Classes are Confusing...

[ChrisPharmD]

Okay, after doing a lot of research and seeing such conflicting opinions, I almost want to shut my mind off to thinking about this.

All I know is that I played this game without the jobs system as a kid, and I loved every second of it. I also don't remember much about it. The other thing I know is that I want Fran in my party, and apparently she has the lowest stats in the game. That sucks.

Vaan seems like a thief to me. He just has that appearance.
Penelo seems like a healer to me.
Ashe seems like a knight, but so does Basch...?
Fran seems like an archer obviously.
Balthier seems like a gun wielder.

I need somebody to think for me. If I keep trying, I'm just going to quit. Plz help. :(

[ChrisPharmD]

Oh but I need a mage...

[Hinnyuu]

Do not even worry. The actual differences between characters are MINUSCULE in the big picture. Unless you play with massive difficulty mods, you most likely would not even be able to recognize these distinctions because they matter so little. Many of the differences seem a lot bigger than they really are - some characters may have lower stats at max level, but since stats are capped at 99 that means as soon as you reach that value IT DOESN'T MATTER ANYMORE because no one can get higher than that anyway, so even if the character would have a higher stat it's a moot point because you're already capped no matter which character you pick.

Even in terms of party composition (irrespective of character selection) the game isn't nearly difficult enough to actually force you to have a particular job setup. You can pick whatever jobs you want or think are cool, and put them on any character you like - and you will still be able to complete the entire game, all superbosses included. Min/max gameplay is not even close to required in this game.

People like to obsess about the most minor things, but don't let that impression fool you into thinking you NEED to do that. You don't.

[ChrisPharmD]

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

Do not even worry. The actual differences between characters are MINUSCULE in the big picture. Unless you play with massive difficulty mods, you most likely would not even be able to recognize these distinctions because they matter so little. Many of the differences seem a lot bigger than they really are - some characters may have lower stats at max level, but since stats are capped at 99 that means as soon as you reach that value IT DOESN'T MATTER ANYMORE because no one can get higher than that anyway, so even if the character would have a higher stat it's a moot point because you're already capped no matter which character you pick.

Even in terms of party composition (irrespective of character selection) the game isn't nearly difficult enough to actually force you to have a particular job setup. You can pick whatever jobs you want or think are cool, and put them on any character you like - and you will still be able to complete the entire game, all superbosses included. Min/max gameplay is not even close to required in this game.

People like to obsess about the most minor things, but don't let that impression fool you into thinking you NEED to do that. You don't.

Yeah I've come across a lot of your posts when I Google FFXII and come across Steam conversations. You seem like you really know what you're talking about.

I was already leaning towards your post back in February that said this:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/595520/discussions/0/1700542332323860821/

My favorite setup:

Vaan: Archer/Foebreaker
Balthier: Shikari/Red Battlemage
Fran: Machinist/Uhlan
Basch: Knight/Bushi
Ashe: Red Battlemage/Black Mage
Penelo: Black Mage/Time Battlemage

Party focuses on maximum power at most stages of the game. Early game you have Archer and Machinist for their absolutely absurd damage; Burning Bow and Arcturus are both available before Raithwall and can deal fire damage which is boosted by Oil. Shikari/Red Battlemage is arguably the best tank, and will carry most of the midgame. Black Mages will provide boosted damage (Flame Staff available right away) and obliterate anything AoE. And endgame you have Knight/Bushi for Excalibur + White Robes which is unparalleled physical damage, and Shikari/Red Battlemage for Yagyu Darkblade + Black Robes as a Yiazmat killer.

It's possible Monk could be substituted somewhere, perhaps Monk/Time Battlemage instead of a second Black Mage, or a combo with access to Genji equipment. I personally prefer spells because of AoE, but a Monk with Kanya + Genji Gloves is only very slightly behind other top physical damage dealers like Kumbha.

White Mage I find mostly redundant because so many other classes gain access to white magick with the right combo and/or Esper. Heck Knight alone gets most spells.

[Hinnyuu]

Originally posted by ChrisPharmD:

I was already leaning towards your post back in February that said this:

Careful, that's February last year :P I've learned a lot since then, and would not choose anything close to what I said back then given what I know now. And in another year I'll probably be somewhere else entirely. I'm far from all-knowing and with every playthrough I refine my strategies further.

All that being said, the caveat is that I enjoy min/max for its own sake, regardless of how useful (or even measurable) it actually is. I also have certain assumptions and preferences that I operate under, and those might not be eminently transferable to other people.

The most important part is that you have fun. If you enjoy theorizing about the tiny margins that's totally fine, but always be mindful that it is just SO FAR from being required. None of this is needed in any way, and basically any conceivable setup can still beat everything in the game.

[ChrisPharmD]

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

Originally posted by ChrisPharmD:

I was already leaning towards your post back in February that said this:

Careful, that's February last year :P I've learned a lot since then, and would not choose anything close to what I said back then given what I know now. And in another year I'll probably be somewhere else entirely. I'm far from all-knowing and with every playthrough I refine my strategies further.

All that being said, the caveat is that I enjoy min/max for its own sake, regardless of how useful (or even measurable) it actually is. I also have certain assumptions and preferences that I operate under, and those might not be eminently transferable to other people.

The most important part is that you have fun. If you enjoy theorizing about the tiny margins that's totally fine, but always be mindful that it is just SO FAR from being required. None of this is needed in any way, and basically any conceivable setup can still beat everything in the game.

Actually yeah, once I submitted that post, I realized that I didn't want any of those classes on any of those characters.

Isn't Foebreaker and Time Battlemage the most useless classes according to the community?

Uggggghhhhh it's so hard to decide!!!! lmao

[Hinnyuu]

In my own opinion, Foebreaker and Archer are the worst jobs. Time Battlemage isn't great either, that is true, but it's very easy to just tack it onto Black Mage for basically free (whereas the other two are harder to integrate).

But that's not to say you can't make them work nicely if you want, and there's good arguments for any job. It depends on a lot of things.

[ChrisPharmD]

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

In my own opinion, Foebreaker and Archer are the worst jobs. Time Battlemage isn't great either, that is true, but it's very easy to just tack it onto Black Mage for basically free (whereas the other two are harder to integrate).

But that's not to say you can't make them work nicely if you want, and there's good arguments for any job. It depends on a lot of things.

Alright, so the most important question....

What should Fran be?

I'll probably make Vaan a monk, Penelo a white mage, Ashe a black mage, Basch a knight... or maybe not. I dunno.

[Zeo]

Careful with those guides Shikari/Foebreaker for example, you can find better updated info on gamefaqs discussion boards but unfortunately the old guides are the first to appear on searches.

Classes do matter for some characters, as they have awful attack speed with some weapons, Balthier for example is one of the worse gun users, not to mention that you will ditch his awesome strength by using guns. Penelo and Ashe at max level will have more MP than the rest of the group as they have better MP growth.

I made my Fran a Monk and she is holding her own very well, she have the fastest attack animation with poles, it also matches her description of weapons master.

[Hinnyuu]

Originally posted by Zeo:

Careful with those guides Shikari/Foebreaker for example, you can find better updated info on gamefaqs discussion boards but unfortunately the old guides are the first to appear on searches.

Classes do matter for some characters, as they have awful attack speed with some weapons, Balthier for example is one of the worse gun users, not to mention that you will ditch his awesome strength by using guns. Penelo and Ashe at max level will have more MP than the rest of the group as they have better MP growth.

I made my Fran a Monk and she is holding her own very well, she have the fastest attack animation with poles, it also matches her description of weapons master.

All this is true, however the differences between characters are much smaller than most people suspect. With guns on Balthier, for example, I believe the difference was 15 shots vs. 16 shots on another character in the same time frame, which is a very, very small difference - and one that would only apply in very long fights a lot of the time, because if both only get 2 shots off before the enemy dies the difference literally didn't matter.

Fran with poles is probably the most significant difference, but even there it isn't a huge deal.

Nothing will require actually min/maxing characters to that degree. Yes it's objectively better to use some jobs/weapons on some particular characters, but just "better" isn't showing the whole picture. HOW MUCH better is the real question, and in most cases that will be very little indeed.

Character choices are basically the very last thing to look at, after you've already optimized everything else and really, really want to squeeze out an extra percent somewhere even if you don't actually need it for anything. Nothing wrong with that if it's something you're into (I know I am) but just be aware of the actual extent of the differences involved.

[HideoKoncima]

I found this, if you are interested https://steamcommunity.com/app/595520/discussions/0/1700542332319186028/?ctp=2

I was in your situation, because seems there aren't correct choices, or wrong. And the fact the decision is definitive, makes me more "anxious" :D

[Hinnyuu]

Originally posted by SiegfriedM:

I found this, if you are interested https://steamcommunity.com/app/595520/discussions/0/1700542332319186028/?ctp=2

I was in your situation, because seems there aren't correct choices, or wrong. And the fact the decision is definitive, makes me more "anxious" :D

Losing that anxiety will do wonders for your enjoyment. There is no need to feel like you MUST do certain things, or like you CAN'T do other things. Not in this game.

Also, that thread is also over a year old, and likely full of questionable information when it comes to concrete class recommendations; certainly the ones in the OP are VERY far from optimal.

[ChrisPharmD]

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

Originally posted by SiegfriedM:

I found this, if you are interested https://steamcommunity.com/app/595520/discussions/0/1700542332319186028/?ctp=2

I was in your situation, because seems there aren't correct choices, or wrong. And the fact the decision is definitive, makes me more "anxious" :D

Losing that anxiety will do wonders for your enjoyment. There is no need to feel like you MUST do certain things, or like you CAN'T do other things. Not in this game.

Also, that thread is also over a year old, and likely full of questionable information when it comes to concrete class recommendations; certainly the ones in the OP are VERY far from optimal.

I think the thing that sucks is that Fran's lore friendly job is an archer, which apparently isn't optimal for her. It also sucks because you said archer sucks. Ashe apparently has the stats of a mage but her lore friendly job is a knight. And Balthier is slower with guns but that's what his lore-friendly job is.....

ARGH why??!

I'm still stuck on this. :/

I play up until I choose a job for Vaan and then I freak.

Maybe I need to go back to Final Fantasy XIV lmao

[Sakhari]

Originally posted by ChrisPharmD:

I think the thing that sucks is that Fran's lore friendly job is an archer, which apparently isn't optimal for her. It also sucks because you said archer sucks. Ashe apparently has the stats of a mage but her lore friendly job is a knight. And Balthier is slower with guns but that's what his lore-friendly job is.....

ARGH why??!

I'm still stuck on this. :/

I play up until I choose a job for Vaan and then I freak.

Maybe I need to go back to Final Fantasy XIV lmao

Seriously, it's not worth getting hung up on 'optimal' weapons/job choices for the individual characters. Yes, Balthier is technically slower with a gun than other characters but he's literally behind by ~1 shot for every 14 fired. 99.9% of fights in the game aren't going to last nearly long enough for it to matter and in those where it would make that negligible difference, your Machinist (especially a Machinist/White Mage) isn't likely to be doing the heavy lifting in DPS anyway. I almost always use Balthier as my Machinist (if I take one) just because I'm not a fan of most of his melee stances. It works fine.

I would agree that Archer isn't a great class in general so a lore-friendly Fran is kind of a wildcard (she's still perfectly functional as an Archer if that's what you want though) but otherwise just give the jobs you want to whatever character makes sense to you. You've lost far more time thinking about it already than you would have theoretically saved by making the 'correct' assignments.

[ChrisPharmD]

Why does nobody go Ashe Black Mage? Actually, I rarely see Black Mage as a primary job for any of the suggestions. Everybody chooses Red Mage or Time BM over Black Mage... that doesn't make sense. I would think BLM is better than all.

Is Time Mage the only mage that can use haste?

[ChrisPharmD]

Originally posted by Sakhari:

Originally posted by ChrisPharmD:

I think the thing that sucks is that Fran's lore friendly job is an archer, which apparently isn't optimal for her. It also sucks because you said archer sucks. Ashe apparently has the stats of a mage but her lore friendly job is a knight. And Balthier is slower with guns but that's what his lore-friendly job is.....

ARGH why??!

I'm still stuck on this. :/

I play up until I choose a job for Vaan and then I freak.

Maybe I need to go back to Final Fantasy XIV lmao

Seriously, it's not worth getting hung up on 'optimal' weapons/job choices for the individual characters. Yes, Balthier is technically slower with a gun than other characters but he's literally behind by ~1 shot for every 14 fired. 99.9% of fights in the game aren't going to last nearly long enough for it to matter and in those where it would make that negligible difference, your Machinist (especially a Machinist/White Mage) isn't likely to be doing the heavy lifting in DPS anyway. I almost always use Balthier as my Machinist (if I take one) just because I'm not a fan of most of his melee stances. It works fine.

I would agree that Archer isn't a great class in general so a lore-friendly Fran is kind of a wildcard (she's still perfectly functional as an Archer if that's what you want though) but otherwise just give the jobs you want to whatever character makes sense to you. You've lost far more time thinking about it already than you would have theoretically saved by making the 'correct' assignments.

Yeah I know. I wish I wouldn't stress so much about it.

I always get hung up on this type of stuff. It makes gaming life difficult.

I've put hundreds of hours into my 2 favorite games - Fallout 1 and Fallout 2.... but I still stress out over SPECIAL stats to this day, after all these years.