First hours of play

[Ali Ibrahim]

So far so good

[WhateverWorks]

First time playing? It's very different from pretty much any other Final Fantasy (except maybe 15? idk haven't played 15). If you know what to grind/farm you can get very very powerful/rich very early. It's also a game rich with lore thanks to the bestiary and a large variety of locales.

[Melodia]

Only real similarity that 15 has to this (over other FF games) is that they both have hunts and both have an actual open world leaning design, though FF12's is much more limited and 15's goes away about 2/3rds in.

[WhateverWorks]

Personally ever since 12 came out I've firmly believed that is the perfect system/engine to remake all previous ones on. Something about the turn-based yet not turn-based, open world not open world, dungeon crawler not dungeon crawler gameplay of 12 was just PERFECT imo for these games. Shame they didn't choose to redo them all with this games' systems.

[Melodia]

Originally posted by WhateverWorks:

Personally ever since 12 came out I've firmly believed that is the perfect system/engine to remake all previous ones on. Something about the turn-based yet not turn-based, open world not open world, dungeon crawler not dungeon crawler gameplay of 12 was just PERFECT imo for these games. Shame they didn't choose to redo them all with this games' systems.

Yeah, It's been my dream to like, have FF1 but done up in with FF12's battle system. I feel like 1 especially would work great.

[Serafie1999AD]

FFXII's customizable AI (i.e. the Gambit system) is something I'd like to see in action RPGs, which often have terrible AI companions. I also greatly enjoyed how FFXII's battle system almost feels like RTwP: you can make the battles fast-paced if you want, but with Wait mode, you can pause the action whenever you want to strategize. While the character development could have been stronger, the world and lore building was amazing. The double job system adds plenty of replay value too, even though the added respec feature somewhat reduces it, since you no longer have to commit to your class choices for the rest of the playthrough.

[WhateverWorks]

Originally posted by Serafie1999AD:

The double job system adds plenty of replay value too, even though the added respec feature somewhat reduces it, since you no longer have to commit to your class choices for the rest of the playthrough.

You can still play as if that option isn't there. Some people even prefer sticking to one class per character. There are definitely ways to play with older limitations in mind. Personally I really wish this came with the OG PS2 NA version also built into it, there were things I also liked a lot about that one. Particularly enemy drops and weapon balancing (Killing werewolves for Kotetsu's, getting burning bow early, etc)

[Hinnyuu]

Originally posted by WhateverWorks:

Particularly enemy drops and weapon balancing (Killing werewolves for Kotetsu's, getting burning bow early, etc)

Isn't that still a thing? Sure some drops changed around, but a lot also remained the same and by and large there's still plenty of skips in power tiers. Burning Bow for example still drops where it used to drop in the original (it even went up from 5% on 3chain to 7%). Shambling Corpses still give Platinum Daggers, Lindbur Wolf still gives Gladius, etc. etc. same as in Original. And even your Werewolves still drop a ~50 attack weapon it's just now Slasher instead of Kotetsu.

And you can make even MORE curve-breaker stuff now, since some of the new top-tier items can be crafted way ahead of time if you know how (e.g. Vrscika or Mithuna) so if that was something you enjoyed, you can now do it... more.

Personally, I'm happy that they changed things up, and there's a lot more replay value with the job system than there is with the single board. But I get that some people prefer the old way; I suppose they thought it might have been confusing for people to give them too many options. Luckily mods exist on PC :)

[WhateverWorks]

A LOT of the gear drops you would go after are changed in the Zodiac/International version. And many where the drop is the same, the item itself is completely different in stats. Kotetsu, the weakest Katana, had a base ATK of 50 in the original NA. I get that the Axe is the same, I never have and never will use Axes in this game lol. Many other drops changed too, but this one is actually pretty significant to how I went about my powerleveling in the original. I still prefer Zodiac Age by far, just wish I had the option is all. It's an overly personal nitpick, not a slight on the game in its current state.

[Hinnyuu]

Originally posted by WhateverWorks:

A LOT of the gear drops you would go after are changed in the Zodiac/International version.

Like which? The most gone-after early game curve breakers were, to my knowledge, Burning Bow, Gladius, and Platinum Dagger. Those all still drop in the same places, at equal or better rates. Which ones are you talking about that they changed? Obviously the Kotetsu, as already mentioned; but you said "A LOT", so do you have some more examples?

Originally posted by WhateverWorks:

And many where the drop is the same, the item itself is completely different in stats. Kotetsu, the weakest Katana, had a base ATK of 50 in the original NA. I get that the Axe is the same, I never have and never will use Axes in this game lol.

I get where you're coming from, but in terms of actual damage output, those are actually much closer than you think. Yeah axes suck - but it's not like katanas are great in the early game, either. It's very hard to scale them because you don't have the gear to get both STR and MAG and so their average damage output is much lower than it looks from the attack power alone - just as with axes/hammers. It's still probably in favor of the katana overall, but the difference is much smaller than people think. Katana (or Bushi in general) are vastly overrated in the early/mid game, and people are biased in their perception because of Bushi's endgame power (where you CAN scale stats properly).

[WhateverWorks]

I mean I've only done Zodiac Age once so far, working myself up to a slower run that involves no grinding or special gear outside what you'd normally get through story. But I know in the original you could scale Katana's as soon as you finished Raithwall, Maximillians and I think Hypnocrowns or some other high level mage helm were available in Nabudis.

And I get the main points of the old powerlevel path are still here, it just throws me. Like getting all spells being a completely different process. Who would ever find Hastega in Zodiac Age without a guide/internet? I could see finding/fighting Ultima easier than finding certain spells if you're doing it without any outside help. Idk, the Zodiac Age is for sure better but certain changes didn't make a ton of sense imo.

[Hinnyuu]

Originally posted by WhateverWorks:

But I know in the original you could scale Katana's as soon as you finished Raithwall, Maximillians and I think Hypnocrowns or some other high level mage helm were available in Nabudis.

Maximillian does not give +MAG and didn't in the original either (it gives +9 STR/+6 SPD in both). Golden Skullcaps are what you're probably thinking of in Nabreus, which do give +10 MAG - but don't give any +STR (again, same in both versions).

That's the whole problem with Katana - it's easy to find gear that gives +STR or +MAG early on, but not gear that gives both like you can at endgame.

Originally posted by WhateverWorks:

Who would ever find Hastega in Zodiac Age without a guide/internet?

Oh come ON now. The original was SO MUCH WORSE in that respect. Infamously so, in fact, as with the whole Zodiac Spear forbidden chests thing that's often held up as an example for completely egregious game design. Good luck figuring THAT out on your own. This version has done away with most of that BS stuff.

[WhateverWorks]

The zodiac spear has nothing to do with buying spells. In the original you can buy all the end game magic in the same place. And I remember, it's not maximillian that I'm thinking of (though you can get it there) you can also get Magepower Shishak (spelling?). Though honestly having this weird back and forth over the merits of both when it comes down to subjective opinion is a waste of time, especially when you seem very desperate to convince me that I'm wrong just for wanting the option to play the original (a feature that more and more remasters have built in these days). Anyways you're diverting away from the topic by needlessly focusing on one persons minor nitpick that they admitted was a minor one. Find something better to do.

[Hinnyuu]

Originally posted by WhateverWorks:

Though honestly having this weird back and forth over the merits of both when it comes down to subjective opinion is a waste of time

It's not subjective opinion where things drop. How much that MATTERS is subjective, but you said "A LOT of the gear drops you would go after are changed in the Zodiac/International version" and that's not just "subjective opinion" that's asserting facts that can be easily checked and verified.

And that's what I was asking about, not whether or not you LIKE it or whatever. You said a ton of stuff has changed - I don't think that's the case. Nothing subjective about that, you can literally look it up.

If you don't know these things, that's fine - not everyone is some weird freak who plays this game for 17 years straight. But then just, well, don't make these kinds of pronouncements.

There's 100% nothing wrong with just saying "I liked X better" or whatever, but that doesn't really work for objective facts like where things drop. "X drops from enemy Y" is not a subjective preference. That's just something you can check and see if it's objectively true or not.

[WhateverWorks]

Oh look, one of those modern western people who thinks they have some sort of lordship over what people say, how they say it, or in what context. No one is obligated to go on a long multihour in depth conversation to back up a statement you take issue with. Insisting they do so just gives them reason not to and makes you look, well I guess like a wanna-be forum tyrant. But hey, I've already lost interest in this conversation since it's turned into some guy who isn't even the OP telling people what they can and can't say in the thread.

Hope your day gets better.

[Hinnyuu]

Originally posted by WhateverWorks:

No one is obligated to go on a long multihour in depth conversation to back up a statement you take issue with.

No one is entitled to get away with objectively false statements without critique, either.

Don't like it when people check your facts? Don't spout facts on a public forum.

I have ZERO problems with you just going "I like the original version better" - that's cool, good for you. But don't them come in and go "...because they changed so many drop locations for items" when that is something you can just check and see if it's true or not. The first part is your preference, and it's beyond reproach - the second one is a fact, and it's subject to checking and critique.

Don't like that, don't make assertions about facts. And it's SUPER weird to go "why are you not letting me just speak falsehoods, why are you checking my facts?!" as if that was somehow strange or inappropriate. That's how discourse works.