Ammo Changes Do The Opposite Of Encourage Loadout Diversity

[Rando the Crit Clown]

They say they're making these changes to encourage loadout diversity and nerf the avtomat, but it's just discouraging loadout diversity.

Ammo pickups are now a flat rate regardless of what weapons you have and how many you have. A caldwell conversion will recover the same amount bullets that a lemat + winfield will.

Compact ammo has terrible falloff greatly encouraging you to use FMJ, but FMJ is special ammo so it's difficult to recover. This greatly encourages you to equip two FMJ compact weapons to be able to sustain ammo throughout the match. With this change FMJ will be even harder to sustain, further encouraging you to just use long ammo weapons like everyone already does since they have fine ammo economies by default.

Any long ammo build that doesn't use the sparks pistol to get more bullets (which, except for the avtomat, don't need to since their ammo economies are already fine) will be either relatively unaffected or even buffed (such as the krag). The most popular loadouts of a long ammo rifle with a CQC sidearm will be mostly unaffected, but people trying to make use of FMJ ammo to bring in smaller caliber weapons will be receiving far less ammo than they currently are.

Dual wielded pistols now have the same reserve as their single counterpart.

Akimbo weapons already suffer from so many drawbacks, and are a rather poor choice of weapon. They can't ironsight at all, greatly restricting their range and reliability. You can't go for onetap headshots with them, and can only spamfire and hope. Their greatest use was for supplementing a different weapon, such as a compact FMJ primary like the lemat carbine, and now they can't do that. The choice went from "Good sidearm & a little more ammo VS Bad sidearm & a lot more ammo" to "Good sidearm VS bad sidearm".

Even their use as a weapon is worse, since that reserve ammo nerf obviously affects the gun itself. Quickly firing off a lot of inaccurate shots drains ammo fast, and now they have less of it, further discouraging you to actually use the weapon. Both reasons someone would take akimbo weapons have either disappeared entirely or been severely nerfed.

Maybe in 2 star lobbies where no one can aim anyways this is "encouarging loadout diversity", but there's next to no reason to bring akimbo weapons anymore if you can aim.

[dave2164]

It's hard to know exactly what happens until it's tried out first, which is why it will be up on the test server soon. They did have to do something. I was saying two years ago that it's stupid that the box magically has twice as much in it because you have to long ammo guns instead of one. And even as someone that uses duel wield, the ammo system and random headshots with it were out of hand but tolerated for a long time.

[Rando the Crit Clown]

Originally posted by dave2164:

It's hard to know exactly what happens until it's tried out first, which is why it will be up on the test server soon.

People said this before solo revive, then it came out and was terrible. Then they said it before solo revive was made permanent, then it was made permanent and was terrible. This is even easier to predict than solo revive since they aren't introducing a new mechanic like the stalker beetle and they aren't tweaking an old mechanic like solo revive, they're just changing the numbers you get from ammo pickups.

In what situation could making it so that the overused long ammo weapons receive nearly identical ammo pickups that they currently do while the less commonly used FMJ compact weapons receive far less ammo and don't share ammo nearly as well do literally anything other than making the most popular choice more popular? Are people going to suddenly think that having ammo is cringe and switch to the compact FMJ options because they don't like being able to shoot their guns?

Originally posted by dave2164:

IThey did have to do something.

About the Avtomat. Yes. The only weapon which is extremely overpowered and solely balanced by a lack of ammo. A much better and easier change would have been the one the dolch got. Change it from long ammo to special long ammo, so you can't share reserves with it.

Originally posted by dave2164:

I was saying two years ago that it's stupid that the box magically has twice as much in it because you have to long ammo guns instead of one. And even as someone that uses duel wield, the ammo system and random headshots with it were out of hand but tolerated for a long time.

In the game where 12 Sherrif Hardins can use their magic voodoo vision to find the same target they've killed a thousand times before as they repeatedly revive eachother over and over again after getting shot in the head, shredded with buckshot 2 feet away, or exploded from a bundle of dynamite they sat on top of, the thing that makes no sense to you is that ammo boxes can give more ammo if you have two of the same gun.

The ammo box giving you compact and medium because of your weapon choice then running out and not letting your teammate take any long ammo makes sense. The ammo box giving you bolts and arrows because of your weapon choice then not letting your teammate take any bullets from it makes sense. The ammo box giving you a single compact bullet because you only fired one bullet then running out and not letting your teammate get any makes sense. The ammo box not being able to be used by yourself twice makes sense. The ammo box not being able to be picked up when partially used makes sense. The only part of the ammo box that doesn't make sense is when you have two of the same gun.

[Rando the Crit Clown]

Originally posted by beersnyc82:

No one ever brought ammo boxes before unless you had an avto.

Now I consider bringing an ammo box for my team.

My friend brings ammo boxes to every match, and we frequently make use of them. They've always been great for special ammo weapons, like compact FMJ. Not sure why you think changing them from "Great" to "Mandatory" is a good change.

Originally posted by beersnyc82:

I also LOVE the massive indirect nerf to all the dual wielding pistol spammers. About time dualies has some sort of negative repercussion to just "spamming" out bullets.

Your MMR is showing. Now I know why you think making things mandatory is good.

[pve]

rip avto git gud

[geordiebroon58]

new ammo system im always going to be fond of the 33% from an ammo box as that always balances out the ammo recived per gun not getting too much or too little reserve

but at the same time im glad its here as weapons like the lebel sufferd greatly because of it (even default avto was a joke because of this fact)

as for akimbo nerf i understand why they done that but it also ruins the balance of the akimbo, the entire fact of being given double reserve is the fact that the lack of accuracy and high fire rate consumed ammo depleting it quickly, without the additional ammo your going to eat away at reserve in no time and thats bad if your sharing ammo type

[geordiebroon58]

Originally posted by beersnyc82:

Originally posted by Rando the Crit Clown:

My friend brings ammo boxes to every match, and we frequently make use of them. They've always been great for special ammo weapons, like compact FMJ. Not sure why you think changing them from "Great" to "Mandatory" is a good change.

Your MMR is showing. Now I know why you think making things mandatory is good.

That's cool your friend brings ammo boxes all the time in pre-patch Hunt. My group and I don't bring ammo boxes because there's literal ammo EVERY WHERE on the map nearly. Doesn't matter if you're in a compound, crossing a path, or stopping at a supply point. Ammo pick ups galore. Why waste a slot bringing an ammo box when you aren't using the Avto if the map is full of 100+ ammo pick up spots. Ridiculous.

And yeah, my friends and I hate dualies. Every time we play free hunters we're given dualies. Every time we play against enemy free hunters, they're spamming dualies. Non stop people spamming dualies in boss lairs with FMJ Caldwell Conversion. I don't care how high MMR you are, when dualies is so prevalent in the game for years now by cosntantly being the default equipment on Free Hunters, and cheap alternatives to "up close" boss brawling, then any normal sane person is going to get sick of seeing them.

I'll say it again, THANK GOD they nerfed dualies. I have zero sympathy for any of you dualies spammers. Especially those of you who abuse these eye-rolling load out on free hunters constantly.

they are annoying but they arent worthy of deserving such a heavy nerf especially when most akimbo choices are bad (caldwell is the only real viable ones)

im a mixture of saying yea they are annoying weapons to deal with and its just a skill issue

[Rando the Crit Clown]

Originally posted by beersnyc82:

Originally posted by Rando the Crit Clown:

My friend brings ammo boxes to every match, and we frequently make use of them. They've always been great for special ammo weapons, like compact FMJ. Not sure why you think changing them from "Great" to "Mandatory" is a good change.

Your MMR is showing. Now I know why you think making things mandatory is good.

That's cool your friend brings ammo boxes all the time in pre-patch Hunt. My group and I don't bring ammo boxes because there's literal ammo EVERY WHERE on the map nearly. Doesn't matter if you're in a compound, crossing a path, or stopping at a supply point. Ammo pick ups galore. Why waste a slot bringing an ammo box when you aren't using the Avto if the map is full of 100+ ammo pick up spots. Ridiculous.

And yeah, my friends and I hate dualies. Every time we play free hunters we're given dualies. Every time we play against enemy free hunters, they're spamming dualies. Non stop people spamming dualies in boss lairs with FMJ Caldwell Conversion. I don't care how high MMR you are, when dualies is so prevalent in the game for years now by constantly being the default equipment on Free Hunters, and cheap alternatives to "up close" boss brawling, then any normal sane person is going to get sick of seeing them.

I'll say it again, THANK GOD they nerfed dualies. I have zero sympathy for any of you dualies spammers. Especially those of you who abuse these eye-rolling load out on free hunters frequently.

Special ammo boxes have a low chance of spawning in a compound, and there's probably only 1 of them when they do. Please read comments before responding to them.

Originally posted by geordiebroon58:

they are annoying but they arent worthy of deserving such a heavy nerf especially when most akimbo choices are bad (caldwell is the only real viable ones)

im a mixture of saying yea they are annoying weapons to deal with and its just a skill issue

Yeah dualies suck. They're only good for the reserve ammo they give since they can't ironsight and have huge spread. It's pretty rare to see anyone using them in 5 & 6 star lobbies, they're only a problem in the low ranks.

[geordiebroon58]

Originally posted by Rando the Crit Clown:

Originally posted by geordiebroon58:

they are annoying but they arent worthy of deserving such a heavy nerf especially when most akimbo choices are bad (caldwell is the only real viable ones)

im a mixture of saying yea they are annoying weapons to deal with and its just a skill issue

Yeah dualies suck. They're only good for the reserve ammo they give since they can't ironsight. It's pretty rare to see anyone using them in 5 & 6 star lobbies, they're only a problem in the low ranks.

iron sight or not aiming in is still viable, it lowers the acurracy a little it but the actual fact is you are still zooming in despite not using a sight, on the 1st person prospective this doesnt mean much but if you were to take it into a third person angle youd realise that by technically lowering your FOV you are narrowing the accuracy down, meaning its actually benifical to ADS and can make hittting targets at further range easier

but as you said they are a bit of a joke that just makes up for peoples bad skill its a no owonder why free hunters consitnetly have them

[EmperorC3]

Yea, need to see how it plays out but I feel like the changes will be good in the long run.

The most important thing is that it lets them balance guns through ammo. Long ammo was too good at everything for a very long time. Arguably the only weaknesses were price and ammo. Price doesn't matter for most of us, and ammo was solved by your secondary. Uppercut was the original long ammo slave but it was made much easier with sparks pistol. The primary problem was that you could use your secondary to shore up any poor ammo economy, especially with dualies. The secondary problem was the avto. Long ammo finally got the ammo nerf it needed. Ntm the system will be more intuitive for new players.

[Rando the Crit Clown]

Originally posted by geordiebroon58:

Originally posted by Rando the Crit Clown:

Yeah dualies suck. They're only good for the reserve ammo they give since they can't ironsight. It's pretty rare to see anyone using them in 5 & 6 star lobbies, they're only a problem in the low ranks.

iron sight or not aiming in is still viable, it lowers the acurracy a little it but the actual fact is you are still zooming in despite not using a sight, on the 1st person prospective this doesnt mean much but if you were to take it into a third person angle youd realise that by technically lowering your FOV you are narrowing the accuracy down, meaning its actually benifical to ADS and can make hittting targets at further range easier

but as you said they are a bit of a joke that just makes up for peoples bad skill its a no owonder why free hunters consitnetly have them

'ADS' both lowers the FoV and contracts the reticle, but it's still inaccurate & luck based. You can make them work in 5/6 star lobbies (otherwise there'd be 0 dualies users instead of them being uncommon), they're just less consistent than options without random spread.

Originally posted by EmperorC3:

Yea, need to see how it plays out but I feel like the changes will be good in the long run.

The most important thing is that it lets them balance guns through ammo. Long ammo was too good at everything for a very long time. Arguably the only weaknesses were price and ammo. Price doesn't matter for most of us, and ammo was solved by your secondary. Uppercut was the original long ammo slave but it was made much easier with sparks pistol. The primary problem was that you could use your secondary to shore up any poor ammo economy, especially with dualies. The secondary problem was the avto. Long ammo finally got the ammo nerf it needed. Ntm the system will be more intuitive for new players.

This is a relative buff to long ammo weapons. Look at the words I have written.

[EmperorC3]

Sorry mate, your words weren't making sense. How exactly is this a long ammo buff? Every long ammo gun now has the ammo pickup of the lebel.

[Rando the Crit Clown]

Originally posted by EmperorC3:

Sorry mate, your words weren't making sense. How exactly is this a long ammo buff? Every long ammo gun now has the ammo pickup of the lebel.

If everything's ammo pickup is worse except for long ammo, how is that not a relative buff? What part do you not get?

[EmperorC3]

I don't get it because its not true.

Every long ammo gun in the game, regardless of your sidearm, gets +2 from a standard resupply. Some people already didn't play lebel over other long ammo rifles because of this and now there is no escaping it. Universal nerf to everything except the lebel and niche explosive ammo builds.

Meanwhile compact and medium ammo guns have enough base ammo to compliment a spammy playstyle, on top of the changes being beneficial for most builds.

On resupply +8 is a massive buff to compact ammo. You needed to dual wield ammo slave secondaries to get +8 or above. The most you can expect right now is +5 to +7. The fact that you get +8 without any secondary, is a buff.

Medium ammo getting +5 is roughly the same or a buff, with a slight nerf to vetterli+dualies. But you do get nearly double the ammo for having a single centennial or single spitfire. It'll be roughly the same except for ammo slave dualie builds.

So long ammo got nerfed, medium ammo is about the same, and compact ammo got a significant buff. I don't see how this can be reasonably seen as "long ammo got a relative buff".

[Grief Factory Employee]

Where did they say they will make this change to the game? I have no idea where the devs post upcoming update information.

[EmperorC3]

Originally posted by † Raw_Willpower †:

Where did they say they will make this change to the game? I have no idea where the devs post upcoming update information.

They just had a dev stream on twitch and youtube. Most of their announcements are on twitter.
Here's a very quick vid on all the announced changes, including the ammo changes we're talking about. Keep in mind it doesn't cover the event, that will likely come a couple of weeks after the update.
https://youtu.be/5BHAXrCv_mY