Reverse/Decoy in 122333 mode

[Sekoku]

So, I know Stop will keep Reverse for as long as Stop holds. Is it possible to have Decoy stick as well?

I'm taking on the Behemoth King and trying to get them to land consistently seems impossible because as soon as the Reverse wears off the Behemoth King will nail the Decoy'd/tank person and then the entire battle falls apart right there.

I'm also thinking I need to go to the Cataract and lose Reddas finally for these hunts and getting the last few Technicks and Magicks. Maybe having Scath would help (if I could get around the limited MP pool)?

[DigginTiger]

Originally posted by Profile Name:

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

You don't need any other buffs, your plan isn't exactly to fight them head-on. Maybe Faith on your caster.

Also you can zone on Dispelga to stop it, the animation takes a while to complete and your buffs won't be removed until it does.

Yeah, that's what I've been doing. But with an Andrenaline (HP Critical, though I don't think that works on Spells... oops?), Faith Penelo: 1000-ish damage against these level 90-85 dragons. Kinda annoying. I don't think this is gonna work especially against these as I keep throwing Nu Kahi Sands and have already burned like 20 without seeing a huge dent in them.

I think there is indeed a license that makes your spells much more effective when critical Hp, at least it's what the description says i believe. I personnally, would not "play" that game against them, but i guess you could if you use lure and the zone in/out trick at every dispellga.

[Sekoku]

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

You don't need any other buffs, your plan isn't exactly to fight them head-on. Maybe Faith on your caster.

Also you can zone on Dispelga to stop it, the animation takes a while to complete and your buffs won't be removed until it does.

The reloading trick doesn't work apparently. I can reload (right outside or inside) and their HP is healed and their levels randomized. :/ I dunno, I don't think this method will work and I need to figure something else out. Because right now, it's going to burn through my reverse-status items quickly and Penelo isn't putting a dent into them and with them unconfusing like every other second...

[Hinnyuu]

Spellbreaker is x2 spell damage (and success chance) in critical HP. Adrenaline is the same for physical damage.

It can be useful here if you manage to keep your caster away from them, standing near the zone line perhaps and fleeing at the first sign of aggro. But it's not required.

This is mostly an exercise in patience. Yes it takes a while (particularly if you aren't used to it) but it's well worth it for what you get. Mithuna is unreal good at low levels (and more so, I imagine, in NG- games).

EDIT

Originally posted by Profile Name:

The reloading trick doesn't work apparently. I can reload (right outside or inside) and their HP is healed and their levels randomized. :/ I dunno, I don't think this method will work and I need to figure something else out. Because right now, it's going to burn through my reverse-status items quickly and Penelo isn't putting a dent into them and with them unconfusing like every other second...

Are you sure you're reloading the right autosave? I've never had that problem, though I've only ever really save-scummed at Larva Eater.

[Sekoku]

I figured it out. What causes the reset is zoning right outside. So if you load that auto-save from whichever direction you're entering out of, it'll reload/reset them. You basically have to make the auto-save within the room to keep them in their current statuses.

I'll have to play around with the levels and see if I can pull a 50. I keep getting 70's along with a 90 which is just "ugh."

[DigginTiger]

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

Spellbreaker is x2 spell damage (and success chance) in critical HP. Adrenaline is the same for physical damage.

It can be useful here if you manage to keep your caster away from them, standing near the zone line perhaps and fleeing at the first sign of aggro. But it's not required.

This is mostly an exercise in patience. Yes it takes a while (particularly if you aren't used to it) but it's well worth it for what you get. Mithuna is unreal good at low levels (and more so, I imagine, in NG- games).

EDIT

Originally posted by Profile Name:

The reloading trick doesn't work apparently. I can reload (right outside or inside) and their HP is healed and their levels randomized. :/ I dunno, I don't think this method will work and I need to figure something else out. Because right now, it's going to burn through my reverse-status items quickly and Penelo isn't putting a dent into them and with them unconfusing like every other second...

Are you sure you're reloading the right autosave? I've never had that problem, though I've only ever really save-scummed at Larva Eater.

the reloading trick should work normally. i tried it once when i first encountered these guys and it helped me to get one emperor scale. I was doing the zoning from where you meet adramenlech to the balanka rift area if it could play a role ( but i don't think so)
So as hinnyuu said, are you sure to reload the appropriate file?

[Sekoku]

Looking at videos (that are all above 122333's, in the 50-90's) it seems they use the slowest batlespeed for these. Then once you get one downed, it's a matter of kiting the other while your gunners take that one down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTgQIHj4Og0 <---Like so.

Problem is getting to that "kiting" point.

[Sekoku]

Also supposedly there's another way:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N8wQo1cDXE

Tried this with the default battle speed and got wrecked. Tomorrow morning I plan to try it with the slowest speed (as they say) and see if the palling stays down quick enough to attempt to steal. Try to get 2 (4? 6?) off him instead of those level 99 a-holes in the caverns.

[Hinnyuu]

Deathgaze is easy, just tank it out until the Paling drops, steal, run away, repeat.

You only need 2 Emperor Scales, as Mithuna is not a repeatable recipe. Only 1 per game.

[Sekoku]

I dunno about tanking it out. But I did what that video did and cranked the speed down two notches from the default.

Ashe dispels. Penelo uses Aqua. After getting hit two times (because apparently Reflect doesn't work), switch to Vaan and have him ready Steal for when Penelo is done being aggro'd. As soon as the Deathgaze starts to cast "Renew" run in and attempt to steal.

Thing is, it's a 6% Steal, so this may take a while. But outside of eating Fireballs it's realitively "safe"r than those dragons in the caverns.

[SenMithrarin85]

slightly off topic, but having read a few weak mode guides a lot of people resort to pleading to the rng god for hours to make high level guns. was going to give weak mode a try, but 2-3 hours of stealing stuff from the salamond entite et al doesn't sound appealing.

[Hinnyuu]

It's safer for sure - but of course it also requires you to be basically done with the story.

Archaeoaevis are available after Raithwall's Tomb.

It's the usual tradeoff, story gating vs. higher skill requirement.

EDIT

Originally posted by SenMithrarin85:

slightly off topic, but having read a few weak mode guides a lot of people resort to pleading to the rng god for hours to make high level guns. was going to give weak mode a try, but 2-3 hours of stealing stuff from the salamond entite et al doesn't sound appealing.

2-3 hours is overly exaggerated. While it is a rare steal, you can do the stealing fairly rapidly. Clearing the area means you just run, steal, run away over and over - even at 3% (or 6% if you do it post Raithwall with Thief's Cuffs) it won't take 2 hours to get a Salamand Halcyon. It won't even take 1 hour. Keep in mind that unlike most mobs, initially neutral enemies like entites do NOT require you to zone 2 screens to reset their steals - just zoning once will suffice.

And trust me, the power of the gun is worth it. Guns are unreal strong if you get the top ones super early. Like, beyond belief.

[Sekoku]

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

It's safer for sure - but of course it also requires you to be basically done with the story.

Well, I mean I'm at the point that Reddas has joined the party. At this point you only have 2 more story breaks before the end AFAIK (or at least one more). AFAIK you can get the Deathgaze like 2 or 3 breaks before that point.

As it is, it took me about 1-2 hours but I finally got the two items. Now to get the others to craft the gun.

[Sekoku]

Finally got it. It does like 17000 on anything that's low level, and around 5000-8000 without Adrenaline, Bravery, Berserk for anything at like level 50-70.

I'm wondering it's worth pursuing the second-strongest bow. Right now the Henne Mines second Stage are locked until I get the rest of the Summons. Which with this Gun (and the Astril on Penelo) shouldn't be *that* bad if I go craft up another Stone Shot... maybe.

Armor-wise, I should probably craft some stuff for the level 70+ monsters. But I'm not even sure if crafting better armor will let me stand toe-to-toe with them without getting one-shotted if Reverse is off the party for a millisecond...

[Hinnyuu]

Originally posted by Profile Name:

Finally got it. It does like 17000 on anything that's low level, and around 5000-8000 without Adrenaline, Bravery, Berserk for anything at like level 50-70.

It shouldn't matter. Gun damage is completely independent of any stats, yours or the enemy's. Whether it's a lvl 1 or lvl 99 it will do the same damage.

Chances are you were hitting a resistant enemy. Some enemies (like most superbosses) cut all damage by 1/3rd at some point. There's also a few enemies (Flans, Ghosts, Elementals, Bombs, and Cúchulainn/Zodiark) who only take 1/8th damage from guns specifically.

Originally posted by Profile Name:

I'm wondering it's worth pursuing the second-strongest bow.

Do you already have Dhanusha? Because that's super easy to make.

Originally posted by Profile Name:

But I'm not even sure if crafting better armor will let me stand toe-to-toe with them without getting one-shotted if Reverse is off the party for a millisecond...

It probably depends on the enemy, but generally (and somewhat ironically) armors are best for their OFFENSIVE properties rather than defensive. Increasing STR/MAG is what they're for, not so much reducing incoming damage - because as you rightly said, at some point you'll have to Reverse (or Wither...) anyway so defense doesn't matter.

You can craft some high-end armors fairly easily. Maximilian, Magepower Shishak, and White & Black Robe/Mask are very easy to make. There's also an essentially free Maximilian/Shishak in Lhusu Mines III.

[Sekoku]

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

Chances are you were hitting a resistant enemy. Some enemies (like most superbosses) cut all damage by 1/3rd at some point. There's also a few enemies (Flans, Ghosts, Elementals, Bombs, and Cúchulainn/Zodiark) who only take 1/8th damage from guns specifically.

I'll have to have Balither only to see for sure.

Do you already have Dhanusha? Because that's super easy to make.

Nah, but apparently there's one in Henne Mines like the Formalhut?

Maximilian/Shishak in Lhusu Mines III.

I have those, I think.

But from what I remember of 122333's in the vanilla release: You need Mirror Mails (which Basch can't equip... thankfully Ruby Rings are able to be used by him and Penelo), Rubber Suits (or whatever the armor was called) and some other one to absorb damage. And with the ability to equip accessories without worrying about EXP gain anymore, maybe ribbons.