Mod to balance axes, hammers, bombs: the randomer weapons

[Vir027]

These could feel more balanced and useful. It doesn't matter much in this version, but I've been thinking about how to do it anyway. Here are, in my view, some basic directions one could try toward a better balance and I'd be happy for your thoughts.

1. Give an Atk boost to each weapon until its average dps for some character is very comparable to a contemporary sword, say. This might seem at first like the natural solution, but I find it problematic. It would seem to be a lot of mathematical input for an unreliable input, because the actual character and battle variables involved in the user's experience won't match the spreadsheet, which may or may not leave the problem solved. It's possible I am wrong about this, but I don't think two such different multivariable expressions are likely to have their graphs held close together by changing one variable?

2. Give the weapons some other advantage than damage. Rather than make them all special snowflakes, possibly a small categorical edge would do well. Say they all had a low standard chance to cause Slow or something. Some weapons of these classes could of course still be special with higher chances for something else. This is a sidegrade solution as it does not address the original concern directly.

3. Switch out the formula for a more reliable one. This solves the damage problem most simply, but at the cost of variety.

[Arkhne]

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

Originally posted by Warchild:

I'm not all too familiar with sarcasm though ;)

Fixed that for you.

<3

Anyway, I played around a bit with breaker weapons in the SFF mod, where the hammers have various debuff procs like stop, slow, sleep, etc. They're still completely and utterly terrible. A large part of that has to do with the fact that bosses are often immune - and bosses are the only redeeming fights for breakers, since you have more hits there and thus more time to smooth out the variance. On trash fights, you hit for 0 damage (or near enough) twice in a row you want to jump off a cliff because you literally did nothing all fight, 10% slow nor not.

Yeah, the one and only problem with Breakers is their Minimum damage, needs more rolls, less sides on the dice ;)

[Daedalus007]

The damage formula of a weapon can be changed to match the damage formula of any other class of weapons. Make Axes do damage based on Magic Defense like Poles if you want to do that. The individual formulas are fixed, but they can be swapped around if needed.

[Vir027]

I am finding the loss of variety via solution #3 to be less of a concern. Breakers do not need the additional variety of their poor damage and FFXII doesn't need the additional variety of this formula. It's not like it does give strategic advantage to characters with higher Vit.

Thanks for all the input, y'all.

[Vir027]

I've gone with mace formula for hammers, sword formula for axes, and gun formula for handbombs.

[Hinnyuu]

Have you adjusted the attack power values on hammers? Given how easy MAG is to raise, a 130+ weapon like Vrscika that early in the game seems ludicrously strong. But I guess it's probably not that much worse than Mithuna which is available at the same time so...

[Arkhne]

Originally posted by Vir027:

I've gone with mace formula for hammers, sword formula for axes, and gun formula for handbombs.

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

Have you adjusted the attack power values on hammers? Given how easy MAG is to raise, a 130+ weapon like Vrscika that early in the game seems ludicrously strong. But I guess it's probably not that much worse than Mithuna which is available at the same time so...

You might also want to double check how they compare to other weapons. If you look at purely shop-bought options, Breakers exceed all other options for attack stats, just changing their formulae make them then the best choice by default at basically any stage in the game. Lower them all by about 5-8 and you should be a lot closer (some probably only need a drop of 3).

[Vir027]

Naturally, I am adjusting Atk values along the damage lines of other weapons.

So far:

Piercing, 0 CR bombs with crossbow's CT of 24 (calculations w/ slowest battle speed):
Hornito 26 -- w/ +2 bombs compare Ras Algethi w/ +3 shot
Fumarole 29 -- w/ +2 bombs compare Aldebaran w/ +3 shot
Tumulus 32 -- w/ +2 bombs compare Spica w/ +3 shot
Caldera 37 -- w/ +4 bomb compare Arcturus w/ +3 shot
Volcano 42 -- w/ +6 bombs compare Fomalhaut +4 shot
Makara 55 -- w/ +6 bombs compare Mithuna w/ +4 shot

It will be well if axes are not just different looking 1h swords without being too different. Axes are already +1 CB, -3 CT to swords. Now they will also be +1 ATK and swords be +2 EVA. As a class, axes are less diverse. Here are the links.
Handaxe:Broadsword
Broadaxe:Ironsword
Slasher:Flametongue
Hammerhead:Platinum Sword
Francisca:Diamond Sword
Greataxe:Deathbringer
Goldenaxe:Stoneblade

Hammer ATK are going to fit into their extant hierarchy with axes and hit harder than counterpart maces.
Handaxe -- 16
Iron Hammer -- 21 -- compare w/ Mace 17
Broadaxe -- 26
War Hammer -- 36 -- compare w/ Bhuj 34
Slasher -- 46 --
Sledgehammer -- 56 -- compare w/ Thorned Mace 53
Hammerhead -- 62
Francisca -- 74
Morning Star -- 79 -- compare w/ Doom Mace 75
Greataxe -- 84
Golden Axe -- 96
Scorpion Tail -- 97 -- ATK based on its sale price between Durandal and Hunter's Blade, as well as making Golden Axe (faster) a sidegrade
Vrscika -- 110 -- ATK based on comparison of its sale price to Kumbha, Vrsahba, and Kanya

[Vir027]

The above is now all updated with the outcomes of this topic.

In case anyone is interested in a sidebar, I've had at crossbows and measures, too.

Crossbows (sans bolts) are a point or two above counterpart swords right up to the ultimate weapon teir, at which point Tula lets us down. Well, I am continuing that pattern such that Tula has 105 ATK.

The major problem I see with measures is the quality of life cost. One has to bother herself to equip them in order to get buffs free of MP, and then normally unequip them, as well. The trick is that user attention tends to be more valuable than MP.

Perhaps if the buffing were even easier, the HP costs more intuitive, and there was at least some other reason anyone would want a measure equipped. I have buffed their speed to that of ninja swords, their EVA to 50 (par w Main Gauche which at least does a spot of damage), set their proc to 80%, and set their ATK into buff teirs. With ATK 10 for the Gilded M., Arc Scale, and Cross Scale, Protect, Shell, and Vanish cost between a Potion and a Hi-Potion: 80% proc means 99+% chance to hit by the third blow. With ATK 20 for Multiscale, Caliper, and Euclid's Sextant, Bravery, Haste, and Bubble cost between a Hi-Potion and an X-Potion. If it's not clear why these restorative equivalences, with those ATKs and pretending that you always strike 1-3 times, these measures will be doing 100~375 and 400~1500 damage in the course of laying on their buffs. Several support strategies' (if still not the most popular and intuitive offensive paradigms') incorporating measures would now make some sense to me.