People don't get Vaan

[Unseen]

Vaan gets a lot of hate i notice, I don't usually tend to hate characters. Hell kratos is a character I dislike for his immoral nature and taking his rage out on princesses major scumbag there, dude from hitman everyone should have contempt for, those are the kinda characters I hate. But regardless that's just my idea of a loathsome character, someone who is without merit. But vaan, I think people are missing who vaan is suppose to be.. He's a kid, he's a street rat actually. And he's not suppose to be this big bad soldier cloud is, or fearless dream the gods made like tidus. He's a kid who lost one of his family members to an unjust empire that invaded his nation, and he's just going along for the ride. He's not my favorite character in 12, that goes to baltheir because he's intelligent and has a plan and knows what he's doing. But vaan's still the lead character cause he's the observer, he's the youngest one next to penelo and he's along for the ride. In that way I think that vaan is kinda cool, he's the one they get to do everything for them basically. Why else is vaan the only one you see in town, he's the young man, bassh is to busy guarding the princess, baltheirs formulating schemes and plans, ashe is uh, the princess.
So it all makes sense why vaan is kinda underwhelming, he's just this young kid who got dragged into this mess basically, but still kinda agrees with it for his own reasons.

Personally speaking I don't understand why his stats seem so much higher than everyone else given his position. Seems like baash has lower stats than van and he's the older knight dude so I don't understand how that makes sense, but maybe I'm wrong I haven't even beaten the game yet feel free and correct me but based on my build vaan seems stronger.

So i really think that vaan is an ok character, he's just this kid who lost a brother to the empire and wants to help the princess and her loyal subjects reclaim dalmasca, in fact I'd dare say he's brave, both him and penelo for getting into this journey.

[JonWoo]

Sounds like people get him to me. That's everyone's complaint about him, he's just there and feels entirely pointless because of it yet he's used in such a way that he's a focal point and it makes it feel like he's just in the way of the real story.

[Unseen]

Originally posted by Jonwoo89:

Sounds like people get him to me. That's everyone's complaint about him, he's just there and feels entirely pointless because of it yet he's used in such a way that he's a focal point and it makes it feel like he's just in the way of the real story.

Well kinda yea, I mean, he's fresh what does he really have to add to the story besides, hey my bro died too, or, something... He is kinda awkward, and penelo likes to mess with him.

Other than that I just think he was created to be the guy, like from the players perspective or something.

[Casurin]

Most people complain exactly because he is such a boring uninteresting character.
he is the gover that gets ttold to do the errands cause everybody else is actually doing something. And he acts like a spoilt delusional brat from time to time, acting like he would be the best or as if he would understand what is going on.

as many have said - he is the underwhelming bystander watching as the story around Balthier and Ash unfolds.

[Honorable_D]

But he can see the ghost thing too! OOOoooOOooo!

[Carnasid]

Vaan only exists so Penelo can be a plot device to get Balthier to Bhujerba.

[Billon]

Vaan exists 'cause Basch is too old to be an FF main character

Originally posted by RB:

Vaan only exists so Penelo can be a plot device to get Balthier to Bhujerba.

Also, this.

[Briggs]

As has been said, people DO get him.

Writers have a saying: "Kill your Darlings". Basically you can think of this as "cut the fat". Everything in a story needs to serve the story. If something exists just because you want it to, or because you think it would be fun to try, or whatever, you cut it. That's your "darling", something you like but which waters down the story.

Vaan doesn't make the story worse, per se, but he waters it down. The narrative would have been tighter if they had gotten rid of Vaan and Penelo. Sure, he serves the observer role, the "everyman", but do we NEED that? The answer is "no". Vaan is not part of the plot. He does not serve the plot. The plot serves him. That is backwards.

[Skopin]

Originally posted by Krovoc:

As has been said, people DO get him.

Writers have a saying: "Kill your Darlings". Basically you can think of this as "cut the fat". Everything in a story needs to serve the story. If something exists just because you want it to, or because you think it would be fun to try, or whatever, you cut it. That's your "darling", something you like but which waters down the story.

Vaan doesn't make the story worse, per se, but he waters it down. The narrative would have been tighter if they had gotten rid of Vaan and Penelo. Sure, he serves the observer role, the "everyman", but do we NEED that? The answer is "no". Vaan is not part of the plot. He does not serve the plot. The plot serves him. That is backwards.

He serves the plot until they get Penelo back in Bhujerba. It's how they get all the characters together. After that, he has no real reason to be there. And by extension, Penelo, since she is only there because Vaan is there.

[Briggs]

Originally posted by Skopin830:

Originally posted by Krovoc:

As has been said, people DO get him.

Writers have a saying: "Kill your Darlings". Basically you can think of this as "cut the fat". Everything in a story needs to serve the story. If something exists just because you want it to, or because you think it would be fun to try, or whatever, you cut it. That's your "darling", something you like but which waters down the story.

Vaan doesn't make the story worse, per se, but he waters it down. The narrative would have been tighter if they had gotten rid of Vaan and Penelo. Sure, he serves the observer role, the "everyman", but do we NEED that? The answer is "no". Vaan is not part of the plot. He does not serve the plot. The plot serves him. That is backwards.

He serves the plot until they get Penelo back in Bhujerba. It's how they get all the characters together. After that, he has no real reason to be there. And by extension, Penelo, since she is only there because Vaan is there.

No. That is a case of the plot being twisted to justify his existence. They could have just as easily come together without those two. Not in that exact way, but they very easily could have.

Balthier is a sky pirate, that he would be in Bhujerba is not would even questioning. Ashe was under the Marquis's protection. It isn't unreasonable for the the two (and by extension Fran, the third) to be in the same place. Furthermore, I wouldn't put it past Ashe to strong arm (in some way) Balthier into aiding her in rescuing Basch.

The real problem would be the lack of characters. The devs would want to introduce two more just to have back up party members. These two could have even been Vaan and Penelo, but playing different roles in the story.

[Skopin]

Originally posted by Krovoc:

Originally posted by Skopin830:

He serves the plot until they get Penelo back in Bhujerba. It's how they get all the characters together. After that, he has no real reason to be there. And by extension, Penelo, since she is only there because Vaan is there.

No. That is a case of the plot being twisted to justify his existence. They could have just as easily come together without those two. Not in that exact way, but they very easily could have.

Balthier is a sky pirate, that he would be in Bhujerba is not would even questioning. Ashe was under the Marquis's protection. It isn't unreasonable for the the two (and by extension Fran, the third) to be in the same place. Furthermore, I wouldn't put it past Ashe to strong arm (in some way) Balthier into aiding her in rescuing Basch.

The real problem would be the lack of characters. The devs would want to introduce two more just to have back up party members. These two could have even been Vaan and Penelo, but playing different roles in the story.

I don't think it would be that simple. Balthier and Fran would have likely never gotten sent to Nalbina if not for Vaan. That means they wouldn't have rescued Basch, and possibly wouldn't have encountered Ashe either.

Ashe wouldn't have wanted their help to rescue Basch; she thought he was dead, and even after discovering he was alive, she still thought he was a traitor. Prior to finding the nethicite in Bhujerba and Larsa mentioning Draklor, Balthier and Fran would have had no motivation to continue along with the party. And without Vaan, they would've had no reason to go to Bhujerba.

[Briggs]

Originally posted by Skopin830:

Originally posted by Krovoc:

No. That is a case of the plot being twisted to justify his existence. They could have just as easily come together without those two. Not in that exact way, but they very easily could have.

Balthier is a sky pirate, that he would be in Bhujerba is not would even questioning. Ashe was under the Marquis's protection. It isn't unreasonable for the the two (and by extension Fran, the third) to be in the same place. Furthermore, I wouldn't put it past Ashe to strong arm (in some way) Balthier into aiding her in rescuing Basch.

The real problem would be the lack of characters. The devs would want to introduce two more just to have back up party members. These two could have even been Vaan and Penelo, but playing different roles in the story.

I don't think it would be that simple. Balthier and Fran would have likely never gotten sent to Nalbina if not for Vaan. That means they wouldn't have rescued Basch, and possibly wouldn't have encountered Ashe either.

Ashe wouldn't have wanted their help to rescue Basch; she thought he was dead, and even after discovering he was alive, she still thought he was a traitor. Prior to finding the nethicite in Bhujerba and Larsa mentioning Draklor, Balthier and Fran would have had no motivation to continue along with the party. And without Vaan, they would've had no reason to go to Bhujerba.

You are making presumptions based on the existing plot. There is absolutely no reason to do that. Ashe could have heard a remor. As for winding up in prison, again, sky pirates. Its only complicated if you assume the plot is set in stone.

[Marmo]

One of the things that make me love FFXII so much over the others. The punk blonde kid right in the middle of the game's cover isn't even the protagonist of the story. We see politics going ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ crazy through this kid's eyes and at the end of the day its one hell of an adventure.

[Skopin]

Originally posted by Krovoc:

Originally posted by Skopin830:

I don't think it would be that simple. Balthier and Fran would have likely never gotten sent to Nalbina if not for Vaan. That means they wouldn't have rescued Basch, and possibly wouldn't have encountered Ashe either.

Ashe wouldn't have wanted their help to rescue Basch; she thought he was dead, and even after discovering he was alive, she still thought he was a traitor. Prior to finding the nethicite in Bhujerba and Larsa mentioning Draklor, Balthier and Fran would have had no motivation to continue along with the party. And without Vaan, they would've had no reason to go to Bhujerba.

You are making presumptions based on the existing plot. There is absolutely no reason to do that. Ashe could have heard a remor. As for winding up in prison, again, sky pirates. Its only complicated if you assume the plot is set in stone.

Well yea, that was kinda the point of what we're talking about lol. Of course they could change the plot. They could also change the plot so Vaan has a better reason to be there and/or a more important role. I'm just saying that with the story playing out the way that it did, he was the reason the party got together. After that, he had no reason to stay with them except for boredom/curiosity.

Even if Ashe had heard a rumor that Basch was still alive, I still don't think she would've wanted to rescue him, as she still felt he was a traitor. And she was only under Ondore's protection after she was rescued from Ghis, which is after Vaan got Balthier, Fran, and Basch together, after the first trip to Bhujerba.

Without Vaan, Penelo doesn't run up to Balthier after getting caught in Garamsythe, which means Ba'gamnan doesn't kidnap Penelo because of a link to Balthier, which means Balthier has no reason to go to Bhujerba.

They would essentially need to rewrite the entire beginning of the story to get everyone together without Vaan. After Bhujerba, Vann could disappear and the story really wouldn't change.

[Casurin]

Originally posted by Skopin830:

~snip~

And all that shows that Vaan is not an important character, even saying he is a minor character is stretching it a bit - he is just the convenient plotpoint, the oddity, the accident that just so happens to be part of the story.
He him self is never the driving actor.

If a car crashes against a tree and the driver later falls in love with the first person that helped - is it that specific tree that has done anything noteworthy?

[Kayderim]

Originally posted by Skopin830:

Originally posted by Krovoc:

As has been said, people DO get him.

Writers have a saying: "Kill your Darlings". Basically you can think of this as "cut the fat". Everything in a story needs to serve the story. If something exists just because you want it to, or because you think it would be fun to try, or whatever, you cut it. That's your "darling", something you like but which waters down the story.

Vaan doesn't make the story worse, per se, but he waters it down. The narrative would have been tighter if they had gotten rid of Vaan and Penelo. Sure, he serves the observer role, the "everyman", but do we NEED that? The answer is "no". Vaan is not part of the plot. He does not serve the plot. The plot serves him. That is backwards.

He serves the plot until they get Penelo back in Bhujerba. It's how they get all the characters together. After that, he has no real reason to be there. And by extension, Penelo, since she is only there because Vaan is there.

Isn't Vaan the reason that the whole party got together in the first place? He's the one who saved Ashe's life in the sewers and freed Basch from prison, he is the reason that Ashe matured and didn't use the nuke shard.

And he's also the reason that led the group to meet Larsa (by going to Bhujerba), and without that kid, Ashe would have never got her throne back.

So yeah, Vaan is pretty important to the story.