Dante's weapon switching is unnecessarily clumsy

[Wormerine]

First of all, hi, I am a first time DMC player.

Dante as a character has so much potential, but I feel his kit is rather messy - I assume he's been built upon through multiple entries in the series, and that's why his design isn't very... elegant.

Still, I feel the way one switches between weapons could be better. I wish we could select weapons with directional buttons - like we do with stances - simply when we press left or right trigger, make directional buttons switch weapons, rather then just switch on trigger press.
eg.
Right Trigger +up = Melee W.1,
RT+right = Melee W.2,
RT+down = Melee W.3,
RT+left = Melee W.4,

LT+up = Ranged W.1,
LT+right = Ranged W.2,
LT+down = Ranged W.3,
LT+left = Ranged W.4,


Why?

1) it would allow to easily switch between any weapon in any order and save brain power (remember which direction corresponds to which weapon would be far simpler then remembering weapon order)
2) It would prevent accidental switches. Right now I pretty regularly change by accident my melee weapon when my finger slips from the bumper (maybe I should switch those two around? I feel I will be far less likely pressing bumper by an accident, then a trigger)

[LbISbIy]

I agree, Dante's way of switching weapons isn't ideal.
But switching styles quickly and easily is more important than switching weapons.

Also, you can equip as many weapons that you can control at the moment and in the order in which it's convenient for you.

Dante can be difficult if you're trying to get hold of everything he has right away and combine his moves into complex combos.
But every single piece of Dante's combat mechanics is pretty simple.

You just need to study all the possibilities of Dante gradually)

[WTFantastico]

Also agreed. They made a big stride with how they handled weapon switching in the Switch port of DMC3, where holding ZR brings up a radial menu of weapons you can select with the right stick, and I'd like something replicating that ease of use in future DMC games.

It's possible the RT+RS method would be uncomfortable if trying to simultaneously move the camera while switching weapons, though I can't remember a time in DMC5 when I tried to do those two actions simultaneously. The RT+D-pad situation you described is nice, but it would limit Dante to 4 melee weapons. If Nero's breaker switcher mod is anything to go by, then using diagonals for swapping weapons would be unpleasant.

Either way, I feel like swapping weapons for Dante can and should be made a lot better.

[Soniti254]

Originally posted by WTFantastico:

Also agreed. They made a big stride with how they handled weapon switching in the Switch port of DMC3, where holding ZR brings up a radial menu of weapons you can select with the right stick, and I'd like something replicating that ease of use in future DMC games.

I felt weapon switching with the Free-Style mode in the Switch port of DMC3 was way too awkward to use to ever be practical, I constantly found myself just tapping the button to get the weapon I wanted as it was so much easier then holding a shoulder button and flicking the stick especially in the heat of combat, particularly when it came to guns (I literally only used the handguns and shotgun in DMC3, I could never find any use for the other guns).

I think how it currently works is fine; you just need to memorize where the weapon you want to use is and tap as appropriate. Plus DMC5 has the advantage of being able to just equip whatever you want and leave anything you either don't or rarely use behind, I improved my game significantly by taking 3 melee weapons and 3 firearms rather then trying to use all the different types of weapons.

[Wormerine]

Originally posted by LbISbIy:

Also, you can equip as many weapons that you can control at the moment and in the order in which it's convenient for you.

Yeah. I did a lengthy study session in the void yesterday, and I feel I mostly have it figured out (maybe outside Balrog as I still struggle to remember which stance attacked to what. My biggest struggle right now is to not switch weapons accidently (I tried switching bumpers and triggers yesterday, and it would be a good idea 20hours ago. I am way to used to the system now). Limiting weapons might not be a bad idea for easier difficulty. I think, in the end, it will lead to better combos for now.

Originally posted by WTFantastico:

The RT+D-pad situation you described is nice, but it would limit Dante to 4 melee weapons.

Isn't he limited to 4 weapons? He only has 4 slots, right? and even so there aren't that many weapons. Is there a reason to carry single Bazooka instead of 2? Or one of earlier swords?

[Jetstream Sam]

Once you complete a certain difficulty (I don't remember wich one, probably SoS or DMD), you can extend the slots and have every single melee and ranged weapon available. Thus, you can equip Devil Sword Dante, Rebellion, Sparda, etc, or none at all, instead of the standard.

The reason you want to consider doing it is due to the properties of each sword. Also, holding down B/Circle with DSD is very different from holding down B/Circle with Rebellion for instance, although you can get somewhat of the equivalent with DSD with the Attack > Attack > pause > Attack combo, while you simply press B with the other.

[Black Lamb, Rock Enjoyer]

Ive never ever heard of accidental weapon switching lmfao.

But everyone is interested in how one would make Dante's weapon switching more "elegant." Because I've never heard someone try and describe a game mechanic as "clumsy." Sounds like its your hands.

[Wormerine]

Originally posted by Black Lamb:

Because I've never heard someone try and describe a game mechanic as "clumsy." Sounds like its your hands.

As a professional classical violinist I am specially hurt by this accusation and I take it very personally.

Still, with my thumb operating ABXY button, the index finger feels more natural resting on the trigger (it leans toward bumper if I operate stick). The main issue though is the quality of the trigger - it's quite worn out, and offers very little resistance. Slightest slip from the bumper and weapons change. It usually happens as I move from stick to ABXY. I have been more mindful of it lately, and I don't think I had any issues with accidental switch during my last session.

I do find having to scroll through 4 weapons in one direction only clumsy though. If I am on weapon 3 and want to get to 2 I need to press the button 3 times. Very inefficient design. Not only that, you need to keep constant track on where you are in the cue, which I think is the biggest issue - a uniform scheme (press X to get Y) would be far better.

That said all previous advice have been very helpful. Limiting myself to 3 weapons for now did wonders (not quite S rank wonders yet, but I am getting there). I find it far easier to wrap my head around scrolling through 3 weapons then 4.

[Punished_Stallion]

dumbest ♥♥♥♥ ive ever read

[Mu'Ammar of Carthus]

Originally posted by Wormerine:

with my thumb operating ABXY button, the index finger feels more natural resting on the trigger (it leans toward bumper if I operate stick). The main issue though is the quality of the trigger - it's quite worn out, and offers very little resistance. Slightest slip from the bumper and weapons change.

You can always change the mapping if that's a problem.
Though depending on how long you've played so far, it might take some getting used to.

[DeadPhoenix]

Originally posted by Punished_Stallion:

dumbest ♥♥♥♥ ive ever read

How old are you? 12?

I do agree with OP. I limit myself to 3 weapons as well. If i enable more than i get conused.
Older titles were usually limited to 2 weapons. DMC4 was 3, which was the perfect amount DMC5 went insane. That's why i prefer to play with Vergil over Dante any day.

[tv]

I suppose Tab could go backwards across guns. but I think R is my taunt button. Would need something else to use with E to switch weapons. The Strive mod has an option to keep Item UI from fading out in combat, if you can run it.

[McREEEEEE]

Controller has limited amount of buttons. What you suggest wouldn't work. The dev had a choice of mapping either the styles or the weapons on separate buttons for switching and they went with styles.

[Wormerine]

Originally posted by McREEEEEE:

Controller has limited amount of buttons. What you suggest wouldn't work.

May I ask why? I don't suggest removing styles from directional arrows.

While I think my suggestion is good, as other pointed out, allowing Dante carrying more weapons the 4 makes the suggestion irrelevant.

[LbISbIy]

Originally posted by Wormerine:

eg.
RB+up = Melee W.1,
RB+right = Melee W.2,
RB+down = Melee W.3,
RB+left = Melee W.4,

LB+up = Ranged W.1,
LB+right = Ranged W.2,
LB+down = Ranged W.3,
LB+left = Ranged W.4,

This weapon switching system is pretty good)

But you won't be able to switch weapons and styles at the same time.
Also, the system you presented creates the danger of miss click on styles.

Miss click on styles are not allowed.

However, miss clicks when switching weapons are quite acceptable, because all Dante's weapons are quite simply combined into one combination in any order.

Miss clicks on weapons are not allowed only if you want to realize a specific combo.
In this case, you choose weapons you need in the right order and train this combo until the button misses disappear)

[McREEEEEE]

Originally posted by Wormerine:

Originally posted by McREEEEEE:

Controller has limited amount of buttons. What you suggest wouldn't work.

May I ask why? I don't suggest removing styles from directional arrows.

While I think my suggestion is good, as other pointed out, allowing Dante carrying more weapons the 4 makes the suggestion irrelevant.

This game is designed for controller as well. If you don't do that then there's no more button.

2 analogue sticks for movement and camera control

4 buttons (A B X Y) for actions like jump, dodge, shoot...

4 directional D pad buttons for style switching

4 left and right bumpers for weapon/gun swapping as well as lock on

Pause/Menu/Start button

That's all the buttons a standard controller has. They need to maintain some consistency between the 2 types of control scheme for balance's sake. The game is balanced around the fact that you don't have instant access to a specific weapon/gun.

You can bind key however you want on KBM but honestly, your hand can only accommodate so many buttons at once. Plus 2 key combination for switching? Gonna be iffy.

Moves with lock on + directional input + button press can already be whiffed sometimes. Rapid and precise swapping tool that needs you to press 2 buttons at the same time? Troublesome mate.

I used Autohotkey to test your combination, and it was very annoying. Your RMB/LMB is registered as style action/attack quite often