Time Magic

[Nezkeys]

Whats your opinions on this class? Whilst i thought it would be nice to have all those debilitating spells i quickly realised the only ones i ever used were disable and immobillize but that wasnt much because oil+fira or 2/3 strong physical attackers usually one shot stuff anyway especially if you end up being slightly overlevelled. Basically why waste time casting disable/immobilize (i only use these two because they are aoe) when i can cast oil and then watch the blm kill everything before they do anything lol

I can make the gambits work to do both but when i broke it down i realised this is how i use the spells...

Level 1: Slow(never and since its so low id imagine rdm gets this but i guess its nice to have on my "ultimatr support" lol)
Level 1: Immobilize (its aoe which is nice until i realised most enemies dont really need to be immobilized so never on this too)
Level 2: Reflect (never)
Level 2: Disable (regularly until i discovered oil + fira)
Level 3: Vanish/Balance (never)
Level 4: Gravity (never)
Level 4: Haste (used it for a while then decided reapplying a single target all the time sucked for so little gain so relegated it to waiting for hastega so again basically never)
Level 5: Stop/Bleed (never)
Level 6: Break/Countdown (never)
Level 7: Float/Berserk (always)
Level 8: Vanishga/Warp (never)
Level 9: Reflectga/Slowga (not got yet but i imagine id use them because they are aoe)
Level 10: Graviga/Hastega (obviously id use Hastega)

Level 1 Green Magic: Oil/Decoy (permanently unless enemy is immune to oil which isnt much)
Level 3 Green Magic: Bubble (permanently)
*both of these are attained via the whm so no need for any other class or esper

In hindsight i sacrificed a lot of hp for basically the ability to cast berserk and float right? I reckon I could have gone with whm/machinist and used famfrit to get levels 8-10 time magic but then id have nobody to cast float or berserk for the majority of the game and would have to achieve this via float motes/all 3 with steel polyns (meh) and berserker bracers.

On my second playthrough i may skip this class entirely. Whats your thoughts anyway?

[RabidChoco]

Just remember, each Esper can only be claimed once, and the Esper that lets you get the upper-level Time Magick on the Machinist is acquired at the end of the story.

Then again, I went with the 12-job run, effectively split things up in a manner that gave me two parties.

And (I know this isn't time-mage specific, but still worth mentioning) Oil sticks to most mobs and is AOE, so combining that with your Red or Black blasting with Firaga is great for clearing paths.

[Nezkeys]

Escrito originalmente por RabidChoco:

Just remember, each Esper can only be claimed once, and the Esper that lets you get the upper-level Time Magick on the Machinist is acquired at the end of the story.

Then again, I went with the 12-job run, effectively split things up in a manner that gave me two parties.

And (I know this isn't time-mage specific, but still worth mentioning) Oil sticks to most mobs and is AOE, so combining that with your Red or Black blasting with Firaga is great for clearing paths.

Yeah im in the middle of a 12 job run where im using white time. This discussion pertains to a second run i will be doing where i wont place such restriction. So yeah I already know how ridiculously op flame staff+oil+firaga is lol. My whm casts oil, blm firagas. In that time my shikari is usually able to get one steal off. Not really sure how much more efficient it gets than that for clearing random enemies. Gets annoying when theyre immune to oil but like you say doesnt happen much

And also about the whm/machinist combo i agree thats my only issue with it...to get the hastega is when you've finished the game pretty much so its basically just a whm with a bit more hp for the whole of the game (cause if you wanted a pure machinist dps whm is one of the worst combos imo). I mean its a top tier support whm but for like a few optional extra bosses (which are probably ok with other whms anyway). Mind you hastega is acquired pretty late on time magic as well. The problem with whm/shikari is you dont get hastega (and neither does whm/foebreaker the other whm tank people talk about a lot..its pretty annoying the only two sources of it are too late to matter really). It also means that means one of your actual attackers would have to cast hastega and whatever else time magic and that means they're obviously not attacking...this is why im advocate for the white/time since you can focus on just dealing damage with two characters. Sure you get a lot to do but its manageable if you kust make the right compromises. I guess if someone wanted to split up the time magic without doing whm/machinist (famfrit) these would be viable options for attackers wasting turns buffing and debuffing lol....

Monk/Time
Shikari/Time
Knight/Time
Uhlan/Time

Obviously in a 12 job run tho people gonna be wanting combos like knight/bushi, shikari/foebreaker, and blm/monk tho. Not that i agree with combos like blm/monk tho as its just a nuker with hp (blm dominates the pairing so wastes all monks potential). And no i dont care about heals on a blm. The only time you would need to switch to poles is if a boss is immune to all magic. Since bosses already reduce or are immune to a lot of magic damage and enfeebles chances are most people go in with two berserked melees instead). People pair "opposites" a lot but there is something to be said about having the choice between two different melee weapons for the whole game instead of one. Like monk/uhlan for example...you could just roll with whatever the best katana or spear was at any given time and one focuses on phys def weak enemies and the other focus on mag def weak enemies. I dont think you even need the two "fliers" split up either unless you want genji gloves on monk poles because you have a mage which deals with fliers anyway lol, along with possibly shades of black and telekinesis on other characters

[Hinnyuu]

Escrito originalmente por RabidChoco:

Just remember, each Esper can only be claimed once, and the Esper that lets you get the upper-level Time Magick on the Machinist is acquired at the end of the story.

I see this mentioned a lot - apparently people forget where Hastega itself is found. They're fairly close together.

[Nezkeys]

Im on my way to giruvegan and still havent seen it. Either i missed it or you only get it late game when you cant really utilize it much. Having said that tho a lot of rpgs in general have this system (give you some op equips for beating a games optional superboss). Since i last pllayed this game 10 years ago i have definitely forgog where hastega is acquired i just have a feeling its late

[Serafie1999AD]

I found Hastega yesterday, when I was going for the Ultima Esper on top of the Great Crystal. The spell is located behind a large number of timed gates. It's unlikely that you're strong enough to get it during the first, story visit to Giruvegan, unless you know exactly what you are doing and just run away from every battle.

That said, I could have given Famfrit to my White Mage/Machinist to get lots of late-game time magic, but I decided to give him to my Black Mage/Monk instead. So far, the extra Arise has been much more useful than the Machinist's time spells.

[Nezkeys]

Escrito originalmente por Serafie1999AD:

I found Hastega yesterday, when I was going for the Ultima Esper on top of the Great Crystal. The spell is located behind a large number of timed gates. It's unlikely that you're strong enough to get it during the first, story visit to Giruvegan, unless you know exactly what you are doing and just run away from every battle.

That said, I could have given Famfrit to my White Mage/Machinist to get lots of late-game time magic, but I decided to give him to my Black Mage/Monk instead. So far, the extra Arise has been much more useful than the Machinist's time spells.

Dont you still need to actually find/buy the hastega spell even if you beat famfrit at the start of the game and have the licence points for it tho? I mean what would be the earliest stage you could get the spell from the great crystal as you say AND beat famfrit? I dont know where famfrit is but i havent encountered it yet. Trying to hold off on checkinh a guide every 5 mins for everything as it ruins immersion. The only time i do it is if i see an enemy pop up that ive never seen in an area before and check if its a rare game with a steal i can farm. I accidentally killed a few rare games (gladius drop, snake in golmore, and something else i forgot) before joining the hunt club so not sure if i screwed myself

[Hinnyuu]

Escrito originalmente por Nezkeys:

I mean what would be the earliest stage you could get the spell from the great crystal as you say AND beat famfrit?

Famfrit is a story Esper, the very last one you get, in fact. It's available shortly before the end of the game, at the end of the big endgame dungeon (not counting the final dungeon, of course, since you can't go back from there and it contains no loot).
Hastega is inside the Great Crystal, in the extra area you can't visit during the story portion. This is right before the dungeon where Famfrit is in. You can go and grab Hastega before you get Famfrit, but many people finish the story first before tackling the Great Crystal 2.0. In either case, the spell and the Esper are fairly close together in terms of progression.

Escrito originalmente por Nezkeys:

I accidentally killed a few rare games (gladius drop, snake in golmore, and something else i forgot) before joining the hunt club so not sure if i screwed myself

You cannot "screw yourself" out of trophy game. Trophy game is very different from regular rare enemies, because trophy game do not even spawn before you are a member of the Hunt Club. The enemies you mentioned are all regular rare mobs that respawn as many times as you like. Trophy game does not respawn, and can only be killed once. But since you can't kill them before you are a member, you also can't miss the trophy they drop. So don't worry.

[Nezkeys]

Escrito originalmente por Hinnyuu:

Escrito originalmente por Nezkeys:

I mean what would be the earliest stage you could get the spell from the great crystal as you say AND beat famfrit?

Famfrit is a story Esper, the very last one you get, in fact. It's available shortly before the end of the game, at the end of the big endgame dungeon (not counting the final dungeon, of course, since you can't go back from there and it contains no loot).
Hastega is inside the Great Crystal, in the extra area you can't visit during the story portion. This is right before the dungeon where Famfrit is in. You can go and grab Hastega before you get Famfrit, but many people finish the story first before tackling the Great Crystal 2.0. In either case, the spell and the Esper are fairly close together in terms of progression.

Escrito originalmente por Nezkeys:

I accidentally killed a few rare games (gladius drop, snake in golmore, and something else i forgot) before joining the hunt club so not sure if i screwed myself

You cannot "screw yourself" out of trophy game. Trophy game is very different from regular rare enemies, because trophy game do not even spawn before you are a member of the Hunt Club. The enemies you mentioned are all regular rare mobs that respawn as many times as you like. Trophy game does not respawn, and can only be killed once. But since you can't kill them before you are a member, you also can't miss the trophy they drop. So don't worry.

Well it would have mattered of i killed bluesang is what im saying cause then i have like 0-1 damascus steel. Thats the only time i check tho as dont wanna be checking guides every single area

[Hinnyuu]

Escrito originalmente por Nezkeys:

Well it would have mattered of i killed bluesang is what im saying cause then i have like 0-1 damascus steel. Thats the only time i check tho as dont wanna be checking guides every single area

Don't worry about that either. While some trophy games are the most convenient source of certain materials, none of them are the ONLY source of that material. Worst case you just lose a little time because you need to get the item from a different place where it takes a bit more time to get.

[JD]

Escrito originalmente por Hinnyuu:

Shikari doesn't need Genji Gear, by the way. Because of the way ninja swords scale with Speed, Germinas Boots are generally a greater damage increase than Genji Gloves by a decent margin.

Do you find the Genji Armor / Helmet's innate counter traits to be worth the loss of defense and strength from upgrading to Maximillian / Grand Armor level gear? I like having my decoyed tank being able to dish out counter damage, and if you use reverse in harder fights the defense stat doesn't matter. Late game I am starting to use Bushi as my usual tank for this very purpose and it has been pretty effective, especially after you get the Kumbha and can pair with a shield for mobs that don't ignore evade.

[Sakhari]

Escrito originalmente por JDHski:

Do you find the Genji Armor / Helmet's innate counter traits to be worth the loss of defense and strength from upgrading to Maximillian / Grand Armor level gear?

For weapons like Spears, Guns, Greatswords, etc that have a low/no combo rate, it might be a decent choice, especially if your strength is already at or near the cap (or doesn't matter in the Gun's case) but I wouldn't set this up on a Glove-boosted Kumbha or Kanya user.

Counterattacks can't combo so the occasional normal-animation poke is just slowing down the charge cycle on your main source of damage (fast-animation combos).

[Nezkeys]

Escrito originalmente por JDHski:

Escrito originalmente por Hinnyuu:

Shikari doesn't need Genji Gear, by the way. Because of the way ninja swords scale with Speed, Germinas Boots are generally a greater damage increase than Genji Gloves by a decent margin.

Do you find the Genji Armor / Helmet's innate counter traits to be worth the loss of defense and strength from upgrading to Maximillian / Grand Armor level gear? I like having my decoyed tank being able to dish out counter damage, and if you use reverse in harder fights the defense stat doesn't matter. Late game I am starting to use Bushi as my usual tank for this very purpose and it has been pretty effective, especially after you get the Kumbha and can pair with a shield for mobs that don't ignore evade.

I cant really say in relation to this game but if it supports it then glass cannon all the way. Can always pop a phoenix down or arise if they die. Like one esper i was trying to think defensively and ran out of time and then saw i needed to kill it quickly. I just made a super offensive loadout and it was much easier. Also i like usi mng battle harness on my melees until i get berserk bracers, germinas boots, hermes sandals, genji gloves. All i ever used on my blm was the ring that ignores enemy reflect(opal ring i think). And on my whm/time the sage ring that halves all mp costs which is pretty damn op on this combo since it has a lot to do

[JD]

Escrito originalmente por Sakhari:

Escrito originalmente por JDHski:

Do you find the Genji Armor / Helmet's innate counter traits to be worth the loss of defense and strength from upgrading to Maximillian / Grand Armor level gear?

Counterattacks can't combo so the occasional normal-animation poke is just slowing down the charge cycle on your main source of damage (fast-animation combos).

I'm not sure I agree with this, but I don't really have data to back it up either. I've just found my countering tank to be causing more damage with Genji than with different armor, especially in areas where you get swarmed with a lot of enemies.

[Hinnyuu]

Counterattacks are of very marginal usefulness. As was rightly said, counterattacks are incredibly anti-synergistic with combos for various reasons. So if you are using a high combo weapon (e.g. while tanking with Reverse and no shield) then counterattacks are both less frequent (because they can't happen while you're doing something else) and detrimental (because they stop you from charging your attack, and can't combo themselves).

A situation where they CAN potentially be useful is during trash clears, where there's lots of enemies and you aren't really doing anything else. It'll still be a fairly minor part of your damage, of course, especially if you are using Main Gauche. Also, endgame areas are often riddled with undead and it might just be better to simply sit there and spam offensive heals on them (if your tank can cast). As before, the moment you're doing something else, counterattacks lose a lot of value.

All in all, it's a very very small benefit to put Genji Gear on a tank. It depends on the alternatives, of course. If you have someone else who would benefit from the stats (Genji Gear has nice stat bonuses) chances are they're better off with it just for that reason alone. Even if the gear is just lying around, you have to ask yourself if your tank wouldn't be better off using e.g. mystic armor to heal more, or light armor for more HP etc. YMMV with the setup you are running.