage. The Showdown Mode is a bit buggy, but still much more powerful than the Shadow Mode.
Cooper, with two guns and a knife he coould throw, can takeout three enemies at a time on his own. Still sitting in a bush. This in combination with Kate, when she pulls away another one, is too easy. I hope its getting more complicated the next missions...

But, after all, a great game. My first full-price game for over 20 years, and its worth it.
(Even with the western style. I dont linke western very much.)

[BOT Cecil]

It can still be challenging. First time i saw the bridge mission i was like "how the f*&£ am i gonna do this?" Patience wi get you through.

[Krag]

On Desperados difficulty it feels much harder than ST

[Aristocratic Cthulhu]

Desperados difficulty is the only way to play this game, with the ammo availability tweaked to your liking.

[Wormerine]

Originally posted by Aristocratic Cthulhu:

Desperados difficulty is the only way to play this game, with the ammo availability tweaked to your liking.

I don't like it actually. For one they need to fix real time Showdown, but also detection range is too much imo. This is esspecially true with little annoying quircks like your units standing up after carrying a body.

[baddude1337]

I'm finding it a bit easier, though I was a few years out of practice of this type of game when I first played Shadow Tactics.

[MMOtte]

Originally posted by Sl1ngShot:

It can still be challenging. First time i saw the bridge mission i was like "how the f*&£ am i gonna do this?" Patience wi get you through.

My favorite moments of the game are literally this, where you just have to stare at viewcones and patrol patterns for 5-10 minutes before you finally spot a way to get past it!

[Kami]

Definitely much harder than ST. Finished the game on Desperado difficulty for first playthrough - averaged 3 hours per mission versus 1.5 hours per mission in ST on Hardcore.

The number one reason Desperados 3 is much more difficult is that you're required to stealth but you're not given a lot of stealth tools.

• Guns have massive sound radius and have limited ammunition
  
• You have no way to do stealth takedowns from doors or bushes
  
• Getting a disguise is awkward in many cases (usually protected by multiple overlapping enemies and long coats)
  
• There's no sound 'cover' like in ST where you can make noise without being detected
  
• The environment is harsher since it frequently funnels you into overlapping cones which require you to find a very specific weakpoint to exploit that's usually on the opposite side of the area you're trying to get through (especially the last mission).

The characters in ST would easily takedown the Desperado 3 gang given their skill-sets.

That being said, Desperados 3 is a fantastic game and some of the new mechanics are absolutely awesome (like one of the female characters you get later in the game; without spoiling too much).

[Cpt. Hindsight]

I just finished the game on hard difficulty and from chapter 2 onward I found most levels pretty challenging

[Mr. No_Effs_Given]

So far completed 12 levels, the last one i beat was definitely the most annoying. It took me a very good while to figure the best approach, the enemy position was challenging, felt so good when i finally killed an annoying Pancho though. Currently i played a bit of the 13th mission, and so far its much easier, playing on hard btw. But even so, nothing overly difficulty, and i consider myself a beginner at this genre, played Shadow Tactics though, so that helped i guess.

[CrUsHeR]

Been a while since Shadow Tactics, so i started re-playing that yesterday to get a better comparison. At first look the games appear identical, but there are very fundamental differences:

1) D3 has guns, ammo pickups, and unlimited healing (Hector and Isabelle) - this makes a HUGE difference in your options how to solve any situation

2) Controls and pathfinding in D3 - while not perfect - are a lot better and more refined. Characters will automatically find the shortest way across ladders, doors and such. Which makes it a lot easier to control several characters in parallel or simultaneously.

3) Showdown / Shadow Mode - having the game paused to queue commands is more precise and forgiving, in particular if you don't have the APM of a Starcraft Pro

4) Amount of enemies - only finished Normal in D3 so far, but it felt like they tried to cram as many guards and patrols as anyhow possible into most areas. There are very few "relax" moments in the game flow, where you could pick off 2-3 obvious targets.
However, see point 1 - if you use your guns, you can significantly cut down the analysis and execution time. In particular McCoy and Kate have less gun noise radius than Cooper's knife.

5) Tie 'em up - the ability to pacify both enemies and civilians permanently and non-lethally by knocking them out and tying them up is a complete gamechanger.
Not only that, but you can safely use the tied up NPCs as bait to lure Ponchos and Long Coats off their posts.

6) Timing and fast-forward - Some patrols in Shadow Tactics take like 1 minute or more for their paths. Nothing in D3 seems anywhere near that long. And you also got the fast-forward key as a massive QOL improvement, so if you missed an opportunity it won't take long before you get another chance.


TLDR: More enemies and more difficult situations in D3, but also better options and controls to handle them.

[CrUsHeR]

Originally posted by Zak-Del:

i consider myself a beginner at this genre, played Shadow Tactics though, so that helped i guess.

How many games does this genre have, though?

Commandos, Desperados, Shadow Tactics, and now Desperados 3.
Some people call it RTS but it's definitely not that. Others say RTT, but i think this term was used for some games like Company of Heroes which is also a very niche genre and completely different from the Commandos formula.

Perhaps it needs its own genre, the "Commando-Like" ?