Healer and Support Roles

[Nezkeys]

Whm/Shikari
vs
Whm/Foebreaker

and
Monk/Time
vs
Knight/Time

Im thinking of using a Rdm/Shikari with 2 of the above (trying out using the rdm as a pseudo blm especially with chuchulain aga spells. Curious to see if it can be fine with fira+oil until then etc). Ive seen people say whm/foebreaker works well with rdm/shikari but not sure why that would work any better than a whm/shikari and rdm/shikari. The two time mage characters seem very similar to me. It seems one has more tankiness (knight) but the other(monk) gets better spells like renew and arise? Both these characters look like the could be full time healers and replace the whms tbh lol

Ive already beat the game and not bothered about optimization just wanna try out some different combos. In my last olaythrough my knight was pure dps and my monk was just wasted on blm. Curious how different the setups would be.

[Nezkeys]

Essentially it comes down to these 4 setups...

Rdm/Shikari
Whm/Shikari
Monk/Time

Rdm/Shikari
Whm/Shikari
Knight/Time

Rdm/Shikari
Whm/Foebreaker
Monk/Time

Rdm/Shikari
Whm/Foebreaker
Knight/Time

For fliers the knight doesnt have access to shades of black, and even though the monk does it doesnt need it cause poles. Also the rdm spells will probably enough (like the black mages were last playthrough). That would lean me toward monk/time but all its best support spells look late game. Knight/Time does appear to be able to perform better in this role early and mid game due to having acess to its healing spells earlier? The other thing on my mind is if both of these ae good enough to main heal...why use a whm at all?

[Hinnyuu]

My preferred setup is two characters that are both tank/heal/support hybrids - one for early/mid/late game, and one for postgame superbosses.

The first is Shikari/White Mage. Shield + Main Gauche is great for when evasion still works, and since it's also the main healer you can afford more berserk uptime on the rest of the team, vastly increasing damage output. Shikari/Red Battlemage is a possible alternative, trading offensive casting for the (imo better) two offensive WM buffs Bravery and Faith. Once evasion stops being useful, this can transition into a damage dealer with Yagyu Darkblade + Black Robes.

The second is Machinist/White Mage. I mostly play this as a gun turret, early Arcturus/Mithuna + Berserker Bracers and let her rip. The White Mage part is mostly a fallback, but with some micro it can also be used for out-of-combat buff uptime (unequipping Berserker Bracers). At postgame, this is my preferred superboss tank, using Reverse (I refrain from using Wither on superbosses). It has the advantage of having access to both Bravery and Hastega, meaning it can tank but also maintain those two buffs on the other two (berserked) damage dealers. Powerful spot-healing is also an option using Dark Shot + dark absorbing gear (since guns can't miss and will hit for about 100% of HP).

I find Time Battlemage extremely overrated and largely superfluous. Haste during early game is often pure overkill, particularly if you're already making liberal use of berserk and/or are grabbing insane weapons early on. Hastega is also available to a Machinist, which if you get the good guns early will be an absolute wrecking ball - while Time Battlemage just stands there not really doing anything.

Foebreaker is even worse, since it doesn't really add anything unique. Monk has natural access to Expose/Wither, the two most important breaks by far, but also brings more utility (like Bravery) and better stats (max HP licenses, max Battle Lores). There's really no objective reason to ever bring a Foebreaker.

Originally posted by Nezkeys:

the other thing on my mind is if both of these ae good enough to main heal...why use a whm at all?

I find White Mages are most attractive not because of their healing, but because they're the only job that has both mystic armor (for Black/White Robes) and the two damage buffs (Bravery/Faith), and it also supplies Green Magicks for tanking. If it was just about healing, a Monk or Knight can totally handle it, and even a Red Battlemage isn't terrible at late game healing.

How much you get out of everything depends a lot on how you like to play, though. There's many ways to approach things, and it's not like the game is hard enough to force you into one particular path. I'm just doing what I consider the path of least resistance based on how I usually play.

[Nezkeys]

Tbh i already kinda feel like whm/time is gonna be the best whm (the one i used last playthrough). Knight/Bushi was the tank and dps. I just wanna try different things. The tanky whm idea has to be shikari or foebreaker imo. Not sure whm and monk work

I never picked time mage for haste it was more disable, float and berserk etc without wasting time farming 99 motes or the gil to buy 99 of every mote + bacchus wine all the time. Honestly i sorta feel like a rdm is useless if you have a whm blm and time mage in the party too. Its main thing imo is ardor which only comes when the game is almost over...and its still an element so naturally will be absorbed/resisted by some enemies. It can also give dark robes to shikari hence why i wanna try rdm/shikari this time since my last playthrough was shikari/foebreaker but seriously there arent many battles where you really need it. Yiazmat was a joke with just darkblade.

Since this playthrough im trying to make the rdm a pseudo blm via chuchulain thats another reason why im using it. I had rdm/arc last time but only gave it chuchulain very late on so just curious how it fares until it gets that esper is all. Another reason for not running blm/rdm is i realised rdm provides almost nothing to blm outside of ardor at the end of the game except healing and disable, and has the lowest hp of any combo iirc. When you just wanna nuke thats all kinda pointless

Have a feeling monk/time is more.of a late bloomer compared knight/time in the support role

[Sakhari]

Originally posted by Nezkeys:

Another reason for not running blm/rdm is ... has the lowest hp of any combo iirc.

Black/Red gets 2115 hp from licences without having to use any espers. It's missing #2, #9, and #12 so it's 920 less than a Monk and 420 less than a Shikari/Red. It's actually a pretty good combo for HP coverage on a dedicated caster.

By contrast, White/Time caps at 1360 and that's only if you burn two espers on HP nodes. Last I checked, that was the lowest health combo in the game and it's one of the reasons I usually advise against it.

*edited - Missed the #9 license in the first comparison.

[Nezkeys]

Yeah the white/time is pretty low but i managed with it using decoy on someone else. Tbh i dont think there is that much difference between blm rdm whm and time in terms of hp? They all suck in that regard from what i remember?

[Nezkeys]

Edit: the rdm/shikari pure mage build still actually one shots with oil/fira without a flame staff :p

The whm/shikari is also very good too. Both of these with main gauche, shield blocks are pretty much untouchable unless going up against much higher enemies (like for instance the feywood as soon as you can because evasion and shield block doesnt help there as the enemies do way too much damage)

I prefer the knight/time to the monk/time also but thats because a) i have karkata and b) monks best whm spells dont come till much later. Tbh the knight with any weapon prob still does more damage. The knight/time ia a very good combo imo

[Hinnyuu]

I've never found HP to be hugely relevant. It's nice to have, for sure, but it's never really been a factor in my job selection, or my gearing decisions. Maybe when it comes to putting a Bubble Belt on the tank for a particular fight or something? But that's fairly rare, and often there aren't any hugely more useful accessories on tanks anyway. On damage dealers, I don't think I've ever used a Bubble Belt. And the only time I cast Bubble is not for HP but just to block Disease during early game (mostly when tackling Archaeoaevis).

[Nezkeys]

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

I've never found HP to be hugely relevant. It's nice to have, for sure, but it's never really been a factor in my job selection, or my gearing decisions. Maybe when it comes to putting a Bubble Belt on the tank for a particular fight or something? But that's fairly rare, and often there aren't any hugely more useful accessories on tanks anyway. On damage dealers, I don't think I've ever used a Bubble Belt. And the only time I cast Bubble is not for HP but just to block Disease during early game (mostly when tackling Archaeoaevis).

♥♥♥♥ archaeoaevis lol. Those guys were the hardest enemies in the game imo behind stage 100

[Hinnyuu]

Originally posted by Nezkeys:

Edit: the rdm/shikari pure mage build still actually one shots with oil/fira without a flame staff :p

If you need to cast Oil, it's not a oneshot. It's a two-shot, just one of them doesn't deal damage.

Originally posted by Nezkeys:

shield blocks are pretty much untouchable unless going up against much higher enemies (like for instance the feywood as soon as you can because evasion and shield block doesnt help there as the enemies do way too much damage)

I don't understand what you mean. Evasion has nothing to do with enemy stats or levels or how much damage they deal. Some enemies (mostly endgame marks/bosses) have the Ignore Evasion augment which makes them ignore evasion completely, but that's it. Against everything else, evasion is calculated based purely on the character's evasion stats (shield evasion/weapon evasion/parry), regardless of the enemy's stats, damage, or level.

[Nezkeys]

I have a similar style going in this playthrough tho tbh...

Whm/Shikari (steals then attacks)
Rdm/Shikari (oil+fira). When theyre immune to oil and/or fira i just attack normally. I have weapons stronger than main gauche now as at the salikawood but still prefer to keep main gauche on. Cant be bothered checking each enemies element weakness and altering gambits evwey 5 steps)
Knight/Time (disable then attacks which cause confuse)

The only difference is i have the buffs shared with all 3 characters this time as opposed to just whm/time in the last playthrough which was supported by a Blm/Monk and a Shikari/Breaker (which was the stealer) for trash and then knight/bushi came in on bosses instead of the blm

[Nezkeys]

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

Originally posted by Nezkeys:

Edit: the rdm/shikari pure mage build still actually one shots with oil/fira without a flame staff :p

If you need to cast Oil, it's not a oneshot. It's a two-shot, just one of them doesn't deal damage.

Originally posted by Nezkeys:

shield blocks are pretty much untouchable unless going up against much higher enemies (like for instance the feywood as soon as you can because evasion and shield block doesnt help there as the enemies do way too much damage)

I don't understand what you mean. Evasion has nothing to do with enemy stats or levels or how much damage they deal. Some enemies (mostly endgame marks/bosses) have the Ignore Evasion augment which makes them ignore evasion completely, but that's it. Against everything else, evasion is calculated based purely on the character's evasion stats (shield evasion/weapon evasion/parry), regardless of the enemy's stats, damage, or level.

Whm casts oil then the rdm has foe status oil: fira gambit which is slightly faster than having one character use two moves. The blm didnt one shot with flame staff fira no oil last playthrough anyway. It had to be with oil. Basically the rdm is a pretty good replacement so far considering no staffs to boost elements

Well when i went to the feywood those enemies must ignore evasion then because both shikaris couldnt last more than like 3 hits. The mandragoras and the mirror knights completely destroyed the party. When i mentioned damage i didnt mean it has anything to do with evasion...just that the times they were getting hits in was just too much damage too quickly thus rendering main gauche useless (no weapon would matter tbh as my levels are too low to kill them/withstand their hits long enough). I could have no evasion against a rat but it would still be fine since the hits im receiving are irrelevant

[Hinnyuu]

Originally posted by Nezkeys:

Whm casts oil then the rdm has foe status oil: fira gambit which is slightly faster than having one character use two moves.

But slightly slower than two characters using two damage moves (since you need Oil to be up first). That still doesn't make it a oneshot. But it does allow a character with low damage output (White Mage) to contribute effective damage, I suppose. Though it is precisely for that reason that I do not like having characters that can't function as primary damage dealers.

Originally posted by Nezkeys:

Well when i went to the feywood those enemies must ignore evasion then because both shikaris couldnt last more than like 3 hits. The mandragoras and the mirror knights completely destroyed the party.

Neither of those has Ignore Evade. In fact VERY few normal enemies (i.e. not rare/mark/trophy/boss) have Ignore Evade.

Originally posted by Nezkeys:

When i mentioned damage i didnt mean it has anything to do with evasion...

I can't speak to what you meant, only to what you said :P Also, try using Disable or Immobilize. You can farm the Abysteels in the Henne Mines back entrance (via Feywood) at low levels even though they're lvl60+.