Should pistols have stats actively worse then a rifle beyond certain aspects

[Spiffyo™]

I say this because pistols can help you fight healthily at longer ranges with shotguns and have faster fire rate in closer quarters with long ammo options, and duallies on their own are just straight up cheap to fight with and against due to rng like a random crit in tf2.

Pistols should universally have headshot multiplier drop to x1.5-x2 over the current x3 to make headshot lethality a tighter margin to OHKO on their own. Adding to that, have their damage dropoff point should be cut in half to 10 or 20M over the current ammo types range.

Pistols are mean't to either be a starting engagement tool or backup tool, if they're inbetween then their just a rifle with more sway, whereas currently duallies are a lower skill weapon and have a high enough reward that the risk in taking them can usually be mute.

[Peter Panzy]

I can kind of agree to dropping the HS Multy down some, but you got to rember, pistols can be a main load out. Beauty of Hunt, there is no restriction to what you can bring, everything is lethal in their own respective ranges.

Pistols are meant to be a short-mid range weapon, dropping that range down to 10m would just make single shot shotguns.... which shotguns are even more mindless to use.

As for ammo, I think there is some small pros/cons to them, in regards to performance. I believe FMJ has more kick and Speed rounds are loader... but i could be wrong on that. If i am though, it would be cool balancing factor, but would have to be universal... EA: Speed rounds for long ammo should take longer to reload, so people can rush up to them faster, when they are shotting from 2 compounds away....

[Spiffyo™]

Originally posted by Peter Panzy:

I can kind of agree to dropping the HS Multy down some, but you got to rember, pistols can be a main load out. Beauty of Hunt, there is no restriction to what you can bring, everything is lethal in their own respective ranges.

Pistols are meant to be a short-mid range weapon, dropping that range down to 10m would just make single shot shotguns.... which shotguns are even more mindless to use.

As for ammo, I think there is some small pros/cons to them, in regards to performance. I believe FMJ has more kick and Speed rounds are loader... but i could be wrong on that. If i am though, it would be cool balancing factor, but would have to be universal... EA: Speed rounds for long ammo should take longer to reload, so people can rush up to them faster, when they are shotting from 2 compounds away....

I did mean that with the 10M, that light and medium would be cut in half since they're damage dropoff starts at 20M currently.

Though I did want to ask why shotguns would be even more mindless if pistols had 10M range for full damage, the falloff wouldn't make them three shot until after 20M if this change happened(For example the Nagant Silenced still 2 shots at 20M while the default still two shots at 30M) and can still OHKO at ~40M if the headshot multiplier isn't dropped.

My perspective of the changes are to tighten the quarters of effectiveness the secondaries do, mainly to hamper the effectiveness of fanning and duallies. I think stuff like the Bornheim should have a x3 headshot multiplier to make it the essential head clicker.

[geordiebroon58]

unless theres some paticular weapon in mind you are talking about i can say pistols are oerall fine as the way they are

High fire rate pistols arent as good as shotguns and as far as i can tell suck for range while something like the caldwell's make good for a ranged sidearm

caldwell uppercut maybe have a bit more sway but overall pistols being accurate and having range in my eyes is a good thing.

they dont do near as good bodyshot damage at range and requires aim (just like any other gun)

dule pistols can be kinda annoying but you need to learn the firerate of that pair and it takes up 2 slots where you could have something like a compact shotgun, sure less skill overall but you have to adapt to a playstyle and learn different things (like fire rate effective range due to accuracy etc)

as for chain pistol fanning as much as being able to use fanning is cool it just breaks the games balance especially on the chain pistol

also most pistols use compact bullets so they have weak penetration values and weapons under compact ammo is given slower mussle velocity so its harder to hit target at range (mussle velocity and ammo type are different stats and not tied to the same thing)

[Spiffyo™]

Originally posted by geordiebroon58:

unless theres some paticular weapon in mind you are talking about i can say pistols are oerall fine as the way they are

High fire rate pistols arent as good as shotguns and as far as i can tell suck for range while something like the caldwell's make good for a ranged sidearm

caldwell uppercut maybe have a bit more sway but overall pistols being accurate and having range in my eyes is a good thing.

they dont do near as good bodyshot damage at range and requires aim (just like any other gun)

dule pistols can be kinda annoying but you need to learn the firerate of that pair and it takes up 2 slots where you could have something like a compact shotgun, sure less skill overall but you have to adapt to a playstyle and learn different things (like fire rate effective range due to accuracy etc)

as for chain pistol fanning as much as being able to use fanning is cool it just breaks the games balance especially on the chain pistol

also most pistols use compact bullets so they have weak penetration values and weapons under compact ammo is given slower mussle velocity so its harder to hit target at range (mussle velocity and ammo type are different stats and not tied to the same thing)

Pistols are overall fine and thats true, though I think they also make taking compact and medium ammo rifles a bit pointless as they perform similiar to those two options, minus the increased sway, as taking a shotgun has the extreme of being powerful in close range and long ammo having great burst damage and damage over range.

the double actions/spitfire/clip pistols aren't going to outperform a shotgun in close range, but rather being a really powerful followup to taking a shot with long reload/cycle guns as they're higher rpm means you can shoot alot faster and not have to wait nearly a second to shoot again like the conversion.

I never vouched that the pistols should have worse accuracy outside of the sway, though I do vouch that they should have worse damage over range as to keep them performing well in closer ranges but worse then rifles in longer ranges

Duallies, in particular the Scottfields and Nagants, are really accurate, and in general have over double the fire rate of one pistol. Their effective range can be anywhere from 5-50 meters depending on rng and with this, the absurd fire rate can mean they could likely kill you before you can get a second or third shot off.

chain pistol fanning is an issue, but the silenced nagant, conversion, and pax are really sharp with fanning and you won't know if the user has fanning until they drop you in a second.

Special ammo types can rectify either issue with it being worse on the other side(though FMJ is almost always better due to better damage over range).

Worse falloff and headshot multipliers is generally mean't to have those running duallies/fanning to have similiar issues to shotguns while generally being alright at farther ranges unlike shotguns, whilst making those lucky headshot kills less likely to occur, and have compact and medium ammo rifles generally performing well without feeling redundant over a pistol.

[BlackWolf9988]

making pistols weaker on longer ranges would just make long ammo even stronger. dual wield is also only really a problem in low to mid elo, because people cant aim there.

[Peter Panzy]

Originally posted by Spiffyo™:

]

I did mean that with the 10M, that light and medium would be cut in half since they're damage dropoff starts at 20M currently.

Though I did want to ask why shotguns would be even more mindless if pistols had 10M range for full damage, the falloff wouldn't make them three shot until after 20M if this change happened(For example the Nagant Silenced still 2 shots at 20M while the default still two shots at 30M) and can still OHKO at ~40M if the headshot multiplier isn't dropped.

My perspective of the changes are to tighten the quarters of effectiveness the secondaries do, mainly to hamper the effectiveness of fanning and duallies. I think stuff like the Bornheim should have a x3 headshot multiplier to make it the essential head clicker.

Not to sure about the drop off damage range to be honost, if that is correct though, you have a logical point. If Med. ammo is 20M then small should be little under or half, but for balance shotties would have to be reduced as well.

Though, i will put this out... Alot of the complaints I have with the game isn't the gun balance... i think it is fine for the most part. Its the servers themselves that cater towards spray-N-pray/shotguns Vs ADS guns. EA: Trades, Hit-reg issue, plain old lag and server stuttering.... Stuff that seems to get worse and worse with no mention of a fix. HOWEVER, Crytek did do a AWSOME job on removing the left-peek-advantage. So credit due to wheres it due

[geordiebroon58]

Originally posted by Spiffyo™:

Originally posted by geordiebroon58:

unless theres some paticular weapon in mind you are talking about i can say pistols are oerall fine as the way they are

High fire rate pistols arent as good as shotguns and as far as i can tell suck for range while something like the caldwell's make good for a ranged sidearm

caldwell uppercut maybe have a bit more sway but overall pistols being accurate and having range in my eyes is a good thing.

they dont do near as good bodyshot damage at range and requires aim (just like any other gun)

dule pistols can be kinda annoying but you need to learn the firerate of that pair and it takes up 2 slots where you could have something like a compact shotgun, sure less skill overall but you have to adapt to a playstyle and learn different things (like fire rate effective range due to accuracy etc)

as for chain pistol fanning as much as being able to use fanning is cool it just breaks the games balance especially on the chain pistol

also most pistols use compact bullets so they have weak penetration values and weapons under compact ammo is given slower mussle velocity so its harder to hit target at range (mussle velocity and ammo type are different stats and not tied to the same thing)

Pistols are overall fine and thats true, though I think they also make taking compact and medium ammo rifles a bit pointless as they perform similiar to those two options, minus the increased sway, as taking a shotgun has the extreme of being powerful in close range and long ammo having great burst damage and damage over range.

the double actions/spitfire/clip pistols aren't going to outperform a shotgun in close range, but rather being a really powerful followup to taking a shot with long reload/cycle guns as they're higher rpm means you can shoot alot faster and not have to wait nearly a second to shoot again like the conversion.

I never vouched that the pistols should have worse accuracy outside of the sway, though I do vouch that they should have worse damage over range as to keep them performing well in closer ranges but worse then rifles in longer ranges

Duallies, in particular the Scottfields and Nagants, are really accurate, and in general have over double the fire rate of one pistol. Their effective range can be anywhere from 5-50 meters depending on rng and with this, the absurd fire rate can mean they could likely kill you before you can get a second or third shot off.

chain pistol fanning is an issue, but the silenced nagant, conversion, and pax are really sharp with fanning and you won't know if the user has fanning until they drop you in a second.

Special ammo types can rectify either issue with it being worse on the other side(though FMJ is almost always better due to better damage over range).

Worse falloff and headshot multipliers is generally mean't to have those running duallies/fanning to have similiar issues to shotguns while generally being alright at farther ranges unlike shotguns, whilst making those lucky headshot kills less likely to occur, and have compact and medium ammo rifles generally performing well without feeling redundant over a pistol.

dulies i have no problem with as theres enough rng to make it unreliale but consitent and sure you can have a "effective range up to 50m" or something but the odds of shooting that is way too unlikely to actually happen

as for closer ranges i find it equl or argubly better than shotguns, shotguns are still king of pushing but the dule pistols work better at a "dont come any closer" zone and finishing a target off

compaired to chain pistol fanning theres thought process and pratical use while not being as easy to use where fanning is ha ha spray and pray,

as for pistols on their own i guess they could lower the effective range even more but at that point it would become uneessarly bad i could only agree with the additional penalty to high fire rate guns

sure they shouldnt be some pocket rifle like the upper cut is but most fights are around 25-60m if pistols went useless beyond 20 in most scenarios they cant even be a follow up gun

its the same reason why shotguns have so much range despite being a close ranged weapons they have like an effective 1 tap range around 10m as being even within 15m of a target in this game is actually very close to them since how fights normally play out if you had to be any closer with shotguns you may as well go without your primary weapon

if pistols didnt have that sort of effective range trying to go for that follow up shot or a backup gun would be pointlessin most scenarios

[Peter Panzy]

Originally posted by BAYOU GILF HUNTER:

making pistols weaker on longer ranges would just make long ammo even stronger. dual wield is also only really a problem in low to mid elo, because people cant aim there.

Actually not really, i see dualies/fanning/levering all the time in the upper elos. Isn't as common though, cause you are right... does require less skill. However, a true leet player is goin to capitalize on any style to maximize its strengths. Use Dualies/fanning/levering enough and you get a 'feel' for the gun and where bullets will most likely land... those are the truly dangerous players. Though, i will add this... alot of players are elevated to higher ELOs cause they abuse the 'Bug/Glitch/Flavor-of-the-month' weapons/tools... So thats there to

[BlackWolf9988]

Originally posted by Peter Panzy:

Originally posted by BAYOU GILF HUNTER:

making pistols weaker on longer ranges would just make long ammo even stronger. dual wield is also only really a problem in low to mid elo, because people cant aim there.

Actually not really, i see dualies/fanning/levering all the time in the upper elos. Isn't as common though, cause you are right... does require less skill. However, a true leet player is goin to capitalize on any style to maximize its strengths. Use Dualies/fanning/levering enough and you get a 'feel' for the gun and where bullets will most likely land... those are the truly dangerous players. Though, i will add this... alot of players are elevated to higher ELOs cause they abuse the 'Bug/Glitch/Flavor-of-the-month' weapons/tools... So thats there to

90% of 5 - 6 star play avto, nitro or sniper.

[Peter Panzy]

Not saying your wrong, but without actual numbers... just opinion. Its going to be higher though, cause a more skilled player is goin to use more skill based gear to better themselves, but not all do that. Again, alot of 'wannabe' high elos just crutching their way up there.

Also, we can't even get Crytek to give numbers on how many cheaters they ban or who they are.....

[EmperorC3]

Originally posted by Spiffyo™:

I say this because pistols can help you fight healthily at longer ranges with shotguns and have faster fire rate in closer quarters with long ammo options, and duallies on their own are just straight up cheap to fight with and against due to rng like a random crit in tf2.

I think most pistols are in a fairly good spot right now. They bring a ton of variety into the game in terms of loadout options and its good to see pistols being a legitimate choice in a shooter instead of an afterthought. Especially in a time period where pistols are so iconic.

But let's address your points. I'm assuming you are talking about the uppercut helping shotguns as its the best pistol at long range? With its sway and damage falloff it can't contest an equal skill berthier, lebel or mosin at any of those rifles' respective ranges. You are realistically a short range loadout with a medium range option.
As for a pistol supporting the rifles, those pistols have nothing on shotguns. It helps support the weakness, but the weakness is still there.
As for dualies, pistols in general should not be nerfed or changed because of dualies. That change should be specific to them.

[Ciri Facial Elen Riannon]

I can't agree. Pistol ammunition is weaker than Rifle ammo. But if u get a shot in the Head with a pistol, u still die. Same when u get hit in your lungs or hart. We dont have hart hitzone, but the headshot at closer ranges should still kill you.

Guns are deadly.

[Grief Factory Employee]

This is a game set in the wild west era of the late 1800s. Pistols were a main weapon for a lot of dudes, including the guy who I am named after.
They have to keep pistols good because a chad gunslinger brings a good 'ole revolver and true grit only.