Trial Balance Issues

[SLDFMechwarrior]

Trials are pretty badly balanced and they need a massive overhaul. In most cases, trials as they are, are not tests of skill and determination. They are purely RNG grind fests designed to put players in situations that cannot legitimately be won off the skill of the player alone. It's really hard to see one way or the other just exactly what is the problem, some of the trials are mostly a problem due to extremely high mob spawns, or timers that are frankly, too low for what is being asked of the player with respect to the size and layout of the compounds + the weapon loadouts and spawns.

As I currently see it there are a couple of problems with the way Trials are handled.

First: A lot of the mission objectives seem to be totally random. (Kill 8 Immolators, Kill 7 Meatheads, Kill 10 Hives, etc). The problem here is that along with this often lofty kill numbers, players are left to fend off multiple enemies, that respawn infinitely. The respawn is especially problematic because I've literally seen new mobs spawn DIRECTLY on the player character. Smaller objectives such as, No Poison Damage, No Fire Damage, No Bleeding Damage, etc become literal "Did I spawn in the right area, with the lowest amount of NPCS near me?)

Secondly: I'm seeing a lot of questionable weapon loadouts. In one recent mission at Salters Pork, the player is asked to kill 8 immolators, with a Winnie Swift, two Pax and choke bombs. However, the CBs are useless. You're wanting to trigger the Immolators to light the dogs on fire for the hard mode completion. This Trial especially is frustrating because dogs spawn constantly, every couple of seconds, so you get mobbed extremely quickly, with no real viable defensive area.

Immolators also won't chase you inside of buildings, so luring them out of the main barn literally cannot be done. Due to the nature of the random spawns of immolators, 8 will not spawn in a five minute time span.

As it sits I feel that honestly this mode is very, very poor. The game would benefit from an open map explorations PVE environment, with limited applicable rewards and more skin type rewards for players who wish to learn the compounds, the different types of monsters and weapons, trap triggers and other important information that is needed to play solo hunt, or in teams with randoms or friends.

It's really a shame because I think there could be a lot of value here, if they were actually balanced so that the player has a real chance, not a "did I roll the correct RNG this load of the level" type of issue.

[The Great Brambino]

Many of the trials concerning killing special enemies actually aren't random, there's specific places they spawn and in some cases, a specific order. I do however agree that the goals are 100% unrealistic, there's absolutely no way to finish an objective to avoid poison damage when 20 hives are walking around and are all aggroed on you at once. Trials sucks.

[minum]

I dislike trials only with dual wielding weapons. This is real pure RNG. Better to play with dogs than this this weapons. I am finished only one map Stillwater Bayou and can say what most of them is fine and even fun. All this maps is puzzles, which you should solve. You need just to find a way how to do it and most maps will be really easy.

Real problems with this mode is:
- dual wielding
- random spawn (I think it's fun, but when monsters spawns on the opposite sides of the map it just wasting of time)
- monsters can just walk way somewhere (because of it map puzzle doesn't work)

[SickRick]

I had trouble doing the Meathead trial with the Winnie Swift because of the random Meathead spawns.
That one was a real pain and pure RNG. The rest worked out kinda nice. After many restarts.

Overall i agree with you tho.

[SLDFMechwarrior]

Originally posted by SickRick:

I had trouble doing the Meathead trial with the Winnie Swift because of the random Meathead spawns.
That one was a real pain and pure RNG. The rest worked out kinda nice. After many restarts.:♥♥♥♥:

Overall i agree with you tho.

Yes, this one specifically is a problem. It took over 30 tries before I finally got a good spread on the RNG.

Just to be clear, My intent with this post is not to whine about it. It's to try and brainstorm feedback for Crytek so that hopefully we can make them more engaging and fun, while also being a challenge for players.

[Connatic]

Originally posted by The Great Brambino:

Many of the trials concerning killing special enemies actually aren't random, there's specific places they spawn and in some cases, a specific order. I do however agree that the goals are 100% unrealistic, there's absolutely no way to finish an objective to avoid poison damage when 20 hives are walking around and are all aggroed on you at once. Trials sucks.

It's just a hard puzzle. If you don't want the super hard challenge, don't go for 3 stars. I've pretty much ignore them all together.

[SLDFMechwarrior]

Originally posted by Connatic:

Originally posted by The Great Brambino:

Many of the trials concerning killing special enemies actually aren't random, there's specific places they spawn and in some cases, a specific order. I do however agree that the goals are 100% unrealistic, there's absolutely no way to finish an objective to avoid poison damage when 20 hives are walking around and are all aggroed on you at once. Trials sucks.

It's just a hard puzzle. If you don't want the super hard challenge, don't go for 3 stars. I've pretty much ignore them all together.

Well, respectfully, I disagree. Many of these trials are not Puzzels at all. Being put in a situation with 20 hives all within trigger distance is not a puzzle. That's poorly implemented and stacked against the player on purpose.

[Treehunter06]

Are you not a dynasty warrior?

[Darth_Angeal]

Originally posted by Comrade Snek:

Trials are pretty badly balanced and they need a massive overhaul. In most cases, trials as they are, are not tests of skill and determination. They are purely RNG grind fests designed to put players in situations that cannot legitimately be won off the skill of the player alone. It's really hard to see one way or the other just exactly what is the problem, some of the trials are mostly a problem due to extremely high mob spawns, or timers that are frankly, too low for what is being asked of the player with respect to the size and layout of the compounds + the weapon loadouts and spawns.

As I currently see it there are a couple of problems with the way Trials are handled.

First: A lot of the mission objectives seem to be totally random. (Kill 8 Immolators, Kill 7 Meatheads, Kill 10 Hives, etc). The problem here is that along with this often lofty kill numbers, players are left to fend off multiple enemies, that respawn infinitely. The respawn is especially problematic because I've literally seen new mobs spawn DIRECTLY on the player character. Smaller objectives such as, No Poison Damage, No Fire Damage, No Bleeding Damage, etc become literal "Did I spawn in the right area, with the lowest amount of NPCS near me?)

Secondly: I'm seeing a lot of questionable weapon loadouts. In one recent mission at Salters Pork, the player is asked to kill 8 immolators, with a Winnie Swift, two Pax and choke bombs. However, the CBs are useless. You're wanting to trigger the Immolators to light the dogs on fire for the hard mode completion. This Trial especially is frustrating because dogs spawn constantly, every couple of seconds, so you get mobbed extremely quickly, with no real viable defensive area.

Immolators also won't chase you inside of buildings, so luring them out of the main barn literally cannot be done. Due to the nature of the random spawns of immolators, 8 will not spawn in a five minute time span.

As it sits I feel that honestly this mode is very, very poor. The game would benefit from an open map explorations PVE environment, with limited applicable rewards and more skin type rewards for players who wish to learn the compounds, the different types of monsters and weapons, trap triggers and other important information that is needed to play solo hunt, or in teams with randoms or friends.

It's really a shame because I think there could be a lot of value here, if they were actually balanced so that the player has a real chance, not a "did I roll the correct RNG this load of the level" type of issue.

First of all, the run with the immolators is windy run and you just don´t know how to use everything for your own advantage to get this done easily. There is no need to use an immolator do burn the dogs outside.
Just shoot one of the laterns, which hang around everywhere, and wait behind it. It´s easy to get all dogs this way. Otherwise you could even burn yourself and run into them. This mission don´t have any condition like "you don´t have to take damage". If you´ve done that, probably within the first minute, then throw the chokebombs on 3 different places and bait immolators into them. Easy done.

The most of the trials have clear conditions and spawn locations. Zombies and Co. have always the same spots at the sniping and running missions. Only a handful of missions has random stuff and those with meatheads are probably the closest in time, if 2 or more of them don´t spawn next to barrels.

The only thing i can agree with, is that zombies spawn next to you or are completely silent ninjas. But even that is handable if you be aware of your surroundings.

Trials are completely fine for what they are and getting 3 stars should be kind of a challenge and players should use their brain, not running through the PvE like you do in BH. If you can´t get the 3 stars, then you´re doing something wrong.

But even if they´re fine for what they are, a shooting gallery where you can spawn any zombie, running targets and a boss by yourself and switching weapons like you want, would´ve done more to the game. The sniper missions are ok, but running around like a fool and levering or dual wielding everything is nonsense. Not to mention that those trials just show how buggy this game is.

[Connatic]

Originally posted by Comrade Snek:

Originally posted by Connatic:

It's just a hard puzzle. If you don't want the super hard challenge, don't go for 3 stars. I've pretty much ignore them all together.

Well, respectfully, I disagree. Many of these trials are not Puzzels at all. Being put in a situation with 20 hives all within trigger distance is not a puzzle. That's poorly implemented and stacked against the player on purpose.

Yeah, it's super hard. Being challenging doesn't equate to "poorly implemented".

[The Great Brambino]

Originally posted by Connatic:

Originally posted by The Great Brambino:

Many of the trials concerning killing special enemies actually aren't random, there's specific places they spawn and in some cases, a specific order. I do however agree that the goals are 100% unrealistic, there's absolutely no way to finish an objective to avoid poison damage when 20 hives are walking around and are all aggroed on you at once. Trials sucks.

It's just a hard puzzle. If you don't want the super hard challenge, don't go for 3 stars. I've pretty much ignore them all together.

I finished most of the challenges with 2 stars, some with 1 star, some with 3. I consider some special enemy challenges to be puzzles, as well as all the races, but many of the trials are pure asinine.

[SLDFMechwarrior]

Originally posted by Connatic:

Originally posted by Comrade Snek:

Well, respectfully, I disagree. Many of these trials are not Puzzels at all. Being put in a situation with 20 hives all within trigger distance is not a puzzle. That's poorly implemented and stacked against the player on purpose.

Yeah, it's super hard. Being challenging doesn't equate to "poorly implemented".

It isn't challenging. Spawning a player into a game with infinite dogs or hives, and telling them to kill 11 of this super difficult enemy to kill with limited resources isn't a challenge. It's just time wasting.

[Connatic]

Originally posted by Comrade Snek:

Originally posted by Connatic:

Yeah, it's super hard. Being challenging doesn't equate to "poorly implemented".

It isn't challenging. Spawning a player into a game with infinite dogs or hives, and telling them to kill 11 of this super difficult enemy to kill with limited resources isn't a challenge. It's just time wasting.

Um, it sounds exactly like a challenge. If you don't find it fun, stick to Bounty Hunts.

[SLDFMechwarrior]

Originally posted by Connatic:

Originally posted by Comrade Snek:

It isn't challenging. Spawning a player into a game with infinite dogs or hives, and telling them to kill 11 of this super difficult enemy to kill with limited resources isn't a challenge. It's just time wasting.

Um, it sounds exactly like a challenge. If you don't find it fun, stick to Bounty Hunts.

A challenge implies that skill is involved, not roll the dice D100 times and get the lucky spawn.

I want the skins, I'm not a fan of garbage in games that puts skins behind unnecessary playwalls man. If something is a challenge IE. Kill 7 meatheads with only 3 sticks of dynamite and 6 rounds from the elephant gun, that's cool. I like stuff like that.

But when it's:

Kill 7 Meatheads
Meatheads spawn in random locations that must be searched for.
Take no fire damage
Take no damage at all
There are 20 hives.
if you kill a hive a new one spawns (So in reality there are infinite hives, not 20)
You have 5 minutes.
Shots are RNG, so if not at optimal range you fail to get the kill.

That is just stacking the game against the player on purpose, not creating a challenge.

Really I think it would be more beneficial to the players to just have Hunt: but offline and solo with no hunters. Reduce the rewards so that it doesn't affect online hunt. For example, playing offline might get you gun exp, but not hunter or bloodline exp. Bounties could be used to turn in for some cool legendary skins, instead of getting you huntdollars. That sort of thing.

Games should be welcoming to players of all skill levels, that's the point of gaming. To relax and have fun. We're not professional sports ball players. This isn't life or death.

[Darth_Angeal]

Originally posted by Comrade Snek:

Games should be welcoming to players of all skill levels, that's the point of gaming. To relax and have fun. We're not professional sports ball players. This isn't life or death.

Exactly that´s why it´s a 3 star system. Not everyone is supposed to get all stars as much as not everyone is supposed to win an olympia-medal. Atleast this here has no time-model or season bs. Ppl can play it and getting better from time to time.
If you can´t get 3 stars, then you either try again, learn the circumstances and use your brain like the immolator-example i gave you, or you just head on and leave the trials where they are.

Originally posted by Comrade Snek:

A challenge implies that skill is involved, not roll the dice D100 times and get the lucky spawn.
I want the skins, I'm not a fan of garbage in games that puts skins behind unnecessary playwalls man.

The trials need skill, smart play and weapon-/map-knowledge. Those are definately no "playwalls", since you can bring every trial in 1-3 runs to 3 stars. If you need 100 runs and call it RNG, then you clearly don´t have the skill or the decisionmaking to play around the AI. Here again i can take your immolator-missplay as example: "Let the immolator burn all dogs with their RNG movement.", when you can use lanterns hanging around everywhere....

It´s up to you, if the trials take 10h or 1000h of gameplay and not to the game. If you want the skins, then do something for it and play smart. Imagine those skins were blocked behind BB. Buy with real money or play 1000x BH to get them. Trials make things 100x faster and don´t rip me off.

Originally posted by Comrade Snek:

Kill 7 Meatheads
Meatheads spawn in random locations that must be searched for.
Take no fire damage
Take no damage at all
There are 20 hives.
if you kill a hive a new one spawns (So in reality there are infinite hives, not 20)
You have 5 minutes.
Shots are RNG, so if not at optimal range you fail to get the kill.

So you press "E" to find the meatheads in their spots which repeat, like you do to find hints in the BH - mode.
Then hives disturbing you. Just kill or avoid them? Like you do in BH with any AI...
And how is it RNG, when you don´t fire your shot from an optimal distance / angle?

Trials has clear conditions and clear circumstances and all can be brought quite easily to 3 stars. It´s all about the players skill and not that much to RNG like you claim. You should better learn from them like "Oh that´s possible in this game, oh i can use this for my advantage.".
If you can´t do that, then you should stop being greedy for some useless skins and stop wasting your time there.

[Darth_Angeal]

Originally posted by Comrade Snek:

Really I think it would be more beneficial to the players to just have Hunt: but offline and solo with no hunters. Reduce the rewards so that it doesn't affect online hunt. For example, playing offline might get you gun exp, but not hunter or bloodline exp. Bounties could be used to turn in for some cool legendary skins, instead of getting you huntdollars. That sort of thing.

This would bring nothing to the game nor to the players. Running around to bully the brainless AI in this game. How long do you do that? 1 run? 2?
This is a PvP game and not a "kill a zombie" - simulator. Trials are not the best way to teach the players or let them learn on their own, but a pure PvE mode would be even more wasted time and efford.
There are a lot of games out there where PvE is actually fun. Hunt isn´t one of them. But if you think so, then you´ve never played a real PvE game or you´re really, really bad at those. Clearing an empty map a time might be cool and a free win. But already at the 2nd time with 40min PvE grind, everyone knows, it´s just nonsense and no fun. All you do is waiting for your stamina to smash zombies and running faster again.