Mod scene already dying/dead?

[M a Ƶ e - 迷宮]

I've been holding out on doing a playthrough because I've specifically been waiting to 'try my hand', so to speak, at modding the game to my liking. I've already played through the game like 4 times prior to it coming to Steam so I'd rather not do another vanilla run.
The issue is, I don't know ♥♥♥♥ about modding. I thought I could just go into a file and modify some numbers to make the game harder by changing enemies stats but apparently even that is a pain in the ass to accomplish currently. I was however told that somebody or a group of people were working on some sort of file editor that would make the process much smoother and easier to change things (I don't know if it will make the process easy enough for somebody who has no prior modding experience to be able to use but that's the assumption I'm going on), however as far as I can tell that still doesn't seem to be a thing.
If it wasn't already obvious I'm not really well versed on how difficult that editor would be to create so maybe it is still being worked on but it's just something that takes a considerable amount of time to make.
I'm aware there's a good deal of difficulty mods out there but they all usually have 1-2 things that I don't agree with or they change too much. I basically just want to go through the game with a fine toothed comb and individually buff the stats of each enemy. Certain enemies in my mind should be considerably stronger as they're either few and far between or just look way more intimidating and powerful than what their stats would suggest (going against a big wyvern and killing it in like 3 hits just irritates me to no end).
Other than those sweeping stat changes to enemies, I doubt I'd make any other changes with the one exception of making it so you can't have 2 jobs for each character, since the game was clearly not balanced for that, however even that change wouldn't matter to me personally because I would just simply restrict myself from making use of the dual job system without actually removing it.

Basically, my ideal version of the game would be the game remaining as vanilla as possible but with some fine tuned tougher enemies (not so much a sweeping buff of like +10% stat increase to everything, it would be more methodical than that)

[Hinnyuu]

AFAIK modding tools are very much a thing, and while not ALL of them are publicly available yet, some are, and others you could easily get by talking to the modders I imagine. Where have you been looking? Have you been to the modding Discord, where most of the modders for this game hang out?

The kind of modding you want to do is very much possible, and is probably not very hard to do at all even if you don't have any modding expertise.

[The Guy]

We have tools to edit just about everything regarding the game and stats. There are even difficulty mods which make the game harder- no need to tinker yourself. The game also comes with a new game - mode, which ramps up the difficulty. If you want some madness, there is a randomizer mod.

[M a Ƶ e - 迷宮]

Messaggio originale di Hinnyuu:

Where have you been looking? Have you been to the modding Discord, where most of the modders for this game hang out?

The kind of modding you want to do is very much possible, and is probably not very hard to do at all even if you don't have any modding expertise.

I've been there twice pretty much, it's usually pretty quiet so I think I'm just showing up at terrible times though.
However at the time I was going there to ask about something different than the editor I've been talking about. I was checking to see if there was any chance of a mod being made that stopped the Esper music from playing when you summon them but left the regular music in for whatever area you're in that you summon the Esper, and the reason I wanted this is because I was doing a Solo Ashe Summoner run and seeing as I was summoning Espers non stop that music was driving me nuts and actually made me put the run on hold (which it still is on hold to this day). Just muting the game permanently is a poor work around too, I was just wanting the Esper to be summoned while regular area music played as normal.
Apparently though at the time I asked this it either outright couldn't be done or it would take too much effort to do so I just stopped asking about it since there was basically no reason for anybody to put the effort into such a niche mod.

Anyway though, I might jump into the Discord later on/tomorrow to ask about the editor.
How does it work anyway? Do I just open up a file that has a nice, neat list of monsters and edit some number values or is it gonna take a bit more effort than that?

Oh and as for where I've been looking for the mods, I usually check Nexus every month or so to see if it's been uploaded there.

Messaggio originale di SnekBoi:

We have tools to edit just about everything regarding the game and stats.

Well that's good to hear, maybe I'll be able to start a new playthrough sooner than I thought.
My only issue with the difficulty mods that currently exist is that they stray too far from the vanilla experience and change up more than what I'd prefer, like I'd really only be messing with the enemies personally while leaving weapon stats, licence boards and spells alone.

[Hinnyuu]

Messaggio originale di M a Ƶ e - 迷宮:

My only issue with the difficulty mods that currently exist is that they stray too far from the vanilla experience and change up more than what I'd prefer, like I'd really only be messing with the enemies personally while leaving weapon stats, licence boards and spells alone.

I understand your sentiment, but be aware that these broader changes are made for a reason, and very much with difficulty in mind.

As I've pointed out in another thread, difficulty through mere stats tweaking is rarely satisfying. Stock releases are usually riddled with balance issues that run out of whack when stats are changed, or are outright under/overpowered when it comes to serious powergaming. The best difficulty mods I have played, on any game, have universally included more than just stat changes, and have often made fundamental changes to game systems in order to create more satisfying difficulty.

But that's just my own preference. I can recommend the Struggle For Freedom mod, but I understand if you prefer to customize your own setup. I'd probably be inclined to do the same, if I had the time.

[[deleted]]

Messaggio originale di M a Ƶ e - 迷宮:

Do I just open up a file that has a nice, neat list of monsters and edit some number values or is it gonna take a bit more effort than that?

Oh and as for where I've been looking for the mods, I usually check Nexus every month or so to see if it's been uploaded there.

Messaggio originale di SnekBoi:

We have tools to edit just about everything regarding the game and stats.

Well that's good to hear, maybe I'll be able to start a new playthrough sooner than I thought.
My only issue with the difficulty mods that currently exist is that they stray too far from the vanilla experience and change up more than what I'd prefer, like I'd really only be messing with the enemies personally while leaving weapon stats, licence boards and spells alone.

There isn't a enemy editor released; in the meantime, looking for increased difficulty alone, with more to do on the side during your playthrough, you can keep tune of this mod.
You could likely do an alternative with Esper music once such audio tools is complete and released.

[Daedalus007]

Title is very misleading. Considering every single person working on modding is doing so 100% for free in their spare time without any compensation whatsoever, the typical mantra is applicable here.

Time
Money
Quality

Pick Two. If you want something for free and high quality then it will take a long time to create. If you want something for free and done quicker then the quality will suffer.

There are more than enough tools now freely/publicly available (on Nexus Mods) for Zodiac Age. They allow the end-user to modify nearly everything in the game. The few remaining bits (mainly audio) are being worked on.

If so many people want the game to be moddable, I wonder why they don't make more of a fuss when Square-Enix doesn't bother releasing games in an open/moddable format or release any (English) documentation for the file formats or any info at all?

SE has quite (in)famously been very anti-modder for the longest time. Modders did their best to fix the absolute-garbage port of Chrono Trigger with SE doing a paltry minimal amount of work to remove most of the crap they put in (filters, etc). The FF15 modding tool releases were cancelled as well since they can't really monetize free player mods as easily.

[The Guy]

Messaggio originale di 奇妙な焼却炉:

There isn't a enemy editor released...

Oh I thought Bartz would've had that released before the randomizer.
Well he'd have the knowhow to do this at least.

[M a Ƶ e - 迷宮]

Messaggio originale di Hinnyuu:

I understand your sentiment, but be aware that these broader changes are made for a reason, and very much with difficulty in mind.

As I've pointed out[/url] in another thread, difficulty through mere stats tweaking is rarely satisfying. Stock releases are usually riddled with balance issues that run out of whack when stats are changed, or are outright under/overpowered when it comes to serious powergaming. The best difficulty mods I have played, on any game, have universally included more than just stat changes, and have often made fundamental changes to game systems in order to create more satisfying difficulty.

Oh I am aware of that and I do like the steps some modders have taken in order to increase the challenge factor and making the combat more strategic (such as putting more emphasis on status effects for example) and I am interested in eventually doing a playthrough with some of the difficulty mods currently up, but the point of what I want to do with buffing enemy stats while keeping eveything else essentially the same is to maintain that distinct vanilla feeling of the game (because I absolutely love FFXII, it's easily my favorite final fantasy and I've put hundreds of hours into it and I'm still wanting to put more in) while having it not be so piss easy though.
I want to go through and individually buff monsters as I see fit because there's some things that absolutely annoy the ♥♥♥♥ out of me in the game. For example, you go to Golmore jungle and there's 2 types of Malboro. Regular Malboro and Great Malboro. Now 'technically' the Great Malboro does have higher stats, it has a whopping 2 strength higher and 60 extra health. As you probably know, such a miniscule stat change essentially does nothing, you cannot notice any difference between the two, the only real distinction between them is their looks and names. This happens throughout the entirety of the game and this is something I'd want to change. I'd be buffing enemies across the board basically because that's needed and I do enjoy a challenge but I wouldn't be doing it so that every encounter you get into is an ordeal. If you come across a few bats for example then yeah, you're still gonna mow them down with relative ease but if you come across something that actually looks like it should be somewhat challenging then yes I'd definitely want to have that be reflected rather than how it is now in vanilla. If we go back to the Golmore Jungle again, there's an enemy called Diresaur and to my knowledge it's the only one in the game, it's not a rare monster or anything, it's just a big tyrant enemy and the only one of its kind yet its a complete pushover, I hate ♥♥♥♥ like that.
Looking at its stats and movepool though, I can definitely agree with you on something, and that is that a simple stat upgrade probably wouldn't help this thing out to much because I imagine it'll either just be something that simply hits too hard or its a pushover anyway but with an inflated health pool and that's mostly because of its poor movepool (all it does is Ram and Sonic Fangs). This is the type of time that I may stray away from keeping everything overly vanilla by giving it another attack or something or even a status effect slapped on to its attacks because it's just too simple of an enemy to make challenging otherwise, especially since the area it shows up in is devoid of any other enemies I think, I can't remember for sure though.

Messaggio originale di Daedalus007:

Title is very misleading. Considering every single person working on modding is doing so 100% for free in their spare time without any compensation whatsoever, the typical mantra is applicable here.

In what way is it misleading? Looking from the outside it very much appeared to be dead or at least dying down. The only mods that have been put up on Nexus for the past month has been 2-3 character recolor packs. It's been confirmed that it certainly isn't dead now but it still looked like that at first.
Also I'm well aware that modders are our unsung heros, I'm not suggesting otherwise, I was asking if the modders for this game are still around working on things or if they've essentially moved on to another game which isn't exactly an uncommon thing to happen.

Messaggio originale di Daedalus007:

There are more than enough tools now freely/publicly available (on Nexus Mods) for Zodiac Age. They allow the end-user to modify nearly everything in the game. The few remaining bits (mainly audio) are being worked on.

I personally have been solely holding out for an enemy editor tool which as of yet isn't available/finished (to my knowledge). An audio editor would be nice though assuming it could help fix the issue I mentioned earlier regarding Esper music. Unfortunately for me, both of those seem to be just about the only things that aren't yet completed.

Messaggio originale di Daedalus007:

If so many people want the game to be moddable, I wonder why they don't make more of a fuss when Square-Enix doesn't bother releasing games in an open/moddable format or release any (English) documentation for the file formats or any info at all?

Square has never gave a ♥♥♥♥ and I don't see them starting anytime soon even if there was significant backlash.

Messaggio originale di 奇妙な焼却炉:

There isn't a enemy editor released; in the meantime, looking for increased difficulty alone, with more to do on the side during your playthrough, you can keep tune of this mod.
You could likely do an alternative with Esper music once such audio tools is complete and released.

I wiill without a doubt dedicate a few playthroughs to some mods that are already available, there's quite a few that look interesting, but as I said I'm looking to have my first playthrough (at least on this version of the game anyway) be as vanilla as possible, just with some tweaks to enemies.
I honestly have no idea how far along the enemy editor is but hopefully it's steadily progressing. I'm eager to dedicate a bit of time towards fine tuning the game to my liking for my ideal playthrough.
As for the Esper music thing, again I dunno if it can be done, but I'd prefer not to change the music for something else, so to speak, instead I'd rather the background music just continued to play as per usual without any dedicated Esper music playing over it, if you know what I mean.

[El Fuerte]

You should be glad there is even a mod scene. Let alone the marvelous ammount of great mods that are avaiable

XII is one of my favotite games ever but i did not expect any modding scene when it was released for PC. Thankfully many modders did care about this gem.

[M a Ƶ e - 迷宮]

Messaggio originale di 14 Dias Sem Cagar:

You should be glad there is even a mod scene.

Who said I'm not? I'm enquiring about the status of the mod scene.

Messaggio originale di 14 Dias Sem Cagar:

XII is one of my favotite games ever but i did not expect any modding scene when it was released for PC.

I was almost certain it would get some dedicated modders once the game came to PC, FFXII might not have the largest audience of any FF game but the fans it does have are easily some of the most passionate from what I've seen. More often than not the people who like the game really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ love it.

[Daedalus007]

You'd get many more responses over on Nexus, a platform that doesn't require giving money to Valve to have a Steam-verified account or purchasing DRM-encumbered games priced at a total of $5 USD or more.

I've spent way too much money on Humble Bundle and I do not regret a single purchase because not only does Humble take 20% less money than GoG/Steam but they also donate an additional % of purchases to charity by default. Humble Bundles let the user set what % they want to donate.

So as I said: The title is misleading since the Steam forums here are often one of the last places to be notified of new developments. Primary source is the modding Discord while secondary source is the Nexus modding section for TZA.

[Melodia]

Messaggio originale di M a Ƶ e - 迷宮:

In what way is it misleading? Looking from the outside it very much appeared to be dead or at least dying down. The only mods that have been put up on Nexus for the past month has been 2-3 character recolor packs. It's been confirmed that it certainly isn't dead now but it still looked like that at first..

So the randomizer, FPS unlocker, and Zodiac era don't count? On top of the tools such as the battle pack editor, treasure editor and text editor?

Seriously, it'd boggling how anyone could call the scene 'dead'.


Alfo FWIW there are two Diresaurs. Just sayin.

[M a Ƶ e - 迷宮]

Messaggio originale di Melodia:

So the randomizer, FPS unlocker, and Zodiac era don't count? On top of the tools such as the battle pack editor, treasure editor and text editor?

Non of those came out within the past month, they're 2-3 months old.

Messaggio originale di 奇妙な焼却炉:

I could see about your initial view of it seeming dead, it has it's sleeping moments, yes.

Which is to be expected tbh, I was just checking to get a more definitive answer from the modding scene themselves.

[The Guy]

Messaggio originale di M a Ƶ e - 迷宮:

Non of those came out within the past month, they're 2-3 months old.

Nexus has an updates page I'm pretty sure. Two to three months isn't very long; and lots' of mods are recieving constant updates.

[Daedalus007]

There are no official modding tools whatsoever. This isn't some obscure game on a dead console system that has to wait several years for a translation patch to be done or editors to be made.

This is a mainline Final Fantasy game ported to PC and with several editors ALREADY created! OP seems to merely be demanding that things move faster instead of recognizing that things will only move at the speed of free volunteer coders in their spare time. I'm starting to understand now why Raiden decided to stop responding to people and just focus on the coding stuff.

The modding scene for FF12 has made tremendous progress over the past several months. Be thankful for what is available to edit and be patient for what is coming up. You are NOT the only person eager to have an editable bestiary and/or shop system.

If you want to try your hand at hex-editing then the info can be provided to you in the modding discord and you can have at it. Or if you can do some coding then feel free to work on an editor if you are unable/unwilling to wait for it to be finished.

When eternal created their Struggle For Freedom TZA mod, much of the editing stuff was buggy/incomplete and they've had to have things done manually via hex-editing. Their awesome mod planning and documentation allowed them to more quickly complete the mod once the technical hurdles were cleared.

Things are better now with some new editors publicly released since then. The current editors in progress are NOT suitable for a public release and have not been fully completed/tested. I hope that the OP would appreciate that modders are trying to release stuff that works instead of buggy untested stuff that may not work at all.

Things that are available to edit right now are more than sufficient to be able to complete a mod like SFF. Just hex edit the enemies :P