Why can't more games have gameplay like FFXII?

[Vic 2.0]

Say what you want about the story, characters, etc. One of the main reasons I keep coming back to this one is the gameplay. I can't get enough of the gambit system and just being able to run around and watch the combat unfold. It's truly satisfying in a way even the other FF games can't touch, IMO.

I mean, it's not perfect but it's about as close as I've seen this type of game get. What are your thoughts on the gambit system and combat?

[Mako]

Its rare but not unique. Dragon Age has similar system, and some other games too.

Why its not used in other FF games? Different teams with different vision. XIII's paradigm shift is an evolution of X-2 dress spheres. In LR they didnt even try hide it anymore and tied schematas to unlockable garbs.

[m_brent]

Completely agree, I love most mainline FF titles but this one for the game play like you said, and #1 for the nostalgia are the two I come back to most often.

[Mopey bloke]

Because being a battle manager is more boring than most other systems people have come up with. Gambits should be used in a game where you can still control one character directly. Preferably an RPG with real time combat.

[Vic 2.0]

Mopey bloke님이 먼저 게시:

Because being a battle manager is more boring than most other systems people have come up with. Gambits should be used in a game where you can still control one character directly. Preferably an RPG with real time combat.

Ironically, people have complained that this game is TOO close to real-time combat (when it was compared to its predecessors in the series). They even frequently misstate that it isn't turn-based combat anymore, but it is, it's just faster.

To me, that's part of what keeps it from being boring; it's streamlined. You can go through a lot more battles and explore a lot more places in less time than other traditional RPGs. As for comparing it to real-time combat games, I can see why someone would find it boring though. But I consider those two different genres for two different moods. Sometimes I want to play Dark Souls, but sometimes I want to play this.

[Casurin]

I think the approach works great.
Just using the gambit but in a different FF-game would of course not work. It is good cause the entire battle-system works well together with it. If the battle was turnbased the gambit-system would just feel wrong. If it was in dedicated battle-screens like most FF it would also not make much sense. If it was a more action based system then it too wouldn't make sense.

The only thing i whish they had done was not make a "remaster" yet but give us a full-fledged remake.
Cause then they could have fleshed out the gambit-system some more. Make it so that characters learn from their actions. A whitemage that see you manually casting heal on low-HP partymembers should "learn" that gambit so that you can set it up.
The gambit-system feels like something that would fit in a game with more enemies and bigger battles.

Vic 2.0님이 먼저 게시:

They even frequently misstate that it isn't turn-based combat anymore, but it is, it's just faster.

That reminds me of one person that not too long ago claimed FF-X was not turnbased :D

[Mako]

Vic 2.0님이 먼저 게시:

Mopey bloke님이 먼저 게시:

Because being a battle manager is more boring than most other systems people have come up with. Gambits should be used in a game where you can still control one character directly. Preferably an RPG with real time combat.

Ironically, people have complained that this game is TOO close to real-time combat (when it was compared to its predecessors in the series). They even frequently misstate that it isn't turn-based combat anymore, but it is, it's just faster.

Its not a mistake. FF stopped being pure turn based and moved to ATB-based systems after FF3. And it still uses ATB core logic even in newer "action" games like 15 and 7R.

Before 12 FF always had a problem I'd call "pointless micromanagement". When even in trivial fights while everything dies in 1-2 hits you still have to manually issue commands to every party member. Then do the same 20 seconds later, and again and again.
12's gambit system is great because it gives you a way to automate trivial and boring stuff but doesnt take away control completely and it still has boss fights for which you have to either heavily modify your gambits or do a lot of manual stuff or a mix of both. Its a good middleground where it doesnt throw the baby out with the bathwater.
15 with wait mode on is the closest thing to 12 in FF series but obviously its strategic depth is nowhere near 12.

[Vic 2.0]

Mako님이 먼저 게시:

Its not a mistake. FF stopped being pure turn based and moved to ATB-based systems after FF3. And it still uses ATB core logic even in newer "action" games like 15 and 7R.

Before 12 FF always had a problem I'd call "pointless micromanagement". When even in trivial fights while everything dies in 1-2 hits you still have to manually issue commands to every party member. Then do the same 20 seconds later, and again and again.
12's gambit system is great because it gives you a way to automate trivial and boring stuff but doesnt take away control completely and it still has boss fights for which you have to either heavily modify your gambits or do a lot of manual stuff or a mix of both. Its a good middleground where it doesnt throw the baby out with the bathwater.
15 with wait mode on is the closest thing to 12 in FF series but obviously its strategic depth is nowhere near 12.

Well said. I think the gambit system is perfect and should appear in future FFs. You're only cutting out the mindless monotony; you still have to use your brain to set your gambits strategically. I really don't see how people think running around holding the action button is more engaging than positioning your character on the battlefield.

[[モvェム]]

Hey, if you enjoy this type of combat you should check out the original GuildWars MMORPG (2005) if you hadn't already, it's free to play after the initial purchase and the combat system is virtually exactly the same. you can either play with human players in your team or use "heroes" (you don't get these immediately depending on which continent you choose to start in though)

Essentially they have an automated AI which you can swap to attack/guard/passive with 10 main/secondary professions to choose from; each with their own strengths and play style and hundreds if not thousands of skills and attributes to tweak plus their armor (runes/insignias) and weapons

They can be buffed with consumable items to completely annihilate hard mode content, people still play the game 15 years later simply due to how good the skill/combat system is, me included

[btw 98% of players are in the US servers, specifically Kamadan the trading town of Nightfall campaign; so don't be discouraged if you see no one upon buying the game]

[Snake Eater]

There are many games with combat like this. Old school western RPG's had combat like this. FF12 reminded me a lot of BioWare's old games. Wouldn't be surprised if this was inspired by them.

[Hinnyuu]

DJ Soul님이 먼저 게시:

There are many games with combat like this. Old school western RPG's had combat like this. FF12 reminded me a lot of BioWare's old games. Wouldn't be surprised if this was inspired by them.

FFXII came out 3 years BEFORE Dragon Age: Origins which had a very similar combat with AI conditionals etc.

If anything, it's the other way round ;)

[Vic 2.0]

Hinnyuu님이 먼저 게시:

DJ Soul님이 먼저 게시:

There are many games with combat like this. Old school western RPG's had combat like this. FF12 reminded me a lot of BioWare's old games. Wouldn't be surprised if this was inspired by them.

FFXII came out 3 years BEFORE Dragon Age: Origins which had a very similar combat with AI conditionals etc.

If anything, it's the other way round ;)

Correct. Also, I really enjoyed the Dragon Age series, but I didn't find its gameplay similar enough to FF12. I think I'm wanting almost an exact replica of the gameplay of 12, just in a different world with different characters maybe, lol.

[Snake Eater]

Hinnyuu님이 먼저 게시:

DJ Soul님이 먼저 게시:

There are many games with combat like this. Old school western RPG's had combat like this. FF12 reminded me a lot of BioWare's old games. Wouldn't be surprised if this was inspired by them.

FFXII came out 3 years BEFORE Dragon Age: Origins which had a very similar combat with AI conditionals etc.

If anything, it's the other way round ;)

I'm not talking about the gambit speciffically, but in general. It has the same gameplay as any old school western RPG, mostly like BioWare games. Real time with pause combat, companions that actually travel alongside you and which you can control, no random encounters, non-linear.

[Federicocap]

Because nowadays there are a lot of people that want no brainer smash X games.

[Vic 2.0]

Federicocap님이 먼저 게시:

Because nowadays there are a lot of people that want no brainer smash X games.

Sad but true. I mean, I like those too from time to time. But there should be way more games that use the gambit system, IMHO.

[kariyast]

The gambit system is probably one of my favorite combat mechanics in any games I've played and made me love this game, which honestly would otherwise be kinda mid for a FF title.
If they reused a similar system in a modern title or remake with all the other elements that make FF great I think it would automatically become my new favorite game.