How is Penelo doing so much more damage than Vaan?

[-_-]

I'm near the beginning of the game. Vaan is sitting at 15 Attack Power and 25 Strength. Penelo is sitting at 14 Attack Power, and 22 Strength.

I have already made Vaan a monk, But I've yet to decide what to make Penelo. I noticed once I equipped Vaan with an Oaken Staff after making him a Monk, his attack went up slightly but he started doing less damage. Penelo is still using her initial dagger and she's doing way more damage.

Do enemies have weaknesses to certain types of weaponry? How can you tell?

[Scheneighnay]

Damage calculation is also different with every weapon, or at least that was the case with the original version.
A few off the top of my head-

-maces, staves, and katanas use your magic power against the enemy's defense
-poles use your strength against the enemy's magic defense
-daggers bows and ninja swords take your speed into account somewhere
-guns and measures ignore defense entirely
-axes, hammers, and bombs have the highest max hit and lowest min hit

allegedly jobs change how damage is calculated now but I haven't seen it confirmed by a reliable source.

[-_-]

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

allegedly jobs change how damage is calculated now but I haven't seen it confirmed by a reliable source.

That's really odd to me... I wish it was more straightforward in explaining it if that's the case.

[Melodia]

Jobs don't give any stats. They shouldn't be doing anything different.
Most likely the enemies have higher mdef than pdef. Also, daggers use the speed stat as well as strength, which actually causes a basic Dagger to be better than a Broad Sword and likely is a factor in the Oaken Staff doing less.

[Scheneighnay]

Originally posted by Melodia:

Jobs don't give any stats. They shouldn't be doing anything different.
Most likely the enemies have higher mdef than pdef. Also, daggers use the speed stat as well as strength, which actually causes a basic Dagger to be better than a Broad Sword and likely is a factor in the Oaken Staff doing less.

someone was trying to claim a while back that a strength-based job can use katanas without having ♥♥♥♥ damage output from lack of magic power

[Hinnyuu]

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

allegedly jobs change how damage is calculated now but I haven't seen it confirmed by a reliable source.

Then you shouldn't spread that information :) Jobs definitely don't change how damage is calculated, it's entirely based on the weapon you are using.

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

someone was trying to claim a while back that a strength-based job can use katanas without having ♥♥♥♥ damage output from lack of magic power

It's all about the values involved. You don't need maximum MAG to do decent damage. STR alone still increases katana damage. It's a fairly complicated formula in terms of scaling, because the absolute value of the stats fluctuates based not just on how much you already have, but also with your level. You could well do great damage with very low MAG, but you could also very well be doing more if you balanced the two better. Do the math if you want to know!

As for OP's question:

Daggers scale with STR and SPD. Staves scale with STR and MAG. At low levels, it's not uncommon to see weird outcomes because the impact of the stats is larger, so even a small difference in SPD or MAG could have caused that very noticeable disparity. SPD-based weapons additionally have an edge at lower levels because they have a more generous damage formula (divided by 218, where STR-based is divided by 256) but in return their efficacy diminishes somewhat as you level up because SPD is the stat that grows the least with levels. For example, Penelo starts with 20 STR 24 SPD at lvl 1. At lvl 50, she's at 45 STR 30 SPD. At lvl 99, she's at 70 STR 36 SPD.

Weapons are quite complicated in this game.

[-_-]

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

allegedly jobs change how damage is calculated now but I haven't seen it confirmed by a reliable source.

Then you shouldn't spread that information :) Jobs definitely don't change how damage is calculated, it's entirely based on the weapon you are using.

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

someone was trying to claim a while back that a strength-based job can use katanas without having ♥♥♥♥ damage output from lack of magic power

It's all about the values involved. You don't need maximum MAG to do decent damage. STR alone still increases katana damage. It's a fairly complicated formula in terms of scaling, because the absolute value of the stats fluctuates based not just on how much you already have, but also with your level. You could well do great damage with very low MAG, but you could also very well be doing more if you balanced the two better. Do the math if you want to know!

As for OP's question:

Daggers scale with STR and SPD. Staves scale with STR and MAG. At low levels, it's not uncommon to see weird outcomes because the impact of the stats is larger, so even a small difference in SPD or MAG could have caused that very noticeable disparity. SPD-based weapons additionally have an edge at lower levels because they have a more generous damage formula (divided by 218, where STR-based is divided by 256) but in return their efficacy diminishes somewhat as you level up because SPD is the stat that grows the least with levels. For example, Penelo starts with 20 STR 24 SPD at lvl 1. At lvl 50, she's at 45 STR 30 SPD. At lvl 99, she's at 70 STR 36 SPD.

Weapons are quite complicated in this game.

Thanks. I do wish there was some sort of indicator in the game to give an idea of exactly what the outcome would be. I don't remember where it explained any of that.

[Scheneighnay]

Originally posted by -_-:

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

Then you shouldn't spread that information :) Jobs definitely don't change how damage is calculated, it's entirely based on the weapon you are using.


It's all about the values involved. You don't need maximum MAG to do decent damage. STR alone still increases katana damage. It's a fairly complicated formula in terms of scaling, because the absolute value of the stats fluctuates based not just on how much you already have, but also with your level. You could well do great damage with very low MAG, but you could also very well be doing more if you balanced the two better. Do the math if you want to know!

As for OP's question:

Daggers scale with STR and SPD. Staves scale with STR and MAG. At low levels, it's not uncommon to see weird outcomes because the impact of the stats is larger, so even a small difference in SPD or MAG could have caused that very noticeable disparity. SPD-based weapons additionally have an edge at lower levels because they have a more generous damage formula (divided by 218, where STR-based is divided by 256) but in return their efficacy diminishes somewhat as you level up because SPD is the stat that grows the least with levels. For example, Penelo starts with 20 STR 24 SPD at lvl 1. At lvl 50, she's at 45 STR 30 SPD. At lvl 99, she's at 70 STR 36 SPD.

Weapons are quite complicated in this game.

Thanks. I do wish there was some sort of indicator in the game to give an idea of exactly what the outcome would be. I don't remember where it explained any of that.

maybe buried somewhere in the tutorial menu
I just remember it because when I got the original version of XII it came with a guidebook.

[Hinnyuu]

Originally posted by -_-:

Thanks. I do wish there was some sort of indicator in the game to give an idea of exactly what the outcome would be. I don't remember where it explained any of that.

The Clan Primer does mention that different weapons scale with different stats, and lists what weapon type uses what stat. It does not, of course, provide the actual mathematical formulas, which I suppose is par for the course because hardly any RPG ever does that.

FFXII is also notorious for having a lot of obscure mechanics involved, not just in combat but also things like how certain enemies spawn etc. (not to mention the absolutely ludicrous mechanics of the original Zodiac Spear, which thankfully they removed in this version).

If you want to look up specific things, check the FF wiki. It's usually a good source of comprehensive information.

[Scheneighnay]

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

Originally posted by -_-:

Thanks. I do wish there was some sort of indicator in the game to give an idea of exactly what the outcome would be. I don't remember where it explained any of that.

The Clan Primer does mention that different weapons scale with different stats, and lists what weapon type uses what stat. It does not, of course, provide the actual mathematical formulas, which I suppose is par for the course because hardly any RPG ever does that.

FFXII is also notorious for having a lot of obscure mechanics involved, not just in combat but also things like how certain enemies spawn etc. (not to mention the absolutely ludicrous mechanics of the original Zodiac Spear, which thankfully they removed in this version).

If you want to look up specific things, check the FF wiki. It's usually a good source of comprehensive information.

what do you mean we can't be expected to figure out not to loot very specific chests with zero in-game info, and one of which is in plain sight, the entire game?

[Hinnyuu]

It just comes to you, I guess. Same way you know certain enemies only spawn if you go into a particular area when the in-game clock shows a particular time.

MAGIC!

[Daedalus007]

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

what do you mean we can't be expected to figure out not to loot very specific chests with zero in-game info, and one of which is in plain sight, the entire game?

No longer an issue since IZJS so doesn't apply to anything other than the original Playstation 2 release of the game. If you're playing that then you likely already know how to use the internet to look things up ;)

The dev explained the reasoning for all this garbage by saying they 'wanted to encourage discussion and discovery' among players. They seemed to be thinking very specifically of pre-internet Japanese schools or something (same as Pokemon basically) instead of our modern society in (current year argument) 2020.

[Hinnyuu]

Originally posted by Daedalus007:

They seemed to be thinking very specifically of pre-internet Japanese schools or something

Um, the original release of XII was definitely NOT "pre-internet". Doubly so in Japan, where internet access via mobile phones was much more widespread much earlier than in, say, the US.

I get the sentiment they were going for, but they definitely overshot that goal.

[Johannes Siv]

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

The Clan Primer does mention that different weapons scale with different stats, and lists what weapon type uses what stat. It does not, of course, provide the actual mathematical formulas, which I suppose is par for the course because hardly any RPG ever does that.

FFXII is also notorious for having a lot of obscure mechanics involved, not just in combat but also things like how certain enemies spawn etc. (not to mention the absolutely ludicrous mechanics of the original Zodiac Spear, which thankfully they removed in this version).

If you want to look up specific things, check the FF wiki. It's usually a good source of comprehensive information.

what do you mean we can't be expected to figure out not to loot very specific chests with zero in-game info, and one of which is in plain sight, the entire game?

I still have nightmares about the Forbidden Treasures.

[Daedalus007]

Originally posted by -_-:

I'm near the beginning of the game. Vaan is sitting at 15 Attack Power and 25 Strength. Penelo is sitting at 14 Attack Power, and 22 Strength.

I have already made Vaan a monk, But I've yet to decide what to make Penelo. I noticed once I equipped Vaan with an Oaken Staff after making him a Monk, his attack went up slightly but he started doing less damage. Penelo is still using her initial dagger and she's doing way more damage.

Do enemies have weaknesses to certain types of weaponry? How can you tell?

Might as well respond to the OP directly.
Here you go: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps2/459841-final-fantasy-xii/faqs/45900
I'd recommend scrolling to the end and choosing 'text only mode'

That is the 'Game Mechanics FAQ' and while it was made for the Playstation 2 vanilla version, it applies to everything in TZA as well.

Also a bit of curious trivia from the end of that FAQ:

One day, in another FF forum, I read that somebody briefly quoted a FF12
developer interview. I learned that the developers made all of these torturing
rare monster spawns, drops, and chests so people will be puzzled after a few
hours of failure, and come out to ask for help and exchange information --
thus they talk about this game more.

They call this "encouraging players' interaction".

In my view, though, it has no good meaning at all. This is nothing but a
technique to boost the game's popularity, by flushing players time down the
drain! From another interview translation, a developer revealed that they made
us miss the zodiac spear so easily, so we would have the motivation to play
the game again.

I was deeply annoyed by their technique. This is not what a company should
treat their customers. The customers have a right to rebel. I choose to take
a small step further.

In this 300Kb of text, I have revealed everything there is to waste your
time in this extremely torturing and mind-numbing game, so you do not have to
come out and "exchange information", wondering in eternity with no clear
answer. My information comes from their official guide, so it is 100% accurate
unless I make a mistake in translation.