Let people chat, when they are dead.

[Toxin]

I know its a complex idea.
People play in premades and use discord.
They can still communicate when dead.
Randoms play vs premades.
Randoms cant communicate when dead.

So why not let randoms also talk when dead?

[zannen mignon]

not very roleplay, its like remove the proximity vc for a everywhere vc

[take tome as core I feed]

Or... just use discord?

People using third party apps to gain an advantage will...always... have an advantage. The answer isn't to incorporate every advantage you can think of into the game.

People using autoaim have an advantage over those not using it. That doesn't mean they should make autoaim a feature.

A more logical (albeit still dumb) argument would be for Crytek to treat third party communication apps (discord, teamspeak, mumble, etc.) like they did the Nvidia Geforce filters and block their use while the game is open. Or take an even more extreme route: make all third party communication apps ban-able and add their signatures to EAC. Of course, neither of those suggestions are even close to feasible and people would just figure out a way to bypass them (using discord via a VM, their phones, etc.).

tl;dr: If you can't beat 'em, either join 'em or move on. The answer isn't to have the devs transform the game until you feel like you're on an even playing field with everyone else.

[Toxin]

Originally posted by Gonna cry?:

Or... just use discord?

People using third party apps to gain an advantage will...always... have an advantage. The answer isn't to incorporate every advantage you can think of into the game.

People using autoaim have an advantage over those not using it. That doesn't mean they should make autoaim a feature.

A more logical (albeit still dumb) argument would be for Crytek to treat third party communication apps (discord, teamspeak, mumble, etc.) like they did the Nvidia Geforce filters and block their use while the game is open. Or take an even more extreme route: make all third party communication apps ban-able and add their signatures to EAC. Of course, neither of those suggestions are even close to feasible and people would just figure out a way to bypass them (using discord via a VM, their phones, etc.).

tl;dr: If you can't beat 'em, either join 'em or move on. The answer isn't to have the devs transform the game until you feel like you're on an even playing field with everyone else.

Autoaim example isnt the best. In most common PVP FPS games are autoaim/aimbot tools bannable.

Also "just use discord" is not really practically, it make sense when you play with friends but thats not the point at all.

Thread is more about balancing the game. Thats why i said "I know its a complex idea".
People just bypass all ingame chat and voice mechanics if they use discord, but they can still hear randoms talking and writing.

Randoms dont have these abilities. Well, yes you could invite all randoms to your friendlist, ask them to download discord and invite them in your channel. But how long will it take? I mean some maybe dont even understand english or they are mute?

Team chat is the simplest solution also usable when dead. Blocking voice chat tools wont work, most streamers play in premades, use discord and they advertise this game somehow really solid.

[Sauske]

Originally posted by Gonna cry?:

Or... just use discord?

People using third party apps to gain an advantage will...always... have an advantage. The answer isn't to incorporate every advantage you can think of into the game.

People using autoaim have an advantage over those not using it. That doesn't mean they should make autoaim a feature.

A more logical (albeit still dumb) argument would be for Crytek to treat third party communication apps (discord, teamspeak, mumble, etc.) like they did the Nvidia Geforce filters and block their use while the game is open. Or take an even more extreme route: make all third party communication apps ban-able and add their signatures to EAC. Of course, neither of those suggestions are even close to feasible and people would just figure out a way to bypass them (using discord via a VM, their phones, etc.).

tl;dr: If you can't beat 'em, either join 'em or move on. The answer isn't to have the devs transform the game until you feel like you're on an even playing field with everyone else.

Except that reasoning doesn´t hold, since discord is intended to be used for Hunt, whereas autoaim is explicitly forbidden.

[The Unspkqfcxble]

Originally posted by Gonna cry?:

Or... just use discord?
... Crytek to treat third party communication apps (discord, teamspeak, mumble, etc.) like they did the Nvidia Geforce filters and block their use while the game is open. ...

The use of such filters is blocked? Is there an explaination from Ctek for doing this?

[ℍ𝕚𝕔𝕜𝔻𝕖𝕒𝕕]

I can talk just fine with my teammates when I'm dead, on discord. That you willingly and knowingly choose to forgo that option doesn't mean the game needs to be changed.

[take tome as core I feed]

Originally posted by Ainess:

Originally posted by Gonna cry?:

Or... just use discord?

People using third party apps to gain an advantage will...always... have an advantage. The answer isn't to incorporate every advantage you can think of into the game.

People using autoaim have an advantage over those not using it. That doesn't mean they should make autoaim a feature.

A more logical (albeit still dumb) argument would be for Crytek to treat third party communication apps (discord, teamspeak, mumble, etc.) like they did the Nvidia Geforce filters and block their use while the game is open. Or take an even more extreme route: make all third party communication apps ban-able and add their signatures to EAC. Of course, neither of those suggestions are even close to feasible and people would just figure out a way to bypass them (using discord via a VM, their phones, etc.).

tl;dr: If you can't beat 'em, either join 'em or move on. The answer isn't to have the devs transform the game until you feel like you're on an even playing field with everyone else.

Except that reasoning doesn´t hold, since discord is intended to be used for Hunt, whereas autoaim is explicitly forbidden.

The point is that people using third party applications to gain an advantage will always have an advantage. Comparing voice comm software to cheats is an extreme comparison, I'll give you that.

Discord may have been created with the intention of being used for games (i.e. Hunt) but that doesn't mean that the Hunt devs created, or want to "balance", Hunt around the fact that some people will use Discord to gain an advantage over their in game voice chat system.

Originally posted by Toxin:

Originally posted by Gonna cry?:

Or... just use discord?

People using third party apps to gain an advantage will...always... have an advantage. The answer isn't to incorporate every advantage you can think of into the game.

People using autoaim have an advantage over those not using it. That doesn't mean they should make autoaim a feature.

A more logical (albeit still dumb) argument would be for Crytek to treat third party communication apps (discord, teamspeak, mumble, etc.) like they did the Nvidia Geforce filters and block their use while the game is open. Or take an even more extreme route: make all third party communication apps ban-able and add their signatures to EAC. Of course, neither of those suggestions are even close to feasible and people would just figure out a way to bypass them (using discord via a VM, their phones, etc.).

tl;dr: If you can't beat 'em, either join 'em or move on. The answer isn't to have the devs transform the game until you feel like you're on an even playing field with everyone else.

Autoaim example isnt the best. In most common PVP FPS games are autoaim/aimbot tools bannable.

Also "just use discord" is not really practically, it make sense when you play with friends but thats not the point at all.

Thread is more about balancing the game. Thats why i said "I know its a complex idea".
People just bypass all ingame chat and voice mechanics if they use discord, but they can still hear randoms talking and writing.

Randoms dont have these abilities. Well, yes you could invite all randoms to your friendlist, ask them to download discord and invite them in your channel. But how long will it take? I mean some maybe dont even understand english or they are mute?

Team chat is the simplest solution also usable when dead. Blocking voice chat tools wont work, most streamers play in premades, use discord and they advertise this game somehow really solid.

You assume that most randoms even want to communicate with you via voice chat. Most I play with don't, they run off and do their own thing most matches. The ones that do take the 15 seconds required to hop on discord and join a channel.

Regardless, I just don't think it's reasonable for you to expect Crytek to scrap their current voice chat system (nobody will use proximity chat if team comms exist). Additionally, I don't think you realize how bad the "talking while dead" idea is. Games like counterstrike have this and it's incredibly annoying to have your dead teammates trying to coach you while you're trying to listen and play. And if you think stopping mid fight to "just mute" my chattering teammates is reasonable, then I can't help you.

[Toxin]

Originally posted by ℍ𝕚𝕔𝕜𝔻𝕖𝕒𝕕:

I can talk just fine with my teammates when I'm dead, on discord. That you willingly and knowingly choose to forgo that option doesn't mean the game needs to be changed.

I think you dont understand the conept of balancing.

[Toxin]

Originally posted by Gonna cry?:

Originally posted by Ainess:

Except that reasoning doesn´t hold, since discord is intended to be used for Hunt, whereas autoaim is explicitly forbidden.

The point is that people using third party applications to gain an advantage will always have an advantage. Comparing voice comm software to cheats is an extreme comparison, I'll give you that.

Discord may have been created with the intention of being used for games (i.e. Hunt) but that doesn't mean that the Hunt devs created, or want to "balance", Hunt around the fact that some people will use Discord to gain an advantage over their in game voice chat system.

Originally posted by Toxin:

Autoaim example isnt the best. In most common PVP FPS games are autoaim/aimbot tools bannable.

Also "just use discord" is not really practically, it make sense when you play with friends but thats not the point at all.

Thread is more about balancing the game. Thats why i said "I know its a complex idea".
People just bypass all ingame chat and voice mechanics if they use discord, but they can still hear randoms talking and writing.

Randoms dont have these abilities. Well, yes you could invite all randoms to your friendlist, ask them to download discord and invite them in your channel. But how long will it take? I mean some maybe dont even understand english or they are mute?

Team chat is the simplest solution also usable when dead. Blocking voice chat tools wont work, most streamers play in premades, use discord and they advertise this game somehow really solid.

You assume that most randoms even want to communicate with you via voice chat. Most I play with don't, they run off and do their own thing most matches. The ones that do take the 15 seconds required to hop on discord and join a channel.

Regardless, I just don't think it's reasonable for you to expect Crytek to scrap their current voice chat system (nobody will use proximity chat if team comms exist). Additionally, I don't think you realize how bad the "talking while dead" idea is. Games like counterstrike have this and it's incredibly annoying to have your dead teammates trying to coach you while you're trying to listen and play. And if you think stopping mid fight to "just mute" my chattering teammates is reasonable, then I can't help you.

Ok lets make it more simple. Do you think Randoms vs Premades are perfectly balanced?

[take tome as core I feed]

Originally posted by Toxin:

Originally posted by Gonna cry?:

The point is that people using third party applications to gain an advantage will always have an advantage. Comparing voice comm software to cheats is an extreme comparison, I'll give you that.

Discord may have been created with the intention of being used for games (i.e. Hunt) but that doesn't mean that the Hunt devs created, or want to "balance", Hunt around the fact that some people will use Discord to gain an advantage over their in game voice chat system.


You assume that most randoms even want to communicate with you via voice chat. Most I play with don't, they run off and do their own thing most matches. The ones that do take the 15 seconds required to hop on discord and join a channel.

Regardless, I just don't think it's reasonable for you to expect Crytek to scrap their current voice chat system (nobody will use proximity chat if team comms exist). Additionally, I don't think you realize how bad the "talking while dead" idea is. Games like counterstrike have this and it's incredibly annoying to have your dead teammates trying to coach you while you're trying to listen and play. And if you think stopping mid fight to "just mute" my chattering teammates is reasonable, then I can't help you.

Ok lets make it more simple. Do you think Randoms vs Premades are perfectly balanced?

No, but your question is a non sequitur. I don't think premades and randoms are balanced, but the reason doesn't have anything to do with the state of the in game voice chat system. I think they're unbalanced by definition; in randoms you have no control over your teammates loadout, skill level, playstyle, etc., whereas with premades you can select people you know to play with.

Let me throw your question back to you: If a random trio and a premade trio are both only using the in game voice comms, do you think they are "perfectly balanced"?

I would still argue that they aren't.

Randoms can, and in my experience likely will, do any of the following:

• Be unnecessarily noisy as they move through the map
  
• Wander off to some other part of the map to do their own thing
  
• Abandon you mid fight to go extract
  
• Utilize bounty sight incorrectly (I've had teammates pick up the bounty and use all 5 seconds on one scan)
  
• Let you burn out despite them bringing choke bombs
  
• Teamkill you

While premades won't.

I could go on and on, but the point is none of the above has anything to do with in-game team comms, or lack thereof; my random teammates would likely still do the same ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ despite me verbally encouraging them to do otherwise.

So again, I would argue that the issue isn't the state of the game's chat system. If you want the same advantages that premades have, go make some friends and group up - Crytek can't do that for you.

[Sauske]

Originally posted by Gonna cry?:

Originally posted by Toxin:

Ok lets make it more simple. Do you think Randoms vs Premades are perfectly balanced?

No, but your question is a non sequitur. I don't think premades and randoms are balanced, but the reason doesn't have anything to do with the state of the in game voice chat system. I think they're unbalanced by definition; in randoms you have no control over your teammates loadout, skill level, playstyle, etc., whereas with premades you can select people you know to play with.

Let me throw your question back to you: If a random trio and a premade trio are both only using the in game voice comms, do you think they are "perfectly balanced"?

I would still argue that they aren't.

Randoms can, and in my experience likely will, do any of the following:

• Be unnecessarily noisy as they move through the map
  
• Wander off to some other part of the map to do their own thing
  
• Abandon you mid fight to go extract
  
• Utilize bounty sight incorrectly (I've had teammates pick up the bounty and use all 5 seconds on one scan)
  
• Let you burn out despite them bringing choke bombs
  
• Teamkill you

While premades won't.

I could go on and on, but the point is none of the above has anything to do with in-game team comms, or lack thereof; my random teammates would likely still do the same ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ despite me verbally encouraging them to do otherwise.

So again, I would argue that the issue isn't the state of the game's chat system. If you want the same advantages that premades have, go make some friends and group up - Crytek can't do that for you.

Well put

Also, I would like to weigh in here and say that VOIP will always have a place in Hunt, since it is a nice feature to have for having friendly banter with and/or expressing your sentiments towards "enemy" hunters. Not to mention the occasional diplomacy. People who exclusively use VOIP for trash-talking and being toxic are a bunch of virgins.

[Toxin]

Originally posted by Gonna cry?:

Originally posted by Toxin:

Ok lets make it more simple. Do you think Randoms vs Premades are perfectly balanced?

No, but your question is a non sequitur. I don't think premades and randoms are balanced, but the reason doesn't have anything to do with the state of the in game voice chat system. I think they're unbalanced by definition; in randoms you have no control over your teammates loadout, skill level, playstyle, etc., whereas with premades you can select people you know to play with.

Let me throw your question back to you: If a random trio and a premade trio are both only using the in game voice comms, do you think they are "perfectly balanced"?

I would still argue that they aren't.

Randoms can, and in my experience likely will, do any of the following:

• Be unnecessarily noisy as they move through the map
  
• Wander off to some other part of the map to do their own thing
  
• Abandon you mid fight to go extract
  
• Utilize bounty sight incorrectly (I've had teammates pick up the bounty and use all 5 seconds on one scan)
  
• Let you burn out despite them bringing choke bombs
  
• Teamkill you

While premades won't.

I could go on and on, but the point is none of the above has anything to do with in-game team comms, or lack thereof; my random teammates would likely still do the same ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ despite me verbally encouraging them to do otherwise.

So again, I would argue that the issue isn't the state of the game's chat system. If you want the same advantages that premades have, go make some friends and group up - Crytek can't do that for you.

You have to think a bit more abstract.

Is a premade vs a premade perfectly balanced, if they have the same "voice com" abilities?
My secret opinion after almost 3k h playtime: No! You know why? Its a matchmaking thing.

For example: to let only premades use T3 Weapons (Mosin, Lebel, Nitro, Crown, Dolch etc) would be similar.

With your arguments:
Let me throw your question back to you: If a random trio and a premade trio are both only using the in game ">!>"T3 Weapons"<!<", do you think they are "perfectly balanced"?

The answer is clearly: No. But its somehow catastrophic in terms of game balancing to still keep it that way. Because it decreases competitiveness of game participant by design. As a developer you dont have much control over hardware, reflexes, decisions etc. but over game design.

[Sauske]

Originally posted by Toxin:

Originally posted by Gonna cry?:

No, but your question is a non sequitur. I don't think premades and randoms are balanced, but the reason doesn't have anything to do with the state of the in game voice chat system. I think they're unbalanced by definition; in randoms you have no control over your teammates loadout, skill level, playstyle, etc., whereas with premades you can select people you know to play with.

Let me throw your question back to you: If a random trio and a premade trio are both only using the in game voice comms, do you think they are "perfectly balanced"?

I would still argue that they aren't.

Randoms can, and in my experience likely will, do any of the following:

• Be unnecessarily noisy as they move through the map
  
• Wander off to some other part of the map to do their own thing
  
• Abandon you mid fight to go extract
  
• Utilize bounty sight incorrectly (I've had teammates pick up the bounty and use all 5 seconds on one scan)
  
• Let you burn out despite them bringing choke bombs
  
• Teamkill you

While premades won't.

I could go on and on, but the point is none of the above has anything to do with in-game team comms, or lack thereof; my random teammates would likely still do the same ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ despite me verbally encouraging them to do otherwise.

So again, I would argue that the issue isn't the state of the game's chat system. If you want the same advantages that premades have, go make some friends and group up - Crytek can't do that for you.

You have to think a bit more abstract.

Is a premade vs a premade perfectly balanced, if they have the same "voice com" abilities?
My secret opinion after almost 3k h playtime: No! You know why? Its a matchmaking thing.

For example: to let only premades use T3 Weapons (Mosin, Lebel, Nitro, Crown, Dolch etc) would be similar.

With your arguments:
Let me throw your question back to you: If a random trio and a premade trio are both only using the in game ">!>"T3 Weapons"<!<", do you think they are "perfectly balanced"?

The answer is clearly: No. But its somehow catastrophic in terms of game balancing to still keep it that way. Because it decreases competitiveness of game participant by design. As a developer you dont have much control over hardware, reflexes, decisions etc. but over game design.

I feel like there is this misconception that balance = good in the gaming community´s mindset lately. That simply isn´t the case. Obviously some degree and kind of balance is sought, but trying (or, god forbid, actually succeeding) to have everything perfectly balanced only results in a gameplay that feels sterile and gets stale very quickly.

[Toxin]

Originally posted by Ainess:

Originally posted by Toxin:

You have to think a bit more abstract.

Is a premade vs a premade perfectly balanced, if they have the same "voice com" abilities?
My secret opinion after almost 3k h playtime: No! You know why? Its a matchmaking thing.

For example: to let only premades use T3 Weapons (Mosin, Lebel, Nitro, Crown, Dolch etc) would be similar.

With your arguments:
Let me throw your question back to you: If a random trio and a premade trio are both only using the in game ">!>"T3 Weapons"<!<", do you think they are "perfectly balanced"?

The answer is clearly: No. But its somehow catastrophic in terms of game balancing to still keep it that way. Because it decreases competitiveness of game participant by design. As a developer you dont have much control over hardware, reflexes, decisions etc. but over game design.

I feel like there is this misconception that balance = good in the gaming community´s mindset lately. That simply isn´t the case. Obviously some degree and kind of balance is sought, but trying (or, god forbid, actually succeeding) to have everything perfectly balanced only results in a gameplay that feels sterile and gets stale very quickly.

In my opinion thats completly wrong. If you have an unbalanced game, everyone will play with the strongest class, strongest weapon or strongest line up. Games like that have no variety and get boring quickly.

Lets say, an avtomat is like a AK-47 in CS, the only weapon with a headshots abililty and every other weapon needs 5 headshots to kill someone and has a big sway. Everyone will use an avtomat.

Or lets say you have an "all in one"- ammo type (bleed, fire, poison, explosive etc) for 100$ why should someone buy a "poison bullet" ammo type?

[take tome as core I feed]

Originally posted by Toxin:

Originally posted by Gonna cry?:

No, but your question is a non sequitur. I don't think premades and randoms are balanced, but the reason doesn't have anything to do with the state of the in game voice chat system. I think they're unbalanced by definition; in randoms you have no control over your teammates loadout, skill level, playstyle, etc., whereas with premades you can select people you know to play with.

Let me throw your question back to you: If a random trio and a premade trio are both only using the in game voice comms, do you think they are "perfectly balanced"?

I would still argue that they aren't.

Randoms can, and in my experience likely will, do any of the following:

• Be unnecessarily noisy as they move through the map
  
• Wander off to some other part of the map to do their own thing
  
• Abandon you mid fight to go extract
  
• Utilize bounty sight incorrectly (I've had teammates pick up the bounty and use all 5 seconds on one scan)
  
• Let you burn out despite them bringing choke bombs
  
• Teamkill you

While premades won't.

I could go on and on, but the point is none of the above has anything to do with in-game team comms, or lack thereof; my random teammates would likely still do the same ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ despite me verbally encouraging them to do otherwise.

So again, I would argue that the issue isn't the state of the game's chat system. If you want the same advantages that premades have, go make some friends and group up - Crytek can't do that for you.

You have to think a bit more abstract.

Is a premade vs a premade perfectly balanced, if they have the same "voice com" abilities?
My secret opinion after almost 3k h playtime: No! You know why? Its a matchmaking thing.

For example: to let only premades use T3 Weapons (Mosin, Lebel, Nitro, Crown, Dolch etc) would be similar.

With your arguments:
Let me throw your question back to you: If a random trio and a premade trio are both only using the in game ">!>"T3 Weapons"<!<", do you think they are "perfectly balanced"?

The answer is clearly: No. But its somehow catastrophic in terms of game balancing to still keep it that way. Because it decreases competitiveness of game participant by design. As a developer you dont have much control over hardware, reflexes, decisions etc. but over game design.

You say I need to think more abstractly, but this thread/your original post boiled down the imbalance of randoms vs premades to the issue of team voice chat not being a feature of the game. I gave you multiple reasons for why, even if Crytek implemented the exact thing you suggest in your OP, there will still be an imbalance between randoms and premades.

Yes, premades will typically run more "tryhard" loadouts (Mosin, dolch, slugs, etc.)
Yes, matchmaking needs to be tweaked further.

I don't disagree with either of those points and I don't see how they refute my previous post in any way. If anything, they reinforce what I said in response to your question.

Is this thread about matchmaking now or is it still about you wanting them to completely overhaul the current in game VOIP?

Originally posted by Ainess:

Well put

Also, I would like to weigh in here and say that VOIP will always have a place in Hunt, since it is a nice feature to have for having friendly banter with and/or expressing your sentiments towards "enemy" hunters. Not to mention the occasional diplomacy. People who exclusively use VOIP for trash-talking and being toxic are a bunch of virgins.

I agree. The way Crytek implemented voice chat makes sense. Sound is such a crucial aspect of the game that having voice chat be open and limited to proximity creates a sort of risk vs reward. Want to communicate verbally with your team and/or your enemy? Go ahead, but others may be listening.

Obviously there will be people that bypass the intended VOIP and use their own third party preference, and that's their choice. I personally think it's more fun rely only on the in game chat. The occasional diplomacy is really satisfying too. I've had numerous occasions where we agreed to split the bounty and go separate ways. The thrill of a potential backstabbing is what makes it so much fun.