SimAirport

SimAirport

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Volk Jul 27, 2018 @ 7:05pm
Assign runways DEV PLEASE READ
Please make it possible to assign runways to terminals. I set up 4 runways and separated taxiways thinking it would happen but it doesn't. Please make this a feature
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Showing 1-12 of 12 comments
Scifiwriterguy Jul 27, 2018 @ 7:16pm 
Not to be difficult, but... why? If weather shuts down runways X and Y, then that terminal is out of action until the runways are back online. Meanwhile, the terminal using runways A and B is fine. Moreover, If you have multiple flights timed in for a terminal close together, you're going to bottleneck unnecessarily; rather than being able to spread the load among all the runways, you'd be unnecessarily restricted.

If you're just trying to segregate taxiway traffic, that's what one-way taxiways are for. :) You can manage the aircraft traffic to and from terminals effectively through taxiway design and one-way checkpoints, essentially sorting and separating aircraft shortly after they come off the runways. That level of control isn't usually necessary, but it can be done.

It'd also be fair to point out that assigning runways to specific terminals is wildly unrealistic. Airlines are assigned a lot of things - gates, ticketing areas, logistics areas and equipment - but no airline gets its own runways. The things are just too expensive to be permanently assigning them to any one airline, and no airport would forego the landing fees they could be raking in on that runway from other airlines. It'd be a recipe for bankruptcy.
Last edited by Scifiwriterguy; Jul 27, 2018 @ 7:16pm
Moria15 Jul 27, 2018 @ 8:26pm 
Originally posted by memecubs2290:
Please make it possible to assign runways to terminals. I set up 4 runways and separated taxiways thinking it would happen but it doesn't. Please make this a feature

Unless something changed recently, you can do this by NOT connecting taxiways between the runways.. if you have multiple terminals with a runway for each.. keep them as seperate groups.. as soon as you connect taxiways they all become part of the same network and as I have found, the time from landing to terminal gate can vary wildly based on where the aircraft actually lands. You may also find, if they are connected, baggage cars and tankers going everywhere to service aircraft.. again.. not connecting the taxiways removes trhis problem.

Be careful though.. if you split the connections whilst you have aircraft flying in and out.. you may lock an aircraft into the wrong runway.. always make major changes like this at night with at least 3 hours before any flight is due to land.. once en-route comes up, I think the destination runway is already assigned.

I have an airport that has 4 terminals and 4 runways.. none of the runways are connected to each other... this may not be particularly realistic, but it's a hell of a lot more efficient in the game.
Last edited by Moria15; Jul 27, 2018 @ 8:30pm
Moria15 Jul 27, 2018 @ 8:40pm 
Originally posted by Scifiwriterguy:
It'd also be fair to point out that assigning runways to specific terminals is wildly unrealistic.

Ohhh ermmm not really although it's not readilly obvious :) ATC planning (at least in the airports I have used and been to the ATC of) incorporates a thing known as UATAG (old name.. now comes under A-CDM) or Unimpeeded Arrival Time At Gate. Part of the days planning is to allocate the arrival runway based on which gate the aircraft is arriving at to ensure minimum taxiing time.. yes of course things change during the day due to issues, but the aim is to always have an aircraft land on the arrival runway that is closest to their arrival gate when there is a choice, and in the game, that would be an advantage as taxi time can easily mount up in game to affect boarding and take off times.

It's all part of a system called Airport CDM (A-CDM) which is being implemented around the world to more accurately monitor and improve airport utility and efficiency.

Last edited by Moria15; Jul 27, 2018 @ 8:57pm
Scifiwriterguy Jul 27, 2018 @ 9:19pm 
Originally posted by Moria15:
Originally posted by Scifiwriterguy:
It'd also be fair to point out that assigning runways to specific terminals is wildly unrealistic.

Ohhh ermmm not really although it's not readilly obvious :) ATC planning (at least in the airports I have used and been to the ATC of) incorporates a thing known as UATAG (old name.. now comes under A-CDM) or Unimpeeded Arrival Time At Gate. Part of the days planning is to allocate the arrival runway based on which gate the aircraft is arriving at to ensure minimum taxiing time.. yes of course things change during the day due to issues, but the aim is to always have an aircraft land on the arrival runway that is closest to their arrival gate when there is a choice, and in the game, that would be an advantage as taxi time can easily mount up in game to affect boarding and take off times.

It's all part of a system called Airport CDM (A-CDM) which is being implemented around the world to more accurately monitor and improve airport utility and efficiency.

Absolutely, absolutely! But the nice part about A-CDM is that it allows for, well, let's just say "issues." (We know what we really mean.) FOD report on a runway, taxiway plugged up with a dead plane, any of the things that make approach and ground control just *so* much fun. Since the runways are tied into a taxiway network, you can path around pretty much any screwup (unless it's a truly epic one) by juggling which runway you bring an inbound down onto and how you route them through the taxiways. By making it a collaborative system, as a team you can outwit just about any problem by reassigning runways on the fly (no pun) and changing your routing. There are assignment preferences for the sake of efficiency, but it's not set in stone to allow for contingency management.

But if a runway is irrevocably assigned to a particular terminal, then it's not failure-tolerant anymore; one break in the system shuts it all down. One unexpectedly stopped plane or any problem with that runway and you're stuck until the problem is cleared. And given staffing and maintenance cutbacks, who knows how long that could take. ;)

(So now I'm curious: were/are you pilot or ATC? The way you wrote it sounds like pilot, but I'm not certain.)
Volk Jul 27, 2018 @ 9:21pm 
Originally posted by Moria15:
Originally posted by memecubs2290:
Please make it possible to assign runways to terminals. I set up 4 runways and separated taxiways thinking it would happen but it doesn't. Please make this a feature

Unless something changed recently, you can do this by NOT connecting taxiways between the runways.. if you have multiple terminals with a runway for each.. keep them as seperate groups.. as soon as you connect taxiways they all become part of the same network and as I have found, the time from landing to terminal gate can vary wildly based on where the aircraft actually lands. You may also find, if they are connected, baggage cars and tankers going everywhere to service aircraft.. again.. not connecting the taxiways removes trhis problem.

Be careful though.. if you split the connections whilst you have aircraft flying in and out.. you may lock an aircraft into the wrong runway.. always make major changes like this at night with at least 3 hours before any flight is due to land.. once en-route comes up, I think the destination runway is already assigned.

I have an airport that has 4 terminals and 4 runways.. none of the runways are connected to each other... this may not be particularly realistic, but it's a hell of a lot more efficient in the game.
I've done this. I saved up 80 million to make a scratch airport with 4 runways with 2 on one side and 2 on the other and 1 terminal the plane just never arrives and says final departure. Nothing is connected
LVGameDev  [developer] Jul 27, 2018 @ 10:15pm 
Mind sharing a screenshot, including one of your schedule? Will almost surely be able to spot the issue. :)

BTW, if you have one-way taxiways in front of the gates remove them (fixed in the latest Edge) -- it's likely the culprit.
Last edited by LVGameDev; Jul 27, 2018 @ 10:15pm
Moria15 Jul 28, 2018 @ 4:43am 
Originally posted by Scifiwriterguy:
Originally posted by Moria15:

Ohhh ermmm not really although it's not readilly obvious :) ATC planning (at least in the airports I have used and been to the ATC of) incorporates a thing known as UATAG (old name.. now comes under A-CDM) or Unimpeeded Arrival Time At Gate. Part of the days planning is to allocate the arrival runway based on which gate the aircraft is arriving at to ensure minimum taxiing time.. yes of course things change during the day due to issues, but the aim is to always have an aircraft land on the arrival runway that is closest to their arrival gate when there is a choice, and in the game, that would be an advantage as taxi time can easily mount up in game to affect boarding and take off times.

It's all part of a system called Airport CDM (A-CDM) which is being implemented around the world to more accurately monitor and improve airport utility and efficiency.

Absolutely, absolutely! But the nice part about A-CDM is that it allows for, well, let's just say "issues." (We know what we really mean.) FOD report on a runway, taxiway plugged up with a dead plane, any of the things that make approach and ground control just *so* much fun. Since the runways are tied into a taxiway network, you can path around pretty much any screwup (unless it's a truly epic one) by juggling which runway you bring an inbound down onto and how you route them through the taxiways. By making it a collaborative system, as a team you can outwit just about any problem by reassigning runways on the fly (no pun) and changing your routing. There are assignment preferences for the sake of efficiency, but it's not set in stone to allow for contingency management.

But if a runway is irrevocably assigned to a particular terminal, then it's not failure-tolerant anymore; one break in the system shuts it all down. One unexpectedly stopped plane or any problem with that runway and you're stuck until the problem is cleared. And given staffing and maintenance cutbacks, who knows how long that could take. ;)

(So now I'm curious: were/are you pilot or ATC? The way you wrote it sounds like pilot, but I'm not certain.)
LOL Private Pilot rated for multi jet engine (read Eclipse 550), working for a company that built and maintained ATC towers and systems for a while :) Yeah, I take your point, but I would like the idea that the system picks the nearest arrival runway when possible rather than just any runway.. I guess what I am suggesting is a little more AI on the arrivals part rather than just "plonk it on the ground" which can lead to long taxiway times especially as we currently don't have "issues" as such yet :)
Volk Jul 28, 2018 @ 6:15am 
Originally posted by LVGameDev:
Mind sharing a screenshot, including one of your schedule? Will almost surely be able to spot the issue. :)

BTW, if you have one-way taxiways in front of the gates remove them (fixed in the latest Edge) -- it's likely the culprit.
That could be it. I have nothing but 1 ways
Scifiwriterguy Jul 28, 2018 @ 7:46am 
Originally posted by Moria15:
LOL Private Pilot rated for multi jet engine (read Eclipse 550), working for a company that built and maintained ATC towers and systems for a while :) Yeah, I take your point, but I would like the idea that the system picks the nearest arrival runway when possible rather than just any runway.. I guess what I am suggesting is a little more AI on the arrivals part rather than just "plonk it on the ground" which can lead to long taxiway times especially as we currently don't have "issues" as such yet :)

100% in agreement; the runway selection algorithm could really benefit from some optimization.

Does the Eclipse 550 have SVS standard? I found the demonstration interesting but have yet to see one in an operational setting and wondered if you had any views (not a pun).
LVGameDev  [developer] Jul 28, 2018 @ 7:50am 
Right now the aircraft take into account, for accessible to gate (boolean) runways, the following heuristics:
1) distance to gate,
2) time from now that it'll be available (and have a usable path to gate),
3) size (they prefer the smallest suitable)

That's what is used when determining which runway to use. It's a simple average, with each heuristic getting a score on a 0.0 to 1.0 scale (best-to-worst among these heuristics), and then they choose the best-scoring.
Last edited by LVGameDev; Jul 28, 2018 @ 9:47am
Moria15 Jul 28, 2018 @ 4:40pm 
Originally posted by Scifiwriterguy:
Originally posted by Moria15:
LOL Private Pilot rated for multi jet engine (read Eclipse 550), working for a company that built and maintained ATC towers and systems for a while :) Yeah, I take your point, but I would like the idea that the system picks the nearest arrival runway when possible rather than just any runway.. I guess what I am suggesting is a little more AI on the arrivals part rather than just "plonk it on the ground" which can lead to long taxiway times especially as we currently don't have "issues" as such yet :)

100% in agreement; the runway selection algorithm could really benefit from some optimization.

Does the Eclipse 550 have SVS standard? I found the demonstration interesting but have yet to see one in an operational setting and wondered if you had any views (not a pun).

Not the version I flew, but as usual optional extras (I think the full Avio versions had it as standard).. can go all the way to a HUD and fully integrated SVS database feeds to the HUD if you want it. Company had a couple of basic 550's to get to and from airports in europe in a hurry if needed, and anyone with a twin prop license was given a free course to get Jet and fly the company eclipses.. would have seemed rude to say no :) The company version had TAS, TAWS and the greatest thing from my point of view.. Auto Throttle linked to Auto-Pilot :) It's the little things ya know?
Scifiwriterguy Jul 28, 2018 @ 9:12pm 
Originally posted by Moria15:
Not the version I flew, but as usual optional extras (I think the full Avio versions had it as standard).. can go all the way to a HUD and fully integrated SVS database feeds to the HUD if you want it. Company had a couple of basic 550's to get to and from airports in europe in a hurry if needed, and anyone with a twin prop license was given a free course to get Jet and fly the company eclipses.. would have seemed rude to say no :) The company version had TAS, TAWS and the greatest thing from my point of view.. Auto Throttle linked to Auto-Pilot :) It's the little things ya know?

Amazing how in both RL and gaming, it's those little quality of life upgrades you notice most, huh? ;)
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Date Posted: Jul 27, 2018 @ 7:05pm
Posts: 12