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The original posts on that gamefaqs thread (which I was around to watch) were the results of theorycrafting that was going on before the game released on the PS4 and as such, some of the information that those combos are based on is out of date.
Most notably, the fact that the Germinas Boots are better for Dagger/Ninja Blade damage than the Genji Gloves so any combo based on Shikari/Genji usage is wildly overrated. Shikari/Breaker and Shikari/Bushi are 'ok' but they have almost nothing to do for about 90% of the game and are only stand-out effective in one or two fights in the endgame. A Shikari/Red Mage has the same Robe + Yagyu benefit as Shikari/Bushi but only comes in about 3-4 points of Strength lower, and has a lot more to do through the rest of the game when you're not fighting Yiazmat.
The other mixes are all good in my book. Just be aware that the Holy damage bonus on the Black / Monk combo is more of a gimmick than an actual strength. Holy is a very slow spell that only hits a single target and it's also one of the last spells in the game that you get. You'll have better options for dealing with undead groups by the time you reach that point, especially with a Knight/Bushi in the party.
It does not, however, give you the ONE redeeming feature of Ninja Swords - boosting the dark damage of Yagyu Darkblade through Black Robes. Without the Robes, Ninja Swords are just bad Katanas.
Also, the only break that's truly relevant is Wither. Most enemy abilities are based on Strength (even some that look like Magic, like Yiazmat's Cyclone), and while Expose is definitely a damage gain, its low application chance (33% vs. Wither's 66%) and paltry .9 modifier make it not very efficient.
Foebreaker is one of the worst jobs. All its stats, be it STR, HP, or weapon selection, are mediocre. What's more, it offers almost no synergy with the Shikari's potential for tanking, which is largely evasion-based (thanks to Main Gauche) and thus independent of armor.
See above - Germinas Boots are superior to Genji Gloves because of how Ninja Sword damage is calculated.
Now this is something to get behind. I'm a big fan of Shikari/White, and though it's hard to tell which is truly "the best" tank (this or Shikari/Red Battlemage) it's definitely a contender. Combining heals and tanking is a very efficient way of conducting combat, and compensating for the meager damage output of Main Gauche later on. Love this combo.
Another classic, and a very solid combo. Personally, I like giving Katana to someone else and focusing on Excalibur, which deals absolutely ludicrous damage to a large portion of endgame enemies - it's not that great on superbosses, but if you're min/maxing for those then you're likely better off with a different combo anyway - and it does shine on at least two superbosses weak to Holy, Hellwyrm and Zodiark.
Another super overrated combo that's actually much worse than it looks. Holy is a TERRIBLE spell - it hits only one target and has an animation time the length of a Tarantino movie. If you want to combine physical and magical damage, use something like a Black Mage/Knight or an Archer/Red Battlemage. Use -ga spells or Ardor for boosted elemental damage, and Scathe/Shock if you need non-elemental damage (multi and single target, respectively). Personally I find attack/spell damage hybrids overrated and not all that useful, but you give up very little for the physical side so it's a fairly solid deal - getting to 99 Magic is pretty trivial, so you'll do the same damage as a dedicated caster.
I'm a big fan of this. It's my go-to for spell damage, and dominates much of early/mid game. Endgame melee tend to go out of control with their sick gear so stuff dies too fast for this to matter, but several bosses need magic damage so... Archer/Red Battlemage is arguably better at late game because of more flexibility, but I like boosting my highest damage/best weakness spell during early/mid game more than I like attacking with a bow.
Some combos you did not pick, but I can recommend:
Monk/Bushi
My favorite Katana user (usually on Vaan). Full 16 Battle Lores, all HP nodes, x3 Swiftness, Genji Gear, Infuse, Focus/Adrenaline and Bravery. Don't need more than that, really, to be the best at physical combat. Also comes with Curaja, all without using an Esper. And you even get Wither/Expose for free, just because. Monk in general is probably the single best job there is. It's loaded to the brim with stats and useful abilities.
Monk/Knight
My favorite Kanya user. Most people don't realize that for most level brackets (up to the 80s or so, depending on several factors), Kanya is actually higher DPS than Kumbha because it scales only off STR and doesn't need a second stat (even at max level it's basically a wash). In addition, Poles charge 20% faster than Katanas and hit flying enemies innately. All you need is a job to provide Genji Gloves and heavy armor; while several jobs can do that, I usually pick Knight because its Esper-fueled White Magic gives me a second source of some useful spells. Monk/Uhlan is also fine, and both setups can equip an alternative high-power weapon for short fights like dungeon trash, where Kanya isn't that brilliant.
Machinist
There's a number of possible combos for Machinist, from stupid let-it-rip setups like Machinist/Uhlan to Reverse-tank setups like Machinist/White Mage. I generally favor the latter, because that way you have a tank that can maintain both Bravery and Haste on your two Berserk damage dealers.
The biggest reason to take a Machinist for me, however, is the simple fact that they absolutely ANNIHILATE early game if you make top tier guns quickly. I tend to get Arcturus before Raithwall and Mithuna straight after Eruyt Village - critting 25,000 damage on the right weakness when everyone else is doing 500 a hit is a sight to behold. The Mithuna hard-carry allows you to poke your nose in places you'd otherwise have no business being, allowing you to grab things like Bravery/Faith from Nabudis right away. I suppose it's cheesy in a way, but I love having my own personal death machine by my side.
Personal preference plays a bit role in all these deliberations, of course. In the end it comes down to how you like to play. Me, I like having something "unfair" at all stages in the game - dominating early game with boosted black magicks and guns, while slaughtering endgame with min/maxed combo attackers and Excalibur, for example.
The options are many.
So far the only selection "locked-in" in my game, is Vaan as a Shikari. Balthier & Fran have just joined the party, but I've not selected their jobs yet.
Based upon my goals, what would you recommend as good jobs for each character? I've added an extra goal below now.
1) Strong healing in both parties
2) Access to strong healing throughout the game
3) Tank in both parties
4) High damage in both parties/
5) Both parties viable throughout the game.
I'll go through the posts above and re-work the party build based upon your suggestions, and then re-post it up! :)
Bushi's major weakness is its lack of anti-air damage. So one way to approach this is to pair it with Uhlan. This way you can solve all your anti-air problem with Zodiac Spear. You can also use Holy Lance with White Robe for some nice damage on undeads. Bushi can also be built as a counter tank (with Genji equipment and Kumbha), so the extra battle lore and HP from Uhlan won't hurt.
Red Mage is the only job that can use Ardor. And Ardor is fire elemental. So pair Red Mage with Archer and uses Burning Bow is a safe bet. Combining with Black Mage / Monk, you won't have problems farming Hennes Mine (everything will get melt before they can do anything to you). For this reason, Red Mage and Black Mage are best not to use on the same character.
Knight is the most versatile job in the game as it gains access to wide variety of equipment and with Esper, it can also use White Magick. So one way is to model Knight as a paladin class and let it uses AOE buff while tanking. You can't go wrong with Knight / Time Mage due to Hastega and Float.
By process of elimination, you only have White Mage and Machinist. Try pair it with Famfrit and see what it can accomplish. Machinist is also the only other job that gain access to Dark elemental weapon and you would likely want it on your Yiazmat team.
I have no Archer, Uhlan, Time Battlemage or Foebreaker, which I assume is not a problem?
Please check that my new "build goals" are still valid, in particular items 3, 6.
Please check that characters suit the job.
1) Strong healing & damage in both parties.
2) At least one tank in both parties.
3) Deal with enemies with flying, physical and magical resistances.
4) Strong magic healing available throughout the game (from when Fran & Balthier join).
5) Keep both parties around the same level by regularly swapping between parties.
6) Strong, viable party through the whole game (not just end-game).
7) No obviously weak, disappointing characters.
8) Job variety where possible.
Shikari = Hunter
Bushi = Samaria
Germinas Boots are better for Dagger/Ninja Blade damage than the Genji Gloves
*Names* in asterisks are forum posters.
The job on the left (left/right) will be chosen first.
Only listed licenses that are block by Espers.
Only listed Espers that blocked licenses.
Shikari / Red Mage -- Vaan -- *DonkeyPunchJr* Allows for Germinas Boots + Yagyu Darkblade (Dark element weapon) + Black Robes (which boost Dark damage by 50%). In other words, this is THE ultimate Yiazmat killer. You can also easily heal any teammate with dark-absorbing gear by attacking them! *Sakhari*: A Shikari/Red Mage has the same Dark Robe + Yagyu Darkblade benefit as Shikari/Bushi but only comes in about 3-4 points of Strength lower, and has a lot more to do through the rest of the game when you're not fighting Yiazmat.
Weapon: Ninja Blades 1, 3, and 4.
Armour: Light Armor -> Mystic Armor (Black Robes)
Espers: Cuchulainn (White Magic 12, Black Magic 9 & 10), , Exodus (Heavy Armor 8-10), Shemhazai (Guns 5,6)
Bushi / Monk -- Balthier -- *Hinnyuu*: My favorite Katana user . Full 16 Battle Lores, all HP nodes, x3 Swiftness, Genji Gear, Infuse, Focus/Adrenaline and Bravery. Don't need more than that, really, to be the best at physical combat. Also comes with Curaja, all without using an Esper. And you even get Wither/Expose for free, just because. Monk in general is probably the single best job there is. It's loaded to the brim with stats and useful abilities.
Weapon: Karkata (Blood Sword A)
Armour: ?
Espers: Bushi -> Adremmelech (Souleater)
White Mage / Shikari -- Fran -- TANK & HEALER -- *DonkeyPunchJr*: a nearly invincible healer/tank hybrid. High HP, shields and Main Gauche (a dagger that gives you a whopping 50 evasion) combine with access to all the buff/healing spells to make this the best tank in the game. Even better, you can use the Drain spell to damage enemies while healing yourself.
Weapon: Main Gauche
Armour: ?
Licenses: Shikari -> 230HP
Espers: Shikari -> Zalera (435 HP)
Knight / Bushi -- Basch -- *DonkeyPunchJr*: The synergy here is incredible. Bushi's katanas do damage based on both strength and magic. Bushi has very high magic power, along with the magic-boosting mystic armor, but has just mediocre strength. Knight has excellent strength and strength-boosting heavy armor, so this combo will greatly increase katana damage. But it gets better. Knight unlocks a bunch of excellent White Magicks, but has lousy magic power. Bushi's magic ability will make those spells far more effective. What's more, this is the only combo in the game that allows White Robes (50% damage boost for Holy element) + Excalibur (Holy elemental sword) + 3x swiftness, making you the ultimate undead slayer.
Weapon: Excalibur or Masamune
Armour: White Robes
Licenses: Bushi -> 350HP
Espers: Knight -> Ultima(Telekinisis, Battlelore), Hashmal (White Magic 8 & 9), Mateus White Magic (6 & 7)
Black Mage / Red Mage -- Penelo -- Red Mage gets the most powerful elemental spell in the game: Ardor. Unfortunately he gets no fire-boosing gear to make the best of it. This combo lets you use the Flame Staff to boost Ardor by 50%. Oil + Ardor + Flame Staff makes for the highest damage move in the game. A good selection of healing and buffs on top of it. *Hinnyuu* I'm a big fan of this. It's my go-to for spell damage, and dominates much of early/mid game. Endgame melee tend to go out of control with their sick gear so stuff dies too fast for this to matter, but several bosses need magic damage so... Archer/Red Battlemage is arguably better at late game because of more flexibility, but I like boosting my highest damage/best weakness spell during early/mid game more than I like attacking with a bow.
Weapon: Flame Staff
Armour: ?
White Mage / Machinist -- Ashe -- TANK & HEALER -- *Hinnyuu* A tank that can maintain both Bravery and Haste on your two Berserk damage dealers. The biggest reason to take a Machinist for me, however, is the simple fact that they absolutely ANNIHILATE early game if you make top tier guns quickly. I tend to get Arcturus before Raithwall and Mithuna straight after Eruyt Village - critting 25,000 damage on the right weakness when everyone else is doing 500 a hit is a sight to behold. The Mithuna hard-carry allows you to poke your nose in places you'd otherwise have no business being, allowing you to grab things like Bravery/Faith from Nabudis right away. I suppose it's cheesy in a way, but I love having my own personal death machine by my side.
Weapon: Main Gauche
Armour: ?
Espers: White Mage -> Zeromus (270HP), Machinist -> Famfrit (Time Magic 8-10)
Notes: *Eltia*: Red Mage is the only job that can use Ardor. And Ardor is fire elemental. So pair Red Mage with Archer and uses Burning Bow is a safe bet. Combining with Black Mage / Monk, you won't have problems farming Hennes Mine (everything will get melt before they can do anything to you). For this reason, Red Mage and Black Mage are best not to use on the same character. *Pete* We have Vaan and Penelo as separate mages.
Yes, both groups will be fine.
Personally, I still try to fit a Time Mage into my groups for the sake of certain conveniences but you can pretty easily do without all of these classes. I rarely use the other 3 anymore in the unmodded game - the Archer is a decent class if you 'want' to use it but I just don't feel that the other two bring much to the table during most of the runtime.
A lot of fuss is made about being able to deal with flying enemies but I honestly don't know why. Unless you're going out of your way to start fights with Dive Talons in the very early game, having a single character who can attack flyers is usually all you really need (the Machinist, Red Mage/Black Mage, and Monk will do the job, especially if you grab an Arcturus or Mithuna gun early) and once you get the Death spell for your Red Mage, that can instantly kill just about every non-boss flyer in the game - along with many other targets.
Anyway, it's a fine setup. If you're determined to stick to a strict two-party system and you go for the high-powered guns early, the first group is probably going to lag in damage potential for a while compared to the second but eventually, things will more or less even out. Throughout the group of 6, you'll have everything you need to cover all of the game's content.
Pros:
- Gets 3 remedy lores
- 3 swiftness lores
- Can unlock high level time magic (hasteaga, etc)
- Guns aren't terrible weapons on a White mage. Especially if you use the best gun w/dark shot + black robes.
- One of the best support combos
- Great class for Fran. Fran doesn't have a lot of great class combos that some other character isn't considerably better in, or is more useful in another combo.
Cons:
- Lacks damage.
Some thoughts on some other combos:
Red Mage/Archer - I made Penelo this combo, and she's the least used party member by far.
Black Mage/Monk - I made Ashe this combo, and in the vast majority of situations, I prefer this class to Red Mage/Archer. Mostly because this class has access to higher level White Magics. A little less damage with Scathe vs Ardor w/burning bow, like 30-32k vs 38-40k, but most of the damage in any group is going to be done with melee attackers, and 30k scathe is enough to OHKO groups in this game. Plenty.
Also, Ashe as Black Mage/Monk has high enough Mag growth where she doesn't need a single piece of mystic armor or a staff to hit 99 @ level 99. Ideal candidate to use the Wyrmhero blade for auto-faith (steal it in trial mode round 50). And you can equip light armor on her instead of mystic armor for extra HP. My level 99 Black Mage/Monk has like 9400 HP, which is the highest in the party. Red Mage/Archer Penello is the lowest, or second lowest HP in the party. She also has very decent STR, like 90s range STR wearing light armor. Slap an invisible weapon on her and she's almost as good as the other attackers. Red Mage/Archer, not so much.
Black Mage/Monk over Red Mage/Archer, absolutely.
You can get scathe really early. Like as soon as you get to Phon Coast and grab the key. Grab the Masamune while you're there too, along with some other stuff. Don't have to worry about Gilgamesh until later.
Also Machinist "lacking damage" is a bit of a misrepresentation - while yes, it won't be a prime damage dealer against superbosses, it will still WTFPWN the other 95% of the game before endgame, provided you get good guns early. Like, no other class is even CLOSE to that damage output. Except perhaps Black Mage against large numbers of enemies.
Not sure your numbers are quite on point. Scathe is 190 power, Ardor is 173 - with a 50% boost that should be ahead by more than the 25% you propose. Since the multipliers are identical, all that matters is base damage - enemy mDef. If you take someone like Yiazmat as an example (mRes 40) you still end up with 150 vs. 199.5 post-boost which is 33% more for Ardor. And the gap only grows larger with lower mRes enemies (not everyone is a superboss after all). That's not taking into account Oil, of course, which some bosses are not in fact immune to (Shadowseer & friends, for example).
There's also some other useful spells that Red Battlemage has, like Disable/Immobilize - which works wonders in some places, especially if they're well outside your level range. You can e.g. use it to farm Burning Bow pre-Raithwall (Dive Talons) or Karkata after Eruyt Village (Abysteels at Henne Mines, back entrance).
I suppose it's a personal choice depending on how you like to play, but I don't see Monk bringing all that much to the table. Yes you get Curaja and Bravery later on, but in return you spend more than half of the game without any healing. You have higher HP, but in return you have to actually get into melee range if you want to attack. You have more Battle Lores, but your melee weapon hits against magic resistance, meaning you get double-whammied if the enemy has high mRes. Also Kanya is one of the best if not the best melee weapons in the game but is largely wasted on a Monk/Black Mage; while Dhanusha isn't a prime damage dealer anyway so it's no big deal if it ends up on a character without all the combat augments.
Personally, I wouldn't run with either and just stick to Black Mage/Red Battlemage. But some people like the idea of combat/spell damage hybrids, and I suppose the two options are reasonably close. The finer distinctions are, after all, largely academic in nature. The game isn't nearly hard enough to make min/maxing reach its full potential.
Keep in mind that licenses are shared between your two jobs on each character so if, for example, you unlock the 350 HP boost on Basch's Bushi board, you'll also unlock it on his Knight board (you only get one of each license per character - they don't stack) so using Exodus on Basch ends up being a bit of a waste. Ditto for Famfrit, Shemhazai, Zeromus (who you listed twice) and Chaos.
If it were me...
Famfrit, I'd put on the Machinist to unlock the high-end Time Magic (Hastega, most notably).
You also have Zalera listed twice - I'd give that to either of the Shikari for the HP bonus (Basch can use the Karkata naturally if someone needs to and as a knight, can also use shields at any stage of the game).
I didn't see Cuchulainn listed - I'd put him on the Shikari / Red as both classes gain some extra spells to play with.
Exodus, I'd give to the Shikari / Red as well to get some decent heavy-armor options (i.e. more strength if you're going the melee-damage route).
Shemhazai is also decent on Shikari / Red for some gun options (which can also benefit from your Dark Robes) and Esuna/Cleanse which can take some pressure off of your dedicated healer.
My experience though is that when you fight the hard content in TZA, a White Mage would make life a lot easier. So pairing White Mage with Machinst and Famfrit is a great combo because your White Mage can do Arise and Hastega. Your White Mage can also add a bit of DPS from safe distance. Arise is very useful later on because your tank would likely be using Reverse. So instead of doing AOE heals, you just cast Arise and bring back a party member with full health without impacting the Reverse tank.
Shikari is primarily a tank anyway, so pairing that with a mage (Red Battlemage or White Mage) is usually the best way to go for tanking. Shikari doesn't exactly add anything to other damage jobs, as the job's weapons are very specific in application and the only other thing they have is shields which are by their nature defensive.
Any recommendations about armor?