Dodging in this game is terrible..

[Clumsybeast]

I have never seen a dodging system so bad in a game before.. Like its so lazily done, and it seems even when i completely dodge out of the way of the actual attack, i still get hit somehow.. Its very confusing, and inconsistent. So far its the only thing i don't like about the game. Fighting the first boss, and his swpes at me, i dodge out of the way of the attack, yet still get hit somehow.. Like.. Just take dodging out of the game if you can't make it right.

[AnemoneMeer]

So, I wrote a comprehensive guide on it before, but ♥♥♥♥ it, guide to the logic of dodging.

-------------------------

Dodging in Devil May Cry is designed on the idea that you are not simply dodging through an attack, but rather are dodging TO somewhere. This is why Jumping has I-frames, but Air Hike basically doesn't. The best way to avoid damage in DMC is to not be where the damage is.

Many bosses have chains of attacks designed to punish a bad dodge, EVEN IF YOU SUCCESSFULLY DODGE THE FIRST HIT. For souls players, this means the bosses can and will roll-catch you. The later phases of Goliath have him performing extended flurries of strikes with both hands as he rushes you down, or attacks that utilize his whole body as an extended hitbox that will eat a dodge simply by outlasting it.

The counterpoint to this is that enemies have very poor tracking. There's no 180 degree Havel the Rock spins to catch you. Pretty much every enemy in the game (With one notably exception) has a limited turn speed, and the one enemy without it (Artemis Drones), have a very limited movelist. Even the scariest attacks in the game can often be avoided without even inputting a proper dodge, simply by relocating yourself to avoid it. I've taken to dodging Urizen's fireball spam by staying in the air and simply varying my X and Y axis to cause him to whiff every fireball.

It is extremely easy to avoid damage, but it can often be difficult to recover from bad positioning. If you are in a situation where you need to panic dodge an attack, there's a very good chance you're not going to make the right call and mess it up. On the flipside, if you're keeping your calm and playing evasive in terms of positioning instead of simply throwing out safe attacks and rolling, you can get away with murder. We're talking throwing out the slowest attacks in the game in the middle of the bosses own attacks murder.

Atop that, many boss actions have counters. For Goliath, his devastating charge that cannot be rolled or jumped through can be countered by Overture's Battery attack. His fireballs can be countered by Gerbera's Shockwaves (or an extremely well timed slash). Artemis dash can be countered by Buster Arm and her phase transition charge up can be countered by Punchline's Boost Knuckle, encouraging you to bring the right loadout and plan your actions.

Perhaps the worst habit souls vets get into is assuming a dodge is the end of it. Many bosses in souls can be beaten by rolling into them. In Devil May Cry, all of your basic dodges have an ending period where you are unsafe. Jumping leaves you in the air, and Air Hike is not an I-framing tool, and rolls have recovery frames. When you dodge, you have to consider where you'll end up, and if you'll be safe when it ends, or if the next attack will hit you before it completes.

At this point, I am several missions into DMD (the highest non-gimmick difficulty in the game), having S-ranked all but SoS 10, 18, and 19, with quite a few no damage clears (mostly on Nero). I've run no damage runs on Goliath on DMD, who has 10.5x the HP of what you're dealing with now and outright kills you in 3-4 hits. And the crux of how I avoid getting hit is that I go in with a plan, and am constantly aware of the bosses facing and positioning relative to my own, so that I know what can and cannot hit me, and where to go to ensure that the boss misses. If I have to dodge an attack directly, I only need to dodge that one attack, as I have positioned both before and after the dodge to be in his blindspot.

[Mu'Ammar of Carthus]

Originally posted by ToveriJuri:

Originally posted by Clumsyninja:

Yeah, i don't believe you, but even so its whatever. I have been watching TONs of people play on youtube, and the far majority can't go long without getting hit, some attacks are completely undodgable. Either way, its my opinion, and will reflect my review of this game which i am about to make soon.

"I'm bad at this game and it's going to affect my review" Might as well go review Sekiro too since that seems to be the theme for the negative reviews for that game too

Them people who're mad they can't make it in Sekiro by playing it like it was Dark Souls, and act like it's not them, it's the game that's bad, it's hilarious.

Sekiro's combat is 10 times better than Dark Souls when you don't just suck at it.

[NoRedBlood]

Dark souls' dodge isn't really a good example since it's purely invul frame during the animation. Try Sekiro and you'll see what dodge is hard lol. DMC's dodge has always been the same and nothing to complain.

[One Elf]

Originally posted by AnemoneMeer:

So, I wrote a comprehensive guide on it before, but ♥♥♥♥ it, guide to the logic of dodging.

-------------------------

Dodging in Devil May Cry is designed on the idea that you are not simply dodging through an attack, but rather are dodging TO somewhere. This is why Jumping has I-frames, but Air Hike basically doesn't. The best way to avoid damage in DMC is to not be where the damage is.

Many bosses have chains of attacks designed to punish a bad dodge, EVEN IF YOU SUCCESSFULLY DODGE THE FIRST HIT. For souls players, this means the bosses can and will roll-catch you. The later phases of Goliath have him performing extended flurries of strikes with both hands as he rushes you down, or attacks that utilize his whole body as an extended hitbox that will eat a dodge simply by outlasting it.

The counterpoint to this is that enemies have very poor tracking. There's no 180 degree Havel the Rock spins to catch you. Pretty much every enemy in the game (With one notably exception) has a limited turn speed, and the one enemy without it (Artemis Drones), have a very limited movelist. Even the scariest attacks in the game can often be avoided without even inputting a proper dodge, simply by relocating yourself to avoid it. I've taken to dodging Urizen's fireball spam by staying in the air and simply varying my X and Y axis to cause him to whiff every fireball.

It is extremely easy to avoid damage, but it can often be difficult to recover from bad positioning. If you are in a situation where you need to panic dodge an attack, there's a very good chance you're not going to make the right call and mess it up. On the flipside, if you're keeping your calm and playing evasive in terms of positioning instead of simply throwing out safe attacks and rolling, you can get away with murder. We're talking throwing out the slowest attacks in the game in the middle of the bosses own attacks murder.

Atop that, many boss actions have counters. For Goliath, his devastating charge that cannot be rolled or jumped through can be countered by Overture's Battery attack. His fireballs can be countered by Gerbera's Shockwaves (or an extremely well timed slash). Artemis dash can be countered by Buster Arm and her phase transition charge up can be countered by Punchline's Boost Knuckle, encouraging you to bring the right loadout and plan your actions.

Perhaps the worst habit souls vets get into is assuming a dodge is the end of it. Many bosses in souls can be beaten by rolling into them. In Devil May Cry, all of your basic dodges have an ending period where you are unsafe. Jumping leaves you in the air, and Air Hike is not an I-framing tool, and rolls have recovery frames. When you dodge, you have to consider where you'll end up, and if you'll be safe when it ends, or if the next attack will hit you before it completes.

At this point, I am several missions into DMD (the highest non-gimmick difficulty in the game), having S-ranked all but SoS 10, 18, and 19, with quite a few no damage clears (mostly on Nero). I've run no damage runs on Goliath on DMD, who has 10.5x the HP of what you're dealing with now and outright kills you in 3-4 hits. And the crux of how I avoid getting hit is that I go in with a plan, and am constantly aware of the bosses facing and positioning relative to my own, so that I know what can and cannot hit me, and where to go to ensure that the boss misses. If I have to dodge an attack directly, I only need to dodge that one attack, as I have positioned both before and after the dodge to be in his blindspot.

Yeah I figured you can use trickster. I always RG Judgement Cut and on Nero he always warps out of my range so i already am avoiding it.

Anyway this guide is pointless because OP will ignore it. I gave him good details on how to dodge multiple times and he ignores it. Just believe everyone when they say he's just DSP. He never had the intention to gitgud and wants the game to bend to his bad habits.

[DarkJuda On Deck]

Originally posted by One Elf:

Anyway this guide is pointless because OP will ignore it. I gave him good details on how to dodge multiple times and he ignores it. Just believe everyone when they say he's just DSP. He never had the intention to gitgud and wants the game to bend to his bad habits.

From the moment he said "dodging in this game is bad, this is an objectif opinion" I understood he wasn't there to be told otherwise or to learn, he was just seeking attention. He really thinks his opinion is truth, an those who disagree with him either are lying or are idiots.

We are just loosing our time here.

[One Elf]

Originally posted by DarkJuda:

Originally posted by One Elf:

Anyway this guide is pointless because OP will ignore it. I gave him good details on how to dodge multiple times and he ignores it. Just believe everyone when they say he's just DSP. He never had the intention to gitgud and wants the game to bend to his bad habits.

From the moment he said "dodging in this game is bad, this is an objectif opinion" I understood he wasn't there to be told otherwise or to learn, he was just seeking attention. He really thinks his opinion is truth, an those who disagree with him either are lying or are idiots.

We are just loosing our time here.

it was alittle fun though. Not every day do you meet someone who is worse than DSP. Scrubs are interesting sometimes.

[Monkeyhunter2142]

Originally posted by Clumsyninja:

At the last boss, dodging, and hitboxes are still terrible. Only problem i had with the game, but all the way through the game is just not intuitive when it comes to dodging, and hitboxes are awful. Literally watched a sword come down and hit nothing but ground with me almost on the opposite side of the creature, and still hit me somehow. lmao Give the game a 8/10 tbh. Great, but not amazing. Felt pretty repetitive after a while. Bayonetta does combat 10x better imo.

You'd think bayo is better. I used to think like you. Getting spoiled with an easy dodge system.
After playing all dmc games and being above average now (I'd like to believe), I've realised dmc is far superior. So many mechanics to master and a seeming unlimited amount of combos to perform instead of what bayonetta offers. On the surface bayo seems like it has more combos but they are all predetermined and get repetetive.

Dodging isn't an easy 'avoid damage' button in dmc. It's an additional way of avoiding it, along with plenty of other methods.

My advice, try getting good at dmc, learning all the hidden mechanics. Then you'll realise why dmc has the best combat over every other hack'n'slash game (or w/e the genre's being called right now).

[meager]

Can you show any recording of your claims where you say "you've dodge perfectly and yet you get hit" because otherwise i call bull on this

[SoulDriver]

Originally posted by One Elf:

Originally posted by DarkJuda:

From the moment he said "dodging in this game is bad, this is an objectif opinion" I understood he wasn't there to be told otherwise or to learn, he was just seeking attention. He really thinks his opinion is truth, an those who disagree with him either are lying or are idiots.

We are just loosing our time here.

it was alittle fun though. Not every day do you meet someone who is worse than DSP. Scrubs are interesting sometimes.

♥♥♥♥ you know that fat slob DSP too? lmao

[Sidyctism]

Originally posted by SoulDriver:

♥♥♥♥ you know that fat slob DSP too? lmao

pretty sure he is quite famous for being bad at games and an all around sh.ithead

[Julius Seizure]

I kinda like threads like these because almost everyone has good advice about whatever it is that's being complained about. Really puts in perspective just how in-depth the game's mechanics can be compared to the plain ol' I-frame management that most other action games fall back on.

I only got into it at 4:SE so maybe my experience is lacking, but the combat in DMC feels like a fighting game without the 'always facing opponent' caveat those games tend to have, so I assume that positioning yourself to avoid hitboxes entirely while keeping yourself in damage-dealing range is more important than simple reactive timing, and I've gotten good results from that assumption so far. All I really wish for is an alternate lock-on that force-orients the camera behind your character God Hand-style to normalize direction inputs, at the cost of some situational awareness and potential disorientation.

I don't really know what to say about the dodging other than some initial difficulty adjusting to 'just get out of the damn way instead of trying to eat the other guy's weapon'-style instead of 'which direction do I roll in to phase through the enemy hitbox for this particular attack'-style. It's kind of refreshing, honestly, not to mention that using Nero's air-taunt to fly right over attacks is just hilarious.

[DireAct]

There are missions where I can get Triple S all the way through without taking any damage including boss fights. So no, the dodge is fine you just are too used to Dark Souls hand holding dodge where the iFrames are huge depending on weight.

[Clumsybeast]

LOL People are still whining about me not liking the dodging system in DMCV? People i beat it, and moved onto to other games. I won't be playing it again, no reason for me to "get gud" at it anymore. Played it, beat it, reviewed it and moved on. haha. It was a fun game, but didn't want to make me play it again.

[Hydris]

This thread is just at the phase where people are attracted by the bumps, but don't read any posts i.e the part where you got your answer, and only respond to the headline (thereby bumping it and starting the process over with another person).

[DireAct]

He also doesn't put up something like an answer, or he could delete it. Otherwise people will still come into this and tell him he's bad even if he's done with the game, it don't matter lol.