What do snipers provide to this game?

[Patryk Ocurra]

It's a playstyle that ignores basically all of the mechanics unique to the game because snipers are fundamentally the same in almost every game. Sit back 200 meters away and click on heads with varying degrees of difficulty based on the gun's stats, ballistics, overall game mechanics and the willingness of your opponents to be total spastics on the WASD keys. Honest to god the worst experiences I've personally ever had in this game involve fighting solo snipers and it's so demoralizing that I just want to stop playing in general especially as I've gotten higher in MMR and the play style becomes far more common. I don't care that long range combat happens, I care that snipers are so damn precise at extreme ranges since there's no ballistics or anything that usually add a level of skill to snipers in other games. Combine that with the mandatory instant death headshots and it's just a downright unpleasant experience to be on the receiving end of. It's not even reliable to run away from snipers since if they've got map awareness they will pursue and still be able to harass and pick off your team. So yeah, at a loss of what to do against this playstyle and trying to suppress my own personal bias to call it toxic as ♥♥♥♥.

[UltraGolden]

the chance to aimbot your K/D up
"the game works just as intended" is what you get as repsonse for submitting a real cheater

[Metro]

Playing long range sniper scope is an extremely toxic playstyle. the thing is, there is absolutely no counter play at all. you have to take cover and hope that he is focused on someone else's head that's the only thing you could do. and spitzer rounds oh yeah they made it much worse

[Anderaz]

He really wants only shotgun traders to be left in this game very clever

[Patryk Ocurra]

Originally posted by Anderaz:

He really wants only shotgun traders to be left in this game very clever

Originally posted by stetheboro:

Or equip a shotgun and trade most of the time.

At least shotguns have to engage with far more of hunt's gameplay in order to be effective.

[Nihil]

Someone got killed by a sniper i guess. :D

[Peter Panzy]

Yup, i agree with this argument, I rather fight a team of corner camping shotty scrubs than a long scope sniper 2 compounds away. The problem is the types of scopes, since most fights are closer quarter, the long scope and the marks just lets players sit way to far back. This problem is compounded by what the OP said about no bullet drop (really no skill involved), the introduction of the Spitzer round and the games natural design around camping.

[Evillo]

Originally posted by Peter Panzy:

Yup, i agree with this argument, I rather fight a team of corner camping shotty scrubs than a long scope sniper 2 compounds away. The problem is the types of scopes, since most fights are closer quarter, the long scope and the marks just lets players sit way to far back. This problem is compounded by what the OP said about no bullet drop (really no skill involved), the introduction of the Spitzer round and the games natural design around camping.

2 compounds away would meand 400 mt, the guy would need to play in a 8k monitor to be able to see you even with a sniper + he would be out of range even with a spark

[ANIM Rawrs]

I mean a sniper played well can be quite the boon to a team, but sadly not allot of players actually know how to play them and when to switch to actually help their team other then just sitting still in that one spot where they have no supporting vision anymore.

A insane amount of map knowledge and awareness is needed. This results in many hours clocked to this singular purpose. If anything i wouldnt say the sniping itself is hard to do, but anything map related and teamfight based.

Where are all your vantage points and where do they have vision on. Is the enemy team going around the backside or the front where you can actually shoot at them. So you killed one, whats next ? Are you going to camp them or use this opportunity to move forward towards the next point. When will you drop the sniper to actually engage. How much bars does everybody have left. Do you need to rotate as you dont see anybody and you cant support your team. Is another team coming for your arse etc etc etc.

I hardly ever come across a good sniper that will actually get the bounty off of my cold fingers. Mostly its just a body shot or a down without anything after as they dont know what to do with this down apart from corpse camping it. usually a simple smoke or 2 will throw them off enough so you can get your teammate up. Hitting a headshot on somebody wiggeling while rezzing through smoke is not as easy as it may seem especially on 200m range. + points if you first "fake rezz" and dodge the sniper bullet.

TL:DR i do think snipers have a place in the game, just not many people are able to utilize it well enough to make a difference.

[Patryk Ocurra]

Originally posted by Nihil:

Someone got killed by a sniper i guess. :D

Many times in many different games. By far hunt has the most frustrating sniper experience since the game mechanics often encourage slow methodical gameplay that snipers benefit heavily from.

Originally posted by Peter Panzy:

Yup, i agree with this argument, I rather fight a team of corner camping shotty scrubs than a long scope sniper 2 compounds away. The problem is the types of scopes, since most fights are closer quarter, the long scope and the marks just lets players sit way to far back. This problem is compounded by what the OP said about no bullet drop (really no skill involved), the introduction of the Spitzer round and the games natural design around camping.

At least you can hear people camping in buildings and then frag them or put rounds through the walls to force them out. Sniping is the only play style that is only countered by itself and in some cases is almost untouchable by many loadouts.

Originally posted by ANIM Rawrs:

I mean a sniper played well can be quite the boon to a team, but sadly not allot of players actually know how to play them and when to switch to actually help their team other then just sitting still in that one spot where they have no supporting vision anymore.

A insane amount of map knowledge and awareness is needed. This results in many hours clocked to this singular purpose. If anything i wouldnt say the sniping itself is hard to do, but anything map related and teamfight based.

Where are all your vantage points and where do they have vision on. Is the enemy team going around the backside or the front where you can actually shoot at them. So you killed one, whats next ? Are you going to camp them or use this opportunity to move forward towards the next point. When will you drop the sniper to actually engage. How much bars does everybody have left. Do you need to rotate as you dont see anybody and you cant support your team. Is another team coming for your arse etc etc etc.

I hardly ever come across a good sniper that will actually get the bounty off of my cold fingers. Mostly its just a body shot or a down without anything after as they dont know what to do with this down apart from corpse camping it. usually a simple smoke or 2 will throw them off enough so you can get your teammate up. Hitting a headshot on somebody wiggeling while rezzing through smoke is not as easy as it may seem especially on 200m range. + points if you first "fake rezz" and dodge the sniper bullet.

TL:DR i do think snipers have a place in the game, just not many people are able to utilize it well enough to make a difference.

I'm aware that snipers can be useful I just think that their playstyle is bad for the game. You mention snipers failing their teams more often then not and I mention the oppressive nature of a good sniper with map awareness and good aim. I've seen both of these play out many times especially playing trios with randoms where it's a coin toss. Any meta game skill that a sniper has can absolutely be used by anyone with any weapon so things like map awareness and knowledge, vantage points, teamfighting, etc... are not exclusive to them.

[Terminal Velocity]

Well, the purpose of solo snipers are many. For example:

- Elo farming. If you fight at close range as a solo you risk dying, and since the matchmaker system makes you at least 1 start higher than most trios, even if you get 3 kills, if you die once, you drop elo. So they stay away to avoid dying. For example, Im 1.64 KDA (100% solo, so just 12 assists out of 2800+ kills, almost 2 K/D in my last 1500 kills or so), and Im stuck at 3* for running at people, even when I kill far more than I die.
When I play solo sniper only for many rounds, and take care of NOT DYING, I can easily and consistently get to the mid 5* bracket.
See the difference? The key is not dying and that's why they snipe from afar.

- Ruin your round. Self-explanatory, sometimes it's incredibly fun to ruin the round of a 3-man team, since trio players are not really very good at the game, compared to solo players.

- Harvest your tears when you come to the forums to cry about it.

But seriously, we all have preferences about what we dont like facing. I hate fanning with Chain Pistols since it ruins my fun when I run at people with a knife. Some people such as you, hate snipers. What can you do? Just run the other way, lol.

[Patryk Ocurra]

Originally posted by Terminal Velocity:

Well, the purpose of solo snipers are many. For example:

- Elo farming. If you fight at close range as a solo you risk dying, and since the matchmaker system makes you at least 1 start higher than most trios, even if you get 3 kills, if you die once, you drop elo. So they stay away to avoid dying. For example, Im 1.64 KDA (100% solo, so just 12 assists out of 2800+ kills, almost 2 K/D in my last 1500 kills or so), and Im stuck at 3* for running at people, even when I kill far more than I die.
When I play solo sniper only for many rounds, and take care of NOT DYING, I can easily and consistently get to the mid 5* bracket.
See the difference? The key is not dying and that's why they snipe from afar.

- Ruin your round. Self-explanatory, sometimes it's incredibly fun to ruin the round of a 3-man team, since trio players are not really very good at the game, compared to solo players.

- Harvest your tears when you come to the forums to cry about it.

But seriously, we all have preferences about what we dont like facing. I hate fanning with Chain Pistols since it ruins my fun when I run at people with a knife. Some people such as you, hate snipers. What can you do? Just run the other way, lol.

I think you summed up the problems with the playstyle conceptually. MMR handicap for solos is unacceptable and huge part of why I hate that they're matchmade with trios in the first place.

[Chimpson]

I would even go as far as to argue that most shooter games would benefit from removing scoped weapons and even the possibility to do great damage over long distances.

It's a very unsatisfying fight when you get sniped in the head from 200m.

[Ash Princess]

Snipers grind the game to a halt... Once one is in the area it becomes a game of bunkering up because your vetterli or winfield is no match for someone sitting in a random bush 200m away.. And its really not difficult to be that bush jockey... Honestly they shouldn't drop solos mmr
I don't die to snipers much... Often times you just have to wait 20-30 minutes before they get impatiens and come close enough to kill because they can't really fight... Or you figure out what direction they're sniping and just... Run the opposite way... They often won't chase because they can't actually fight in a real engagement... Or they get bogged down by having to run through an extra compound they can't keep up... Either way playing against snipers is extremely booooring.

Shotguns are easy to counter... Just shoot from 12m away... Most rooms are large enough you can fan or lever or just... Shoot two bullets into a guy before he can get at shotgun range... Also winfield talon... Using the talon part... Ive ended shotgunners because of out maneuvering.

[Patryk Ocurra]

Originally posted by Chimpson:

I would even go as far as to argue that most shooter games would benefit from removing scoped weapons and even the possibility to do great damage over long distances.

It's a very unsatisfying fight when you get sniped in the head from 200m.

A man can dream lol. I personally don't have a problem with mosin, sparks, lebel, etc... and their very long range. I think ammo in general could use some rebalancing since long ammo is just so broadly effective and medium ammo is having an identity crisis, but I don't think it's the long range damage that's the problem there. But to get back to snipers, the sniper variants are playing an entirely different game from the rest of the weapons and that's the problem in my opinion.

Originally posted by Cherry Bobble:

Snipers grind the game to a halt... Once one is in the area it becomes a game of bunkering up because your vetterli or winfield is no match for someone sitting in a random bush 200m away.. And its really not difficult to be that bush jockey... Honestly they shouldn't drop solos mmr
I don't die to snipers much... Often times you just have to wait 20-30 minutes before they get impatiens and come close enough to kill because they can't really fight... Or you figure out what direction they're sniping and just... Run the opposite way... They often won't chase because they can't actually fight in a real engagement... Or they get bogged down by having to run through an extra compound they can't keep up... Either way playing against snipers is extremely booooring.

Shotguns are easy to counter... Just shoot from 12m away... Most rooms are large enough you can fan or lever or just... Shoot two bullets into a guy before he can get at shotgun range... Also winfield talon... Using the talon part... Ive ended shotgunners because of out maneuvering.

Yup, not engaging with a game mechanic is not counterplay so just running away is a valid strategy but it doesn't "counter" the problematic mechanic per say.

And yeah I don't get the whinging about shotguns. There's a huge range between snipers and shotguns where every other gun in the game falls between. And the range that shotguns are effective still requires you to play around with the game's other mechanics.

[Barry MaCockiner]

Every game would be shotgun poker. As much as they get whined about you gotta have alternative weapons and play-styles. The game would get very boring, very quickly without them.