Developer discussion: Let's talk about cheaters.

[Cry_Ic3man2k]

Hi everyone,

I wanted to take a moment to address one of the main concerns that has been appearing on these forums quite regularly over the last few weeks; the subject of “cheaters”. We know this subject is important to a lot of you, so I wanted to take some time to address several of the main things that have been mentioned by you all recently.

First things first; the in-game report function: Some of you have pointed out that there no longer is an option for “cheat/hack”, I wanted to clarify that this was not something that was intentionally removed, it is a UI bug and it will return very soon. We apologise for not addressing this specific matter sooner, but I can assure you it will return very soon. In the meantime, you can still use the option for “Exploit” and “Other” to report those you suspect of cheating. We are aware that it is not the same category, but due to the UI bug that is present, we feel this is the best work around for the in-game side of reporting until we can add the option back to the report menu. When filing your report, please put **Cheater report** in the text field as this will ensure that it is sent to the right place to be investigated correctly. I have already discussed this with the team that handles reports so they will make sure to keep an eye out for those keywords.

Your second option for reporting is through https://huntshowdown.kayako.com/, this option is available for those of you that wish to provide picture/video evidence to assist with the report. Every report that we receive through Kayako is thoroughly investigated. At times it may take a while to receive a reply, and in most cases, you will not be informed of the outcome of the report, but know that it will be given the attention necessary to determine if the report is accurate or not.

Now I want to address some of the specific questions and statements that come up:

Crytek do not care about cheaters: this is definitely not the case! We are dedicated to keeping Hunt as cheat free as possible and along with EAC, we are always looking at ways of improving our detection methods. Generally, the perception can be that not much is done because we do not publicly give details around the detection and banning process. Our reason for not being public about these details is to make it harder for cheat creators to work around the measures we have in place. We dislike cheaters just as much as all of you and we will always do our best to keep Hunt as clean as possible.

No one is ever banned for cheating, there is no report option: Also, not a true statement. We issue bans for cheating on a regular basis, for example, in the last two weeks, over 100+ bans have been issued to accounts that were found to be cheating. As I outlined above, the missing report button will be resolved as soon as possible, so hopefully that will put some of you at ease as well as providing the options you need to be sure your report is going to right place.

There are no cheaters: We wish this were true, but it is the unfortunate nature of online gaming; Cheats will always exist. Some of you are probably lucky enough not to encounter them, others not so much (and of course some that perceive many encounters to be suspicious). Denying their existent does not help anyone, and especially on a public forum, it only serves to further irritate those that feel that have encountered one. The only way we can get the right message across is if you - the members of this community - help to spread the available options for reporting.

Finally, I wanted to say that we understand that cheaters are incredibly frustrating, but know that when you send a report, we take it seriously, and will always take appropriate action when necessary. Remeber, not everything strange or suspicious is a cheat, but when in doubt - report it and we'll take it from there.

I am going to leave this sticky thread open so that you may continue to discuss this further. I would ask that you keep to the topic at hand. This means it should not be derailed with other topics, arguments, direct attacks on other members of the community or the Dev team etc. We are happy to answer questions where possible, but we would prefer to keep this as a productive and constructive discussion.

Thanks.

~Ic3man2k

[Oobaneko]

Well, most accuses in cheating is just inability to accept own defeat.

[The Void]

Hey, thank you for the information!


I have to admit, I just quitted Hunt maybe 2-3 week ago, because the game was really unplayable. Server problems, even worse matchmaking, an increase of cheaters and so on...



My main problem with the game tho: it is way to.... luck based?



I had many situations, where I could get a guarantee kill, but than strange stuff happens.

Like a guy, who doesn´t die to a Nitro bullet from 10m and a bullet from my mate or situations where people don´t die with a shot in the chest from 30m. People that kill me from 16m with two shotgun shots but my shotgun shots can´t kill someone 3m in front of me. Hitting a Mosin Nagant shot and hitting two compact shots from around 30m and he survives. Shooting a guy, that wasn´t moving, with a Deringer from 20m but the shot did connect as a body shot. Shooting the same guy 4 times with a Crossbow from 20m and he didn´t die. Shooting a guy 10m in front of me with an Avto full burst, aiming at the feet so that the rest of the bullets hit the rest of the body.... no hit at all...



And so on and so on....



With all those situations, I have to report every 5th player... because, how can I know if he is cheating or if the game is just bugged?! Is just no fun, if every PvP encounter is a "coinflip".

The shotguns are especially bad in this case.



I can understand, that cheaters are really hard to get rid of, because they are a "living threat" that can adopt and find new ways to get into the code.



But not being able to fix the basic fundamental problems?



I am just saying, that is really unhealthy for a PvP based game to have too many luck elements (like the strange matchmaking). So if two equal good players meet each other in perfect conditions, how can one win simply because the one Nitro shot did kill but the other one didn`t?



I don´t know, how well you are in contact with Cryek, but could you please address some of those problems?



We as a community wan´t to see the game grow of course. We want more "good" content with a good foundation.

But many new players leave, because they don´t get a good matchmaking and need to play against veterans (I know that Crytek already worked/works on improving new player experience, but the matchmaking is still a problem for the average player). Others leave because the matchmaking is giving them way better players than them, like im most of the time get to play against players with 2-3x better stats than mine. Wat´s left, are the veterans that scare away new players.

Others leave because of some game issues, like strange/broken hitboxes, bugged melee (the reason I quit the game...), luck elements, more game braking bugs and so on.

Many people complain about new things in the game, but no one (hopefully) will complain about fixing hitboxes or overall making the game more polished.



Thank you for your time reading this and I hope you can make a change <3

[Oobaneko]

Originally posted by Captain Percy Toplis:

Originally posted by Oobaneko:

Well, most accuses in cheating is just inability to accept own defeat.

Proving the developers point. You can't make this stuff up.

Yet, at some point kinda broke Killer place makes for it too: like kill via hand shot count as wallbang, because his head didn't saw your head. Once I got brick wall wallbang kill because of that.

[₦ | cpt.morgan]

Thanks for this thread and thanks about the information!

Its very important that crytek take the cheating problem serious.

We know that the game will never be 100% cheat-free. All games have this problem, especially ego-shooters.

But if there are regular waves of bans from time to time and reports are consistently followed, we are on the right way

[Mink]

honestly, please add a way to send valid clips of suspected cheating, and tell us something about the new boss drop even if its just clarification pleasee

[HoodooYooVoodoo]

The problem with the statement above and Crytek's response as follows:
1) Blatant cheaters are allowed to continue playing after being reported, much longer than is regarded reasonable (30 days plus). In fact one encounters the same cheaters, over and over again.
2) the hidden stats system also hides a players steam profile, thereby fostering a culture of anonymity and the potential for abuse, in that you cannot report to Steam, the cheating activity.
3) EAC seems to utterly ineffectual in stemming cheating. There is a lack of confidence in EAC and Crytek in general at this stage.
4) The communication from the Crytek team, regarding cheating and their attempts to stop it, has been pathetic.
5) When reports are submitted to Kayako, one is met with a standard "we are experiencing high volumes or report, expect delays response". This in itself indicates that you did not anticipate the amount of incoming reports, or are in fact merely incapable of dealing with said reports.
6) Misguided cheating reports due to technical issues in game performance, mostly because of matchmaking and lag abuse.

All in all, once bitten twice shy, don't expect minor mea culpas to suddenly turn opinions.

[HoodooYooVoodoo]

On a side note, if one of your moderators has a VAC ban, it creates the impression that you don't take cheating seriously. You already tarnished your reputation and your bona fides by allowing that.

[крест Доминика Торрето]

Originally posted by Le Malin:

On a side note, if one of your moderators has a VAC ban, it creates the impression that you don't cheating seriously. You already tarnished your image and your bona fides by allowing that.

The worst thing is not having a vac ban or "game ban" on the moderators' accounts.


The terrible thing is that they are proud of this presence.
public figures in the game community literally tell me: it's okay to have a ban.



Below I will write about MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE for six months


About the possibility of reporting

I (as a regular user) do not feel positive feedback when submitting reports.

Originally posted by Cry_Ic3man2k:

First things first; the in-game report function: ............

in-game reporting capabilities are severely limited.
it is just a "suspicious behavior" flag with limited text area.

an obvious cheater gets banned from 1 to 3 months.
he does not change his nickname. I meet him time after time.

it comes to the point that I remember the server and the time when I can meet hin.

Originally posted by Cry_Ic3man2k:

Your second option for reporting is through https://huntshowdown.kayako.com/, this option is available for those of you that wish to provide picture/video evidence to assist with the report.

step 1) the player writes his nickname with unreadable characters in the game (Chinese characters, emoticons, etc.).

step 2) unreadable characters are replaced with white squares.

step 3) he hides his stats in the game. (now no one in the match can get a link to his profile).

and I cannot submit it through the report at kayako_com

all that technical support has
1.my profile
2.server
3.approximate time

tech support will GUESS a suspicious person




then another case

I recorded a video and sent it to tech support.
in this video one guy talks to another in a voice chat

how to throw a grenade between a bolted door and a wall next to that door.

quote:
"move to position X and aim for a 1 pixel gap between the closed door and the wall."

and the guy does it. he succeeds. he throws a grenade through the wall.

I posted this under the bug category. I didn't blame these players. I pointed out this exploit.

later I get a response from technical support

quote from answer:
"This is working as designed, but we will forward your feedback to the developers so that they can review this again."



and now the most important thing.
it was a live stream from a twitch.
Crytek partner.
and Crytek made personalized skins for him


> This is working as designed

I cannot understand, they answered me this way because this illogical non-obvious bug was conceived in the map design or because of his personality?

I did not ask for a ban, I wrote about the exploit




I can also recall the recent incident "render bug on top-end pc configuration" with a famous player from the leader board.

the same situation.
noname would fly to the ban.

here everything is decided behind closed doors.

Originally posted by Cry_Ic3man2k:

At times it may take a while to receive a reply, and in most cases, you will not be informed of the outcome of the report, .......

in cs go or rainbow6 I receive an alert.
"according to your report, we gave a ban to dishonest players"
here I am writing reports into the void.



summarizing

cheaters are actually EXTREMELY FEW. most destructive is ignoring and indulging in this problem

1 . I have no reason to trust the community members and moderators (with vac and "game" bans)
2. I have no reason to trust the work of tech support



a message was recently added to the boot logo screen

https://pasteboard.co/JAYzxTo.jpg

Now it looks like a joke




Thanks for the expanded pinned post

[HoodooYooVoodoo]

Originally posted by Bard:

summarizing

cheaters are actually EXTREMELY FEW. most destructive is ignoring and indulging in this problem

1 . I have no reason to trust the community members and moderators (with vac and "game" bans)
2. I have no reason to trust the work of tech support



a message was recently added to the boot logo screen

https://pasteboard.co/JAYzxTo.jpg

Now it looks like a joke




Thanks for the expanded pinned post

Agreed.

[Takeshi_Kovatsch]

In Hunt i have seen four types of cheating.
Some actually in the game, some on the internet.

1. There are the Cheats that bypass EAC.

After letting the anti - cheat - programm think it is running normally the cheaters are messing around in the games code with a Freeware Tool to change Values in Code. With this method of cheating nearly everything from endless Ammo to endless Darkside Boost is possible and professional Cheat developers are creating their paycheats with it.

- > I guess that is a problem of EAC and Crytec can only help EAC investigate how to stop the bypass. And Crytec can change their values in code from patch to patch to make it these cheat coders a bit more difficult but that can lead to more possible bugs.

2. There are exploid abusers.

There are many gamebreaking bugs in Hunt like the rendering bug where walls or the whole player is not visible. There is a bug where the person is desync from server but can walkaround as a ghost. In a trio this person can walk around the server and tell the other two players where the opponents are and how they look and what gear they have. Theres even an immortality bug.

- > This is a problem that only Crytek can solve and fix those bugs and close these exploids.

3) There is legal third party Software that can give you an advantage.

Reshade does the same thing as Nividia Filters but is as far as i know not banned. So the night can be bright as day. There are Audio Programms that can let you hear foodsteps louder than normal.

- > Even if somebody use these apps for other stuff why are these programms on the whitelist of EAC and not locked if the game is running?

4) The servers are bad and there are Ping abusers.

Some People are not playing in their home region. This is leading to a high Ping. The servers and netcode optimisation seems for me not the greatest and this lead to a situation where the high ping player has advantages.

He glitches in front of you and is never where seen and can not be hit as aspected. In his view you are moving as predicted and the netcode favors the shooter.

Another thing i have noticed is that if your ping is higher and you shoot there is a higher possibility of landing a headshot so something with the server calculation seem very wrong.

The ingame ping can be used as a radar for other Players. If you see your ping rising there is an enemy near.

There are even examples of Cheaters that seem to DDos the servers to gain advantage.

- > Pinglock the servers. Optimise the netcode. Change Server provider or rent better hardware.

Side node: I deleated Hunt about 6 weeks ago because of the server and cheat problems and i am not plannnig to return. I was playing since Early Acess 0.6 and I bought three copies one for me and two for friends. Maybe i return if problems are solved but in my own opinion it does not look like you solve them quick. Change my opinion and do something Crytek.

[Haywood Jashootmee]

Originally posted by Cry_Ic3man2k:

Generally, the perception can be that not much is done because we do not publicly give details around the detection and banning process. Our reason for not being public about these details is to make it harder for cheat creators to work around the measures we have in place. ~Ic3man2k

They already have ways to "work around" your measures. EAC is great for catching the free public cheats, but apparently not for the private ones that players pay for.

[Shadow Spirit]

Ran into a hacker tonight that was clearly using ESP. Moderator over in official Discord immediately starts telling me ways it might not be a hacker. I mean seriously. No one can know for sure but the community itself undermines those who have experienced it firsthand. It's like we're ostriches with our heads in the sand. It's like if anyone mentions hackers we're attacking the game or Crytek and people jump up to defend this hacker crap by proxy.

The problem is that it will take WEEKS for anything to get done meanwhile the same clown(s) are in the queue. Once a hacker is in the rotation and they stop caring if they get caught or not ... it's really time to call it a day/night because if you end up in a match with them might as well not play.

Easy AntiCheat is Easy Garbage. Every game that uses it has known hacks in the wild. Get a real AntiCheat. Unreal obviously doesn't care about stopping hacks in any game other than Fortnight so quit Easy Anticheat and do something real about hackers.

[Shadowchild]

Originally posted by ShadowSpirit:

Ran into a hacker tonight that was clearly using ESP. Moderator over in official Discord immediately starts telling me ways it might not be a hacker. I mean seriously. No one can know for sure but the community itself undermines those who have experienced it firsthand. It's like we're ostriches with our heads in the sand. It's like if anyone mentions hackers we're attacking the game or Crytek and people jump up to defend this hacker crap by proxy.

The problem is that it will take WEEKS for anything to get done meanwhile the same clown(s) are in the queue. Once a hacker is in the rotation and they stop caring if they get caught or not ... it's really time to call it a day/night because if you end up in a match with them might as well not play.

Easy AntiCheat is Easy Garbage. Every game that uses it has known hacks in the wild. Get a real AntiCheat. Unreal obviously doesn't care about stopping hacks in any game other than Fortnight so quit Easy Anticheat and do something real about hackers.

Most deaths can be explained. thats why they tend to explain or ask first how you died because there are several ways to die in this game that makes it look like a cheat but it aint, you can use 2-3 factors to kill someone, sound, knowing the map. & Luck.

[Shadow Spirit]

It's fine I guess. This is about hackers and not condescending moderators. To be fair I dished out a fair bit of salt in a clap back. It just sucks that the default argument / stance is .. "you're wrong." It feels very much like victim shaming. Dude was obviously using ESP but I am the one that should "git gud." The entire thing felt like an echo chamber of jabronies.

The fact that we have to clip videos and email them in is ludicrous. The game / system should be managing this.

[Shadowchild]

Originally posted by Le Malin:

On a side note, if one of your moderators has a VAC ban, it creates the impression that you don't take cheating seriously. You already tarnished your reputation and your bona fides by allowing that.

So what? hes not cheating in this game and he streams his gameplay & makes videos? are u jelous?