Why Haiti Empire is named Hittites?

[Dorok]

Each time I met Haiti, cool at least an original empire. Then through many massages I discover it's Hittites.

And as I'm optimistic, each time I believe I finally found Haiti empire but nope.

Seriously, why use two names? Stick to Hittites looks better it would avoid see Haiti even if it's Hatti.

[gota]

From Wikipedia:

The Hattians (/ˈhætiənz/) were an ancient Bronze Age people, that inhabited the land of Hatti, in central Anatolia (modern Turkey). They spoke a distinctive Hattian language, that was neither Semitic nor Indo-European. Hattians are attested by archeological records from the Early Bronze Age, and also by historical references in later Hittite and other sources. Their main center was the city of Hattush. Faced with Hittite expansion (since c. 2000 BC), Hattians were gradually absorbed (by c. 1700 BC) into the new political and social order, imposed by the Hittites, who were one of the Indo-European-speaking Anatolian peoples. The Hittites kept the country name ("land of Hatti") unchanged, which also became the main designation for the Hittite state.[1][2][3]

[Dorok]

Perhaps but nobody speak Hittites language anymore and nobody doesn't know very well Haiti, so either the game gives option of larger more readable UI, either it stops use Haiti to name Hittites.

One example among plenty:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ancient_great_powers

See? Hittites is used never Hatti. And that's almost 99% of cases, Hatti will never be used as a reference for Hittites, it's plain wrong go against that, and almost worse to use both in the game, Hatti and Hittites.

Moreover I have doubts on game precision on that, for example, Rome for Roman Empire, really? What sources?

[Xyth]

'Hittites' is an adjective and a plural noun for the name of a people. 'Hatti' is just a noun and was what they called their land/nation, borrowed from an earlier people (the Hattians). It's also the term used by archaeologists.

I'm assuming your use of 'Haiti' is because of autocorrect.

[Dorok]

I use Haiti because it's what I read constantly with the lilliputian characters, I know Hittites and Haiti, that's it, Hatti is an anwful typo..

Quote how the wiki page is listing:
1 Ancient Western Asia
1.1 Sumer and Akkad
1.2 Hurrians
1.3 Babylonia
1.4 Assyria
1.5 Hittites
1.6 Phoenicia
1.7 Carthaginian Empire

It's a mix, of what people are the most used to use, Hittites not Hitti, Babylonia not Babylonian, Carthaginian Empire not Carthage.

It's not about using a strict rule, but about using the most common usage, and for Hittites it's Hittites, not Haiti the nice island.

[Xyth]

You don't call the nation of the Egyptians "Egyptians" or the country of the Greeks "Greeks". Likewise you don't call the nation of the Hittites "Hittites". The nation of the Hittites is Hatti. Not 'Hittites', not 'Hitti' and definitely not 'Haiti'.

There were no people called 'Hatti'. There were people called Hattians and people called Hittites and both used the name "Hatti" for their nation. The Hattian nation of Hatti was absorbed by the Hittites and became the heart of the Hittite nation of Hatti. They kept the name.

Parts of speech matter and the game is consistent with them because it has to be. Otherwise you'd get weird messages like "The Apadana has been constructed in Persians!". And the Choose a Leader screen uses nation names, not the name of the people.

The game doesn't call anything "Haiti" so I don't know why you keep using it.

[Dorok]

I understand your point of view and dev view of it.

But I disagree like the wiki page disagree with you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ancient_great_powers
That is:
1 Ancient Western Asia
1.1 Sumer and Akkad
1.2 Hurrians
1.3 Babylonia
1.4 Assyria
1.5 Hittites
1.6 Phoenicia
1.7 Carthaginian Empire

If you persist believe you are right and the wide majority, go fix the wiki, I'd be curious see that.

[Xyth]

It's the view of archaeologists and historians and used widely in textbooks on the subject. And according to them it was view of the Hittites themselves so your disagreement really doesn't carry any weight whatsoever.

Yes, people are far more familiar with the term "Hittites" than the term "Hatti" but that's irrelevent because they have two different uses. I imagine more people are familiar with the term "Dutch" than "Netherlands" but we don't insist that the country be called "Dutch" because that would be stupid. Two different uses.

The leader selection screen in Old World shows the name of the nation, not the name of the people. If you want it show 'Hittites' then the devs need to change all of of the nation names to people too (Greeks, Carthaginians, etc) or they need to code a special exception just for one because some random guy on Steam doesn't like learning new things.

[Mohawk_Solver]

Hittites is the collective adjective, Hatti is the name of the nation, a noun. We need a noun and an adjective for the text to flow well, consider sentences like "greatest monument in all of Egypt". Then "in all of Hittites" wouldn't work. Yes, the name isn't great, but that's the general situation surrounding Hittites. The earlier people that lived there were called Hattians, not related to Hittites, but the Hittites did use some names from these earlier Hattians, including apparently "Hatti" for the land itself.

Scholars also prefer writing about "Hittites" but also use or at least note "Hatti". Consider:

"The kingdom and its official language have become known as Hittite [..] but the Hittite language was not indigenous in Asia Minor and the name of Hatti was given to the country by the earlier people of the land" - O. R. Gurney, The Hittites.

"Warriors of Anatolia: A Concise History of the Hittites" by T. Bryce refers to the in-game leader "Great King of Hatti, called Hattusili" and goes into more detail. Quote: "But the name 'Hatti' was perpetuated throughout Hittite history on a much more broader, more public level. What we call the 'Hittite kingdom' was referred to as 'the Land of Hatti' in Hittite and other Near Eastern texts. And the people we call 'Hittites' were known simply as 'the people of the Land of Hatti'. [..] the inhabitants of the kingdom defined themselves [..] by the traditional name of the region in which they lived".

The 1897 text by Hugo Winckler, the historian who discovered the Hittites, notes that he used Hethiter (German for Hittites), Cheta and Hatti as the names for these people, and in his translation of Egyptian references to the Hittites, he writes "des königs von Hatti", so "(of) the kings of Hatti".

So the terminology of the region is sadly confusing (there's Hittites, Hatti, Hattians, Hattian and Hittite languages...) there's definitely a history of using "Hatti" in historical texts for the Hittite kingdom. It's not perfect but given that we need a noun, I'm fairly happy with what we chose.

[Dorok]

I'm sure you are happy with your choice, but then Rome for Roman Empire and Carthage for Carthaginian Empire?

Looks like a crap choice no way synchronized with the non Hittite choice.

[HB]

https://www.jstor.org/stable/25581278?read-now=1&refreqid=excelsior%3Ab2806dd45816406a145ce013d31851cf&seq=2
Having silver mine in the OW map is a nice touch.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by HB:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/25581278?read-now=1&refreqid=excelsior%3Ab2806dd45816406a145ce013d31851cf&seq=2
Having silver mine in the OW map is a nice touch.

To stick to thread topic, what's the title? I quote: The original home of the Hittites and the Site of Kussar.

No Haiti mention at all, in the title, it's saying a lot.

But nice find, I'll try read it. And I have no doubt Haiti is a fair phonetic translation of how Hittite empire was named, but it's not the point.

Try look smart and educated is much less important than try be clear and well understood.

[HB]

Originally posted by Dorok:

To stick to thread topic, what's the title? I quote: The original home of the Hittites and the Site of Kussar.

They are called Hittites in game because they themselves, and others callled them that in historical texts. No one called them Hiatians.

Kussar location we know is the site of but one of the Hittites Royal familys.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=gJjwCflv2q4C&pg=PA122&lpg=PA122&dq=The+original+home+of+the+Hittites+and+the+Site+of+Kussar.&source=bl&ots=YJjIRU55DE&sig=ACfU3U2bLN6JFH4-4mszGfRZIZuYxv5_8Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj54ODS-4v4AhUNiFwKHcNpBC8Q6AF6BAglEAM#v=snippet&q=kussar&f=false page 122.

Originally posted by Dorok:

No Haiti mention at all, in the title, it's saying a lot.

Because Haiti is a modern country in different part of the world and not used in the game. Yes it says a lot about your crushing ignorance.

Originally posted by Dorok:

But nice find, I'll try read it. And I have no doubt Haiti is a fair phonetic translation of how Hittite empire was named, but it's not the point.

How is it a nice find, if you not read that which you comment on, its almost as if you prefer to make up stuff and only look for confirmation bias, what they called themselves and what name is used in game is the point you raised, now its not the point.

Originally posted by Dorok:

Try look smart and educated is much less important than try be clear and well understood.

Every one understands your neither smart or educated, and best ignored.

[Dorok]

The link above doesn't allow check much. Here something that is fully readable, on a site that looks serious, and even if I have no doubts that not everything is writing in marble, it's clearly serious, and very exhaustive even if a bit boring because of it:
https://www.academia.edu/5018455/Bryce_The_Kingdom_Of_The_Hittites

So firstly Hittite is much more used than Hatti.

Secondly Hatti seems come from Hattic and Hattians which is only one third of probable ethnics origins of Hittites. And this book seems quote it's been quite questioned as an importance of origins of Hittites.

It remains that Hatti empire has been used but only along a period of time, Hittite Empire was also very used. And let be clear it's been very changing along time without mention that plenty conquests was more conquer, pillage, destroy and withdraw.

So I don't see any clear evidence that Hatti empire is more justified than Hittite empire and there's very good reason to use Hittite:
- It is more spread and more known.
- It would avoid the awful confusion with Haiti thanks to lilliputian characters.
- It would avoid throw confusion with Hattians.

Originally posted by HB:

Originally posted by Dorok:

Try look smart and educated is much less important than try be clear and well understood.

Every one understands your neither smart or educated, and best ignored.

As usual you can't resist aggress and sort of insult with your stinky behavior. You have such a lame stinky personality, you should start realize it.

[Xyth]

Originally posted by Dorok:

So I don't see any clear evidence that Hatti empire is more justified than Hittite empire and there's very good reason to use Hittite:

The game doesn't use Hatti Empire. No-one uses Hatti Empire. Just like no-one uses "Egypt Empire" or "Greece Empire". Because Hatti is not an adjective, it is a noun.

Hatti corresponds with Egypt, Greece, and Persia. Hittite corresponds to Egyptian, Greek, and Persian. Hittites corresponds to Egyptians, Greeks, and Persians.

I really think you need to reread what the developer (and I) wrote.

Is English not your first language? (Genuine question, no insult intended)

[Dorok]

An adjective? Lol.

So French Empire or France Empire or Paris Empire or South France Empire makes no sense in English?

Really? In French all are totally valid and easy to understand, if English can't it's a very limited language.

I can't believe it, do you even have one first language? (Genuine question, no insult intended)