Time Magic

[Nezkeys]

Whats your opinions on this class? Whilst i thought it would be nice to have all those debilitating spells i quickly realised the only ones i ever used were disable and immobillize but that wasnt much because oil+fira or 2/3 strong physical attackers usually one shot stuff anyway especially if you end up being slightly overlevelled. Basically why waste time casting disable/immobilize (i only use these two because they are aoe) when i can cast oil and then watch the blm kill everything before they do anything lol

I can make the gambits work to do both but when i broke it down i realised this is how i use the spells...

Level 1: Slow(never and since its so low id imagine rdm gets this but i guess its nice to have on my "ultimatr support" lol)
Level 1: Immobilize (its aoe which is nice until i realised most enemies dont really need to be immobilized so never on this too)
Level 2: Reflect (never)
Level 2: Disable (regularly until i discovered oil + fira)
Level 3: Vanish/Balance (never)
Level 4: Gravity (never)
Level 4: Haste (used it for a while then decided reapplying a single target all the time sucked for so little gain so relegated it to waiting for hastega so again basically never)
Level 5: Stop/Bleed (never)
Level 6: Break/Countdown (never)
Level 7: Float/Berserk (always)
Level 8: Vanishga/Warp (never)
Level 9: Reflectga/Slowga (not got yet but i imagine id use them because they are aoe)
Level 10: Graviga/Hastega (obviously id use Hastega)

Level 1 Green Magic: Oil/Decoy (permanently unless enemy is immune to oil which isnt much)
Level 3 Green Magic: Bubble (permanently)
*both of these are attained via the whm so no need for any other class or esper

In hindsight i sacrificed a lot of hp for basically the ability to cast berserk and float right? I reckon I could have gone with whm/machinist and used famfrit to get levels 8-10 time magic but then id have nobody to cast float or berserk for the majority of the game and would have to achieve this via float motes/all 3 with steel polyns (meh) and berserker bracers.

On my second playthrough i may skip this class entirely. Whats your thoughts anyway?

[Mac]

Slow affects most bosses and halves their actions. It's one of the most useful spells in the game.

But red mages get it too. Haste and Float are the only staples that Time Mages get that others don't.

[Nezkeys]

Originally posted by The God Canubys:

Slow affects most bosses and halves their actions. It's one of the most useful spells in the game.

But red mages get it too. Haste and Float are the only staples that Time Mages get that others don't.

And berserk? Which is pretty much a staple id say. Also does it really? Most times i fought hunts espers and bosses that really matter they all had a list of immunities to almost every spell hence why i think black mage is usually terrible on bosses as two beserked melee characters destroy most bosses. I mean i heard i can get berserk bracers from trial mode so wouldnt even need time 7. Id still have to use libra/steel polyns to deal with traps tho if i got rid of time mage (meh) but i think this is doable i suppose except in necrohol of nabudis as i think that place is impossible if all characters arent avoiding traps. Can i farm float motes?

[Hinnyuu]

Time Battlemage is fairly useless imo. There's a couple decently useful Time Magic spells, of course, but as was rightly said above Haste and Float are the only ones not available to anyone else.

Red Battlemage, which is an overall much more useful class, can cover most of the spells that are useful at early/mid game - Disable/Immobilize are great for taking on enemies you shouldn't have any business with at that point in the game. Balance is useful for similar reasons, particularly combined with Bubble and Reflect(ga).

Haste remains the big factor, of course. It's undeniably useful. The question is, is it useful enough to take along a dud like Time Battlemage? Obviously in something like the inexplicably 12-job setup that's not a question. But when such arbitrary concerns are not involved, I believe the answer is quite simply: no.
To be more precise, I'd say no to Haste - but not to Hastega. The reason being the already mentioned fact that Machinist can use an Esper to gain access to this spell. Machinist, of course, is one of my perennial favorites thanks to their absurd damage output in early/mid game, and combined with White Mage they are also my favorite superboss tank (using Reverse), being able to heal MP-free with Dark Shot + dark absorb gear as well as maintain both Bravery and Haste on your berserked damage dealers.

If you DO insist on taking a Time Battlemage (for whatever reason, personal preference being a completely legitimate one) the two combinations I found least painful were Archer/Time Battlemage and Monk/Time Battlemage. The former loses the least out of the deal, since an Archer with heavy armor is already about as good as it gets for that job in terms of damage output. Monk does lose a chance for Genji Gloves if you pair them with Time Battlemage, but is a solid support class with many useful skills (e.g. Expose/Wither and Curaja). They do benefit from heavy armor, of course, but losing Genji Gloves as a high-combo weapon user is quite the blow so don't expect it to become a main DPS - which I suppose is a given, since you obviously want to cast spells so you can't be berserked.

Every other combination I've tested has been inferior, but that of course will vary with playstyle and preference.

EDIT:

Originally posted by Nezkeys:

And berserk? Which is pretty much a staple id say.

It is, but it is also absolutely trivial to get from an item, which is available at a number of shops in the game in infinite quantity. Items being quicker to use and MP-free, this should be preferable even WITH a Time Battlemage.

Originally posted by Nezkeys:

Can i farm float motes?

Float Motes can be bought at the Baknamy merchant in Nabudis after reaching Pharos. Also, the entrances to Nabudis are basically the only time you really worry about traps a lot. Very often you can either walk around them or just take them in the face and heal/raise afterward. Float is a convenience (and a disappointingly mundane graphical effect, I must say), but I suppose if you value it enough to take a Time Battlemage who am I to tell you otherwise.

None of this is going to make or break a party. Above all else, play what you personally enjoy.

[Nezkeys]

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

Time Battlemage is fairly useless imo. There's a couple decently useful Time Magic spells, of course, but as was rightly said above Haste and Float are the only ones not available to anyone else.

Red Battlemage, which is an overall much more useful class, can cover most of the spells that are useful at early/mid game - Disable/Immobilize are great for taking on enemies you shouldn't have any business with at that point in the game. Balance is useful for similar reasons, particularly combined with Bubble and Reflect(ga).

Haste remains the big factor, of course. It's undeniably useful. The question is, is it useful enough to take along a dud like Time Battlemage? Obviously in something like the inexplicably 12-job setup that's not a question. But when such arbitrary concerns are not involved, I believe the answer is quite simply: no.
To be more precise, I'd say no to Haste - but not to Hastega. The reason being the already mentioned fact that Machinist can use an Esper to gain access to this spell. Machinist, of course, is one of my perennial favorites thanks to their absurd damage output in early/mid game, and combined with White Mage they are also my favorite superboss tank (using Reverse), being able to heal MP-free with Dark Shot + dark absorb gear as well as maintain both Bravery and Haste on your berserked damage dealers.

If you DO insist on taking a Time Battlemage (for whatever reason, personal preference being a completely legitimate one) the two combinations I found least painful were Archer/Time Battlemage and Monk/Time Battlemage. The former loses the least out of the deal, since an Archer with heavy armor is already about as good as it gets for that job in terms of damage output. Monk does lose a chance for Genji Gloves if you pair them with Time Battlemage, but is a solid support class with many useful skills (e.g. Expose/Wither and Curaja). They do benefit from heavy armor, of course, but losing Genji Gloves as a high-combo weapon user is quite the blow so don't expect it to become a main DPS - which I suppose is a given, since you obviously want to cast spells so you can't be berserked.

Every other combination I've tested has been inferior, but that of course will vary with playstyle and preference.

Thinking about it tho ive toyed with the idea of shikari/time (putting time on a tank) but then if you have a healer thats only 1 person actually doing damage as two people are messing around "preparing" the battle. It always comes back to the fact that the time magic has to be on the whm imo if you want to have two people attacking and i do agree that the only ones it would really use regularly are on the machinist via famfrit. With protect shell haste regen bubble all being single target tho its not uncommon to see one of these falling off before you can even do any debilitating time magic or heal lol

Im still curious how it would deal with berserk and float which imo are very useful. Farming/buying bacchus wine and float motes and using them on the whm/machinist for example? Is this expensive/time consuming? And yeah some traps actually auto make you lose a battle if theyre next to a group of enemies and you get confused on mutiple characters on something as nobody gonna just be walking around with power amulets on. Although ive entertained the ribbon on all 3 for random stuff that doesnt get one shot

Another issue with shikari/foebreaker(vaan) and whm/time is that the shikari is stealing and the whm is obviously doing no damage. This is ok tho if everything dies to oil:fira or the one melee dps one shots multiple enemies before they can do anything nasty. As far as im aware whm/machinist can steal...so i could have had the whm stealing then healing (shtealing lol) and have two melees just attack. On bosses its annoying when you have to steal on a character you want beserked as have to turn off the whms berserk gambit then turn off the steal gambit and reapply the berserk on that character. Having said that i was never using bacchus wines.

I also sorta feel like shikari/foe is a weird one for another reason...if you wanna cast breaks over and over you cant be berserked...and thats also probably a waste of genji gloves, except maybe one fight where its worth it to apend ages preparing the fight with your eventual genjid beserker.... yiazmat?

[Hinnyuu]

Originally posted by Nezkeys:

Farming/buying bacchus wine and float motes and using them on the whm/machinist for example? Is this expensive/time consuming?

Trivial. Money isn't a factor later in the game, you earn more than you could ever realistically spend. And at early game the one pair of Berserker Bracers you can pick up after Raithwall are more than enough since berserk is often overkill at that stage in the game anyway.

Originally posted by Nezkeys:

And yeah some traps actually auto make you lose a battle if theyre next to a group of enemies and you get confused on mutiple characters on something as nobody gonna just be walking around with power amulets on.

That's SO rare, though. And if you're really scared of the what, 3 places or whatever where this could be a factor use one of the Float Motes you've picked up incidentally by then. Hardly a reason for an entire job.

[Nezkeys]

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

Originally posted by Nezkeys:

Farming/buying bacchus wine and float motes and using them on the whm/machinist for example? Is this expensive/time consuming?

Trivial. Money isn't a factor later in the game, you earn more than you could ever realistically spend. And at early game the one pair of Berserker Bracers you can pick up after Raithwall are more than enough since berserk is often overkill at that stage in the game anyway.

Originally posted by Nezkeys:

And yeah some traps actually auto make you lose a battle if theyre next to a group of enemies and you get confused on mutiple characters on something as nobody gonna just be walking around with power amulets on.

That's SO rare, though. And if you're really scared of the what, 3 places or whatever where this could be a factor use one of the Float Motes you've picked up incidentally by then. Hardly a reason for an entire job.

Well you dont know what the traps will do so you could waste a float mote on a trap that is irrelevant. Generally all the ones in necrohol are pretty difficult to avoid because your teammates set them off...and all of them always affect the party in some unrecoverable way.

The fact you say late game obviously means that for most of the game youd have limited uses of bacchus wine and float moats. I think i have like less than 10 of each. With everything factored in tho if you can struggle through without float and berserk spells i do think machinist is the best option for a full support whm. The dps options are just a bonus as i rarely will be attacking. Shikari/whm means applying time magic with someone else for example and thats one less person attacking.

Also as a side note i just noticed if you have rdm/blm with whm/shikari it appears chuchulain esper becomes pointless on both. This means the only other option would be to give uhlan wither...but in a no 12 job party chances are nobody is even running uhlan lol. Well theres shades of black for foebreaker...but thats the same sort of mehness

[Hinnyuu]

Originally posted by Nezkeys:

Well you dont know what the traps will do so you could waste a float mote on a trap that is irrelevant.

Many traps aren't random. Maybe even most, I haven't counted. Always a swarm trap in the hidden area in Nabreus Deadlands, for example. Always a confusion/berserk trap in Lhusu Mines Site 11. And so on.

Originally posted by Nezkeys:

The fact you say late game obviously means that for most of the game youd have limited uses of bacchus wine and float moats.

Bacchus's Wine is actually available fairly early and easily. And as I said, early game it's often just not needed anyway because things die so fast anyway if you get the good weapons early. Late game is a focus because there buffs like berserk actually make a difference.

Float is almost exclusively QoL. Nabudis can be circumvented by using motes or Steel Poleyns when entering/exiting. That's easy to do, just a little more fiddly.

[Eltia]

Most time magic are situational, except Float and Hastega. The debuff spells, like Slow, Immobile, Disable, Stop and Bleed are great if they stick. Oil is wonderful with Ardor (again, if Oil sticks). Reflectga is situational and simplifies some battles. Only use I found with Break is farming Lv. 99 Red Chocobo. Never use Vanishga or Warp. If you want to use Gravity, you might as well use Zeromus: Bubble him, then reverse Elixir and do Big Bang.

For practical purpose though, if your goal is to enfeeble, just do a reverse Remedy with a character that has Remedy Lore 3.

[Nezkeys]

Originally posted by Eltia:

Most time magic are situational, except Float and Hastega. The debuff spells, like Slow, Immobile, Disable, Stop and Bleed are great if they stick. Oil is wonderful with Ardor (again, if Oil sticks). Reflectga is situational and simplifies some battles. Only use I found with Break is farming Lv. 99 Red Chocobo. Never use Vanishga or Warp. If you want to use Gravity, you might as well use Zeromus: Bubble him, then reverse Elixir and do Big Bang.

For practical purpose though, if your goal is to enfeeble, just do a reverse Remedy with a character that has Remedy Lore 3.

I love enfeebling and they almost always stick. The only time i have trouble is when theyre straight up immune to whatever it is. Its a shame only three of them are aoe and 99% of the time they dont work on bosses and one of them is pretty useless anyway. Disable is obviously good but when you one shot everything who needs enfeebles lol...i love weapons that enfeeble. Shame we dont get a spell or weapon that inflicts bad breath on these mofos. Edit: i heard a secret sword does this...need that sword in my life lol

[Hinnyuu]

Originally posted by Eltia:

Oil is wonderful with Ardor (again, if Oil sticks)

Oil is Green Magicks, not Time Magicks.

Disable I use mostly when fighting mobs a LOT higher in level than me, like e.g. when going to Henne Mines back entrance at lvl 15-20 to fight the lvl 60+ Abysteels there. It's very tedious to do without Disable.

[Nezkeys]

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

Originally posted by Eltia:

Oil is wonderful with Ardor (again, if Oil sticks)

Oil is Green Magicks, not Time Magicks.

Disable I use mostly when fighting mobs a LOT higher in level than me, like e.g. when going to Henne Mines back entrance at lvl 15-20 to fight the lvl 60+ Abysteels there. It's very tedious to do without Disable.

Yeah it becomes trivial when all of your characters end the fight with one hit. Even my fran who is 15 levels lower than everyone else two shots

[JD]

I've had decent results with Time / Shikari. Damage output is not great, but it can tank and buff the party with haste and berserk, which accomplishes the same result. Crossbows are also good for debuffing, and access to heavy armor (albeit without Genji) can be useful at times. More useful than having access to Black Robes + Yagyu which everyone seems to fawn over, but is really only useful for Ultima and Yiazmat. Not the strongest party member by any measure but gets the job done.

[Hinnyuu]

Originally posted by JDHski:

I've had decent results with Time / Shikari. Damage output is not great, but it can tank and buff the party with haste and berserk, which accomplishes the same result. Crossbows are also good for debuffing, and access to heavy armor (albeit without Genji) can be useful at times. More useful than having access to Black Robes + Yagyu which everyone seems to fawn over, but is really only useful for Ultima and Yiazmat. Not the strongest party member by any measure but gets the job done.

Yagyu Darkblade + Black Robes is the highest ninja sword damage even against element-neutral enemies. It's no Kumbha or Kanya, but it's respectable as a combo hitter. It does suffer against resistance/immunity, of course, of which there is a good amount for dark in endgame areas.

Shikari doesn't need Genji Gear, by the way. Because of the way ninja swords scale with Speed, Germinas Boots are generally a greater damage increase than Genji Gloves by a decent margin.

Personally, I tried Shikari/Time Battlemage but found it underwhelming. You rely exclusively on Cura if you want to heal (and that only with an Esper), which is noticeably anemic past the early midgame. That means you need another party member to take on healing, lowering overall damage output. It's not impossible of course, just not all that efficient. Haste is nice, but doesn't exactly make up for keeping a damage dealer out of berserk so they can heal.

[Nezkeys]

Yeah i gotta agree. If you split whm/times (or whm/machinist later on with hastega etc) duties up it means you only have one attacker instead of two. Id rather have an ultimate support and two attackers than a healer tank/support dps.

[Nezkeys]

Originally posted by Nezkeys:

Yeah i gotta agree. If you split whm/time (or whm/machinist later on with hastega etc) duties up it means you only have one attacker instead of two. Id rather have an ultimate support and two attackers than a healer tank/support dps.

*ive tried to delete this duplication and the one above btw but its not doing anything