FINAL FANTASY XII THE ZODIAC AGE

FINAL FANTASY XII THE ZODIAC AGE

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First Jobs for each character?
I'm playing through with what is apparently a standard strong all-jobs playthrough, this list:

1. Foebreaker / Shikari
2. White Mage / Machinist
3. Bushi / Knight
4. Black Mage / Monk
5. Time Battlemage / Uhlan
6. Red Mage / Archer

So I've made Vann a Shikari and Penelo a Monk. Now I have Fran and Balthier, and plan to make Fran #6 and Balthier #5, but I'm debating which class to make them first, because I only vaguely remember what's coming. Thoughts?
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Showing 1-15 of 85 comments
Hinnyuu May 2, 2023 @ 3:20pm 
First off, just to clarify - there is no difference in what you choose first, aside from the obvious one in that it's the only job you have before you unlock the ability to pick a second one. There is no advantage or anything that comes from picking a job first, they work the exact same in a pair regardless of what order you pick them in.

Second, it looks like your "standard strong all-jobs" setup is based on some of the popular guides from very early release, which are unfortunately QUITE wrong. Most were written based on info from the old IZJS version without a chance to actually test double jobs, and they don't give good recommendations - pairs like Foebreaker/Shikari or Black Mage/Monk for example are low performers, not high ones.

If you want a 12-job setup specifically, community research and testing has effectively "solved" that scenario using two very close options:

Knight/Bushi
Shikari/White Mage
Foebreaker/Monk
Uhlan/Machinist
Black Mage/Time Battlemage
Archer/Red Battlemage

-OR-

Knight/Black Mage
Shikari/White Mage
Foebreaker/Machinist
Monk/Bushi
Archer/Red Battlemage
Uhlan/Time Battlemage

I personally favor the first one, but the differences are tiny and somewhat subjective.

Now, all that being said, some jobs tend to be more useful early in the game than others. Bushi for example isn't great early on because katanas use both STR and MAG to scale and you'll struggle to get both up early on. Pure STR jobs like Knight tend to do better. There's also some standout weapons you can acquire very early on if you know how, like the Gladius - if you plan on getting that, Shikari becomes a great pick; if not, it's mediocre.

It can also pay to have some diversity, like having an offensive caster and a healer - you can get by on the innate abilities on some characters (e.g. Fran will always have Black Magick 1 unlocked regardless of her job) but you may also want more oomph depending on how you like to play. Red Battlemage can be useful there (especially when paired with Fran, since it doesn't get the low-tier Black Magicks normally) since it has a good variety of stuff. But you can also just pick a Black Mage and a White Mage and specialize. The differences early on mostly come down to how you play, and things can go either way depending on your strategy.

If I was to give a recommendation based on my preference, I'd pick as many STR-based attackers as I can, and have a Black Mage and White Mage. The rest is kind of whatever, anything will work. Optimization, while real, is by no means required at that level. Nothing should make or break things for you, and a lot of differences are actually quite small in practice.

Also, I don't know if you know, but you can freely refund your jobs and all LP as much as you like now - so you can just experiment and if you don't like it, you can reset everything and do it over and you never lose any LP or anything in the process. Feel free to try and find out what's most fun FOR YOU! :)
Aha I see. yeah, I'd looked up several guides and settled on what they agreed on, but it's good to hear more relevant information. Thanks!
Originally posted by Hinnyuu:
If you want a 12-job setup specifically, community research and testing has effectively "solved" that scenario using two very close options:

Knight/Bushi
Shikari/White Mage
Foebreaker/Monk
Uhlan/Machinist
Black Mage/Time Battlemage
Archer/Red Battlemage

-OR-

Knight/Black Mage
Shikari/White Mage
Foebreaker/Machinist
Monk/Bushi
Archer/Red Battlemage
Uhlan/Time Battlemage

I personally favor the first one, but the differences are tiny and somewhat subjective.

If I'm not imposing, could you touch on the advantages of these class combos and what differences arise in these lineups? Or, if that's asking too much, could you link me some reading material?

(This isn't my first playthrough of FF12... it's my third... so don't sweat too much about spoilers.)
Last edited by Jonny Friggin Panic; May 2, 2023 @ 5:33pm
Hinnyuu May 2, 2023 @ 6:55pm 
Originally posted by Jonny Friggin Panic:
If I'm not imposing, could you touch on the advantages of these class combos and what differences arise in these lineups?
Sure np.

Knight/Bushi vs. Knight/Black Mage

The big difference here is that the first is a pure attacker, while the second is what I call a chimera (as opposed to a hybrid): it can be either an attacker or a caster as you need/want it, but it doesn't really do both at the same time (like a hybrid would). The advantages are a wide variety of top-tier options, as Knight/Bushi has both the heavy hits and the combo setup, and Knight/Black Mage can be both a top-tier attacker and a top-tier caster as you require. The most important factor is that both setups can utilize Excalibur + White Robes, which increases holy damage by +50% and makes for the highest all-around damage setup at endgame.
Things of note: Excalibur + White Robes (+50% holy damage) is the highest general damage setup (there's others better in specific situations); for Knight/Black Mage don't try and do both casting and attacking at the same time - switch gear and gambits as needed to do one or the other. Use the Mateus and Hashmal Espers on the Knight for extra utility.

Shikari/White Mage

This is arguably the best dedicated tank in the game, if you want to use it (you don't have to have a dedicated tank, but it can make certain fights a lot easier). It can also use the Yagyu Darkblade + Black Robes combo, which much like the above-mentioned Excalibur/White Robes setup has a +50% damage boost (for dark damage here) and is the highest damage setup on the big superboss of the game.
This setup combines both tanking and healing, so you can focus fully on damage with the other two characters.
Things of note: THE tank character, watch for the Main Gauche dagger - it increases your block chance

Foebreaker/Monk vs. Foebreaker/Machinist

Foebreaker weapons are almost universally terrible because they have a hugely random damage range, so this is mostly used here to get some stuff for the other job (and since this is an all-jobs setup, to "park" the Foebreaker where it's least problematic). Monk really wants heavy armor and the Genji Gear license, which it gets here; Machinist doesn't really need anything, but being able to use Wither/Addle/Shear/Expose at range can be nice. These are boom-boom characters - they exist to smack things. Monk has some good weapons because it scales purely off of STR, and Machinist has insane weapons if you rush the endgame guns early via bazaar craft (or mediocre weapons if not). Put them into Berserk state for extra slam.
Things of note: guns don't care about stats they do fixed damage; use heavy armor on the Monk for +STR, light armor is largely useless; utilize Berserk for more damage/faster attacks

Uhlan/Machinist vs. Monk/Bushi

Uhlan is the definition of a medium job, not really sucking but also not really standing out. The exceptions are Zodiac Spear, which is a great endgame weapon but arrives very late, and Holy Lance + White Robes (same as with Excalibur, it's +50% holy damage) which is foregone here because it doesn't quite work out with the 12-job restriction. This is another pure attacker, just existing to hammer things into the ground. The Machinist tends to have good weapons early which matches nicely with the Uhlan's late blooming.
The Monk/Bushi is one of the top damage dealers, but will mostly use Monk stuff until endgame. There it has the best combo-damage setup, especially if you intentionally stay at low HP% to get more combo hits (you get more hits the lower your HP).
Things of note: pure attackers, utilize Berserk for more damage/faster attacks

Black Mage/Time Battlemage vs. Uhlan/Time Battlemage

Time Battlemage is arguably the worst job, not really doing anything of note. It has some moderately useful stuff in Haste and Float, but nothing that's really crucial. Pairing it with a Black Mage (which is the most autonomous, self-sustaining job) just gives you the option of useful little things if and when you need them, while the Uhlan pairing is mostly "damage control" in a 12-job setup where this job just, well, has to go somewhere. Either way, the Time Battlemage barely changes how you play and is mostly there for the occasional buff.
Things of note: just kill things, Float when you're out of combat just for utility

Archer/Red Battlemage

This is another "parking" setup where the Archer just has to go somewhere and this is the best place. Archer damage is mediocre, there's a spot or two where it's ahead of the curve but by and large it suffers from needing two stats (STR + SPD) to scale, and from the fact that bad weather actually makes your bows terrible as you'll keep missing attacks in rain, wind, snow, etc. (yes really). The advantage is the Burning Bow, which has a hidden +50% fire damage modifier that works with spells as well as attacks - so pairing it with Red Battlemage allows you to cast stronger fire spells, including the Red-Battlemage-exclusive Ardor. This character CAN be an attacker, but you'll almost never want it to be, and rather treat it as a second offensive caster to go with your Black Mage. Red Battlemage is fairly flexible and can both attack and heal, but most of the time you're best off just pumping spells into enemies.
Things of note: Burning Bow for +50% fire damage, Black Robes for +50% dark damage, Cuchulainn Esper for -ga level black magicks

Hope this helps!
Last edited by Hinnyuu; May 2, 2023 @ 6:56pm
Thank you!
I've run into a rather silly issue: I can't decide who to make what. I'm using the second setup:

Knight/Black Mage
Shikari/White Mage
Foebreaker/Machinist
Monk/Bushi
Archer/Red Battlemage
Uhlan/Time Battlemage

...but, ultimately, no matter who I put where, I feel like I'm miscasting somebody. I'm trying to be at least somewhat thematic, and I chose this build because I like spreading out magic and non-magic combat. I do like Fran as the Red Mage/Archer (kind of jack-of-all-trades feel), but I feel like I'm under-utilizing Balthier as the Machinist/Foebreaker (altho quick with techs and item-based support), and, out of Basch, Ashe, and Penelo, I can't decide who gets to be Knight/Black Mage and Monk/Bushi, and who bites the bullet to be the Uhlan/Time Mage.

Basch feels like a Knight but I could also see him using Katanas; however, Uhlan seems like it'll be mostly low-combo, high-damage melee along with casting support that isn't Magic Power reliant, so basically melee, and he's comparatively high-strength and low-magic. However, Monk/Bushi is also basically melee, so I'd be underutilizing Ashe or Penelo's higher magic stats, but it feels like one of them (probably Ashe) should be Knight/Black Mage.

It's not so much a question, I guess, just posting about it so it's open for discussion, if anyone wants to weigh in. I know the game doesn't really sell anybody short, so anyone can fill any role without a major issue; it's I guess more of a "casting" quibble. :cleancake:
Last edited by Jonny Friggin Panic; May 4, 2023 @ 5:45pm
Hinnyuu May 4, 2023 @ 6:12pm 
Objectively speaking, those differences do exist of course - not just based on stats, but also based on weapon animation speeds, which differ between characters. But I wouldn't worry too much about characters in terms of optimization. It's definitely something you can tweak, but it's usually such a minor thing that you'd worry about just about anything else first before you worry about that - so unless you already know a lot about the game and how to min/max stuff, it's not really something you need to be concerned about too much.

MAG in particular is fairly easy to get from gear, and any caster you make is likely to reach the 99 cap way before max level regardless of who they are - and at that point, the inherent stat difference just doesn't matter anymore since you can't go over 99 no matter what.

You absolutely CAN optimize around character-specific differences, of course. For that given setup it'd be:

Vaan: Knight/Black Mage
Balthier: Shikari/White Mage
Fran: Foebreaker/Machinist
Basch: Monk/Bushi
Penelo: Archer/Red Battlemage
Ashe: Uhlan/Time Battlemage

But as I said - you don't need to optimize at that level by any means, even if it is technically more optimal. At the end of the day, you're probably better served assigning jobs based on what you ENJOY people doing - but that choice is entirely up to you, of course. I give the info, what you do with it isn't for me to say ;) I just want to make it clear to people not to overestimate how much of a real impact this is, because in most cases it... isn't. This is often blown out of proportion by people who feel that if you're not eking out those extra 5% or whatever that'll somehow make or break something, and it really just will not. It'll mean you kill Yiazmat in 45 minutes instead of 50 minutes or whatever, and that's about it. That doesn't mean those differences don't exist - they do - but they're smaller than you might think.
It's more that I'm trying to make the choices work with the general feel of the characters. :D
Hinnyuu May 4, 2023 @ 7:15pm 
Originally posted by Jonny Friggin Panic:
It's more that I'm trying to make the choices work with the general feel of the characters. :D
That's perfectly fine. It's hard to get them to fit just right, because there's a lot of conflicting things - Ashe seems like a Knight on the one hand, but actually uses bombs in Revenant Wings (the DS game set after XII) and that kind of makes sense given that she's TECHNICALLY a terrorist kind of xD Similarly, Basch has very strong sword vibes, but is also seen using a bow in a cinematic. And so on.

At the end of the day, it'll be subjective. So you can justify it any which way you want ;)
Nezkeys May 31, 2023 @ 5:36am 
Originally posted by Jonny Friggin Panic:
I've run into a rather silly issue: I can't decide who to make what. I'm using the second setup:

Knight/Black Mage
Shikari/White Mage
Foebreaker/Machinist
Monk/Bushi
Archer/Red Battlemage
Uhlan/Time Battlemage

...but, ultimately, no matter who I put where, I feel like I'm miscasting somebody. I'm trying to be at least somewhat thematic, and I chose this build because I like spreading out magic and non-magic combat. I do like Fran as the Red Mage/Archer (kind of jack-of-all-trades feel), but I feel like I'm under-utilizing Balthier as the Machinist/Foebreaker (altho quick with techs and item-based support), and, out of Basch, Ashe, and Penelo, I can't decide who gets to be Knight/Black Mage and Monk/Bushi, and who bites the bullet to be the Uhlan/Time Mage.

Basch feels like a Knight but I could also see him using Katanas; however, Uhlan seems like it'll be mostly low-combo, high-damage melee along with casting support that isn't Magic Power reliant, so basically melee, and he's comparatively high-strength and low-magic. However, Monk/Bushi is also basically melee, so I'd be underutilizing Ashe or Penelo's higher magic stats, but it feels like one of them (probably Ashe) should be Knight/Black Mage.

It's not so much a question, I guess, just posting about it so it's open for discussion, if anyone wants to weigh in. I know the game doesn't really sell anybody short, so anyone can fill any role without a major issue; it's I guess more of a "casting" quibble. :cleancake:
Maybe the starting abilities of certain characters will sway your decision. For instance if it matters to you at all that placing jobs that get steal on characters that already start with steal (vaan balthier fran). I made sure my steal jobs were on the other three but in the end it's not super essential to have 5-6 characters who can steal so it was largely a useless "optimization". Just mentioning it though in case it sways your decision somewhat. Then there are animation times but again I think these are largely irrelevant because if you overlevel and are just one shotting most things it's not going to matter (basically it would only really benefit you in a long drawn out battle and there aren't very many of those)

Because we can now switch classes anytime at montblanc you can easily just fix any "errors" you think you have made, something that wasn't possible on launch so the headaches have been largely removed. On top of that some classes are better early on and some are better later on. For example White Mage is just not that useful until much later because other classes can heal with cura and curaga. Later on though spells like Curaja Arise Faith Bravery are very useful (although do note you can still get these spells on other classes). If you do plan to use montblanc a lot then there is no need to stress over setups that require equips found near the end of the game

Add to that because of how open the game is you can meander off into areas way before the natural progression curve to get OP equipment or materials for OP bazaar equipment. This is obviously going to wildly skew any "what is best?" comparisons if you end up with an endgame weapon on a class early on, and then there is your playstyle so suggestions at this point could either be useful or not. You limit yourself even further in a sense if you are adamant at using all 12 jobs, because some classes can benefit from the same partner

However it does get tedious if you are respeccing often and with multiple characters since you have to reapply all the LP and redo all the gambits and equipment, so you may just want to start with a setup that IS for later if you don't want to spend hours at montblanc
Last edited by Nezkeys; May 31, 2023 @ 5:42am
FafnirChaos May 31, 2023 @ 7:52am 
I'm doing a run right now with 3 magic types on 3 characters only - it is a dry casual run for backlog completion - Each character has an option for both flying and melee - so that I could easily swap weapons instead of characters - With a healer and time mage I pretty much have no problems taking out high powered enemies - although the fights tend to be extremely slow.

I can basically tank/heal while slowly downing the enemies HP, If an enemy becomes too hard during the "rage" phase- I'll just use quickings to finish it off. Working my way through hunts while slowly doing the story.
Sm0k3f47h3r May 31, 2023 @ 8:18am 
Knight/Samurai
Red Mage/Black Mage
Time Mage/White Mage

and/or

Hunter/Breaker
Black Mage/Monk
Time Mage/White Mage
Hinnyuu May 31, 2023 @ 6:07pm 
Originally posted by Sm0k3f47h3r:
Knight/Samurai
Red Mage/Black Mage
Time Mage/White Mage

and/or

Hunter/Breaker
Black Mage/Monk
Time Mage/White Mage
Not sure what that's supposed to be. What are you recommending here? As a general setup this is not very good - several highly anti-synergistic combos and massive wasted potential. This looks like one of those day-0 guide recommendations from years ago, which have been completely deprecated. Doesn't look like a RP setup either.

Unless there's some context to this, that list just looks like a really sub-par party setup.
Sm0k3f47h3r Jun 1, 2023 @ 5:10am 
Originally posted by Hinnyuu:
Originally posted by Sm0k3f47h3r:
Knight/Samurai
Red Mage/Black Mage
Time Mage/White Mage

and/or

Hunter/Breaker
Black Mage/Monk
Time Mage/White Mage
Not sure what that's supposed to be. What are you recommending here? As a general setup this is not very good - several highly anti-synergistic combos and massive wasted potential. This looks like one of those day-0 guide recommendations from years ago, which have been completely deprecated. Doesn't look like a RP setup either.

Unless there's some context to this, that list just looks like a really sub-par party setup.

ok
Nezkeys Jun 1, 2023 @ 6:08am 
Originally posted by FafnirChaos:
I'm doing a run right now with 3 magic types on 3 characters only - it is a dry casual run for backlog completion - Each character has an option for both flying and melee - so that I could easily swap weapons instead of characters - With a healer and time mage I pretty much have no problems taking out high powered enemies - although the fights tend to be extremely slow.

I can basically tank/heal while slowly downing the enemies HP, If an enemy becomes too hard during the "rage" phase- I'll just use quickings to finish it off. Working my way through hunts while slowly doing the story.
Tbh I would imagine that an all mage party would be pretty fast at killing since 3 aoe nukes is about as fast as it gets (outside of enemies that are immune/resistant to every element before you get scathe). Here are some examples of parties that I think could be good with the 3 mage constraint...

1) MAGE/MELEE MIX:
Blm/Knight or Blm/Monk or Blm/Uhlan
Rdm/Shikari
Blm/Time
(You get a karkata for the times when spells aren't great, plus two weapons for flying types, and holy melee characters with excalibur and holy lance although both of those are much later. With espers/quickenings you can get backup healing on those characters)

2) PURE MAGES:
Blm/Rdm
Blm/Rdm
Blm/Time
(Weaker on the melee side but you'd get ardor x2, dark, and slightly stronger nukes which is basically what this team is about, hit hard and fast. Plus cura/curaga from a rdm is fine and you would have two of them)

The second party would want to bring in a whm later in the game though when curaja arise bravery faith become accessible since rdm or tbm cant get any of those spells. The first party can get that on the monk or knight. Rdm curaga is still decent at endgame though. Also if you don't care about time spells then then it frees up another class. Personally I think time spells are useful though like disable immobilize slow haste float, which is why I've included them in both setups.
Last edited by Nezkeys; Jun 1, 2023 @ 6:11am
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