Hard to find fun with the shape...

[Le Did']

Don't get me wrong, i love the game but the shape thing doesn't seems well balanced at all, i like the fact of a higher being that can strike at any moment but the thing won't stop chasing and is breaking the immersion. I play with two other friends and our strategy, so we can win the mission, is that the one who has the shape is staying apart from the group and therefore, lose the fun as it won't stop going after you. so you have to run through all the lvl breaking the stealth aspect of it while your friends are having fun... I'm not saying you should remove it, i'm saying the game design mechanic aspect of it is too punitive. Make an item to cast it away, or lose you if it doesn't catch you after a certain amount of time, then give a break, and CHANGE the target when it reappears. The fact that it's always here and chasing the same person make it a casual annoying encounter instead of a special enemy that build apprehension therefore, making it special.

[Bombastar]

Completely agree

[Merry]

Hey there, indeed we were playing last night after buying it with yet another friend of us.
Clearly the shape is good for tension during the run but at some point it started to be frustrating.
I believe isolating the targeted player is the point so the team have to break apart, which is good again, for tension and stuff.
But we did multiple runs where one of us would be chase almost the whole run (15-20 minutes ?) while the 2 others would just run the maze and houses to find clues asap then just leave.
One of us was literally not playing the game, sad part was when the shape decided to strike the same guy twice in a row, completely breaking the fun for the targeted players and the rest of the team.
The shape is absolutely a good thing, but right now it feels like frustration take more place than fear/tension, when you are the one just running around the houses to escape the shape for 20 minutes straight.

[Zaden]

To be completely fair you guys can choose to camp out upstairs and bide the shape that is fine. I did the same when i started playing. Now I play with the shape chasing me and maybe 90% of the time's on me. Im just saying the skill level for playing w/' the shape chasing you is there. IF you guys dont want to summon the shape try to be undetected / low sin at all times. Sin is a cumulative thing that the team shares. So if your members are also getting caught the shape will be summoned faster. The one with the most sin out of all of you will draw it's gaze. If you want to find a different way to play, Have the guy getting chased gather evidence upstairs or have him join you guys doing the quest. AS three people you should be able to outrun him with litttle to no problems and protecting each other will so much easier.

[Merry]

Yea I see, but the thing is, it is so much fun exploring the maze and taking it slow in order to not be seen and all, at some point you just gonna be caught anyway.
Then the shape is coming and all of a sudden you can't take it slow anymore and tension isn't really there anymore, we mostly just rushing the exit.
The other way is letting the targeted players alone in the upper level but same...not really fun.

Point is, we don't have a problem escaping him or anything, we got caught like 2 mayyyybe 3 times, the problem for us is that it is just so much more fun when the shape isn't there yet cause nothing is forcing us to anything, even the stalker is super fun do deal with.

[Zaden]

You can take it slow. Just have Low sin. You cant get caught/be seen/ break things tranq.
the shape will not show up if your sin is low enough.

[Nathair]

The shape's a punishment for messing up a certain amount of times. The whole point of the shape is to force you to go fast and rush to finish the mission because you messed up the stealth aspect.

[Merry]

We would love to know then what exactly give sin and at what amount should we expect him to appear, cause right now he seems to always appear at some point anyway even after being caught like two time, for new comer it just seem to be explain badly I think.
Like we didn't know that even prank calling was giving sin at first, I mean it is suppose to be an ability to use, so yea it's just confusing I guess.

[Zaden]

What level is your host? I can't confirm this but i feel like the higher the level the less you have to sin to bring him out.I can't really give you a numerical value for the sin that is relative to how much you actually gain. The easiest way for you to learn how much sin is gained / needed for the shape is to play stalker.
EDIT: Forgot to note that any action that is in red text is a sin!
With that being said:
In order of least sin to most sin
Trespassing ( being seen or heard. Indicated by the yellow circle )
Disturbance
Vandalisim (break doors)
Drone UFO (Causes lot of little sin to build p quickly if you spam it)
Resisting (Pushing someone off of you. about two times before you're in shape territory)
Prankcall ( after it is finished the sin will be added, can maybe use 3-4 times before shape )
Takedown ( If detected while performing, will bring out shape in about two uses. Especially if sustained and detected)
Tranqing bodies (most sin. Sin count is HUGE. hide the body and keep it undiscovered to prevent ANY sin from being generated from this. Be warned that tranqing will make a loud noise to nearby Ai. IF the stalker takes a photo it will double the sin count for this. Which means the door will swing open!)
----
Don't forget that sin is cumulative between you and your team. So if your teammates resists and then you resist the shape will most likely spawn *very soon* He will target the individual amongst you all who has the most sin. Stay together as three to give each other the enhanced stamina recovery bonus. Whoever has the shape needs to maintain high stamina, so have that player recover their stamina quickly by ceasing to move. Cover the one who is being chased by flashbanging / tranqing/ foaming the shape. You can even do this while he is being choked out to cancel!. Having a grappling hook is a great way to make an escape route fast for the one being chased. Or a crossbow to land the tranq on him. Be wary of the shape changing targets. and if you cannot cancel the shape when he choking out your friend. Make distance because he will re-target one of you son and have the player who is not a target go for the save.

[Merry]

We are only the three of us and I was the host, we are lvl 10 I think.
And now this is very useful thanks a lot, see when we first started nothing told us about sin and the fact that even abilities count. We realised later that take down and drone are very much useless for a perfect run, it kind of come with the fun part we are talking about, so it means half the major cards are useless in the end, a lot of them seem fun tho, like the drone is really cool but apparently generate too much sin to be good in the end.
Anyway maybe it's just a balance thing, will see what devs think of that in later patchs :)
Thanks again for the very useful post Zaden !

[Zaden]

No problem Merry <3 Im happy to help!

[Le Did']

Very helpful indeed Zaden, maybe it was a lack of knowledge on my part, we tried sneaky style all the way and the shape was way more mercyful. I guess I did't understand the concept of sins...
But now I wish there was more aptitudes for stealth instead of last resort attack skills. I feel like all the skill are indeed if you mess up your stealth approach. the drone can be useful but all the rest is meant to get your ass sinful in case you mess up, which i understand and respect the playstyle. Some passive skills address that issue but the large majority is to help those aggressive skills. Once again I'd be happy for you to correct me if I am wrong, I don't have that much time to play so I'm not 100% familiar with everything...Thanks !

[Zaden]

Prank call can be used for stealth, it makes one person take a phone call. This phone call is broken because you can call them when they are in their "yellow" state ( they're searching for you, you will see the sleeper's heart monitor turn yellow) and it will reset them back to green state after the call. Additionally, in later levels when you get the 66% cooldown reduction you can spam call everything, traps, sleepers, lucids. ( only one person can be under the effects of your call though.) Takedown *can* be sneaky aswell, it will generate lots of sin though, and indomitable is intended to be used defensively, so to run away OR to go into a room, complete the objective, and run out. Drone you hit it on the head, it is mainly a support skill to help others, it can be used for stealth by using the UFO ability, ( bwoot-bwoot-bee-boo!) but it will generate lots of sin fast.


alssoo stealth is relative to some factors .The mechanics for stealth are sound - visibility- speed - and what you're walking on. Walking on padded flooring will reduce your sound, and harder surfaces will make more sound. Visibility is important for lucids. If you are in light they can see you from long distances. Otherwise if you are in the shadow they can't see you. Speed is important because if you run through the map you'll pull 3049304930 enemies to one room and it will be a poopfest. and sound is relative to speed because the faster you're going, the more sound you make. You can see how much sound you are making by looking at the eye on the bottom of your HUD. The more exaggerated the lines on the sides of the eye become, the more sound.

[Le Did']

Nice thanks for the tips !