Why do dwarf rangers, and bugmens exist?

[Dorch]

They all have identical missile stats but quarrelers have 40 more armor. I know the rangers have stalk but they get exposed and run down if they are far from the army. Seems like they are just straight worse units. Am i missing something?

[SirSanjiSlacks]

Bugmans have regen. They're also faster at moving.

[Aleera]

Rangers also have vanguard, so you can use them to sneak around.

They're better in MP then singleplayer.

Bugman Rangers are good, really good. Same stalk/vanguard as normal rangers.
But they come with regen, immune to psych. And this regen does NOT give weakness to fire. Charge defense vs large. Similiar Attack and defense stats compared to basic dwarf warrior.
Not to mention, they have better accuracy then quarrelers, 50% more accurate even. (Which is odd seeing as they're drunk)

Bugman rangers are Dwarf warriors, combined with rangers. Only with 45 less armor. They're extreemly efficient units.

[Zane87]

Origineel geplaatst door Aleera:

Rangers also have vanguard, so you can use them to sneak around.

They're better in MP then singleplayer.

Bugman Rangers are good, really good. Same stalk/vanguard as normal rangers.
But they come with regen, immune to psych. And this regen does NOT give weakness to fire. Charge defense vs large. Similiar Attack and defense stats compared to basic dwarf warrior.
Not to mention, they have better accuracy then quarrelers, 50% more accurate even. (Which is odd seeing as they're drunk)

Bugman rangers are Dwarf warriors, combined with rangers. Only with 45 less armor. They're extreemly efficient units.

This. Bugman rangers are all-around great units. Especially the Regeneration means they can take moderate damage from missile fire or weaker aoe spells without too much issues. For longer battles, Regeneration like effects really make a difference.

Plus stalk and somewhat fast speed helps a lot in situations where you need to take out certain units you can't reach otherwise, it also allows for much better flanking.

[Andrewbh2003]

usually its the other way around

rangers have stalk means they cant get counter-shot at and thanks to there range means they always tend to get the first volley off and can win ranged duels quite well also thanks to speed can serve to screen skirmishers away

there also cheaper and again stalk + vanguard "the later maybe not as important" means that there very versatile and there speed is quite good as well "by dwarf standards" so they can actually somewhat kite slower infantry like chosen

[Lady MacBeth]

Origineel geplaatst door Dorch:

They all have identical missile stats but quarrelers have 40 more armor. I know the rangers have stalk but they get exposed and run down if they are far from the army. Seems like they are just straight worse units. Am i missing something?

The real question to me has always been why aren't bugmans an ROR. They technically should be. There is only one Joseph Bugman and he only had one ranger group. Its been a nitpick of mine for a long time.

[zefyris]

Bugman have stalk, vanguard, regen, immunity to psychology, are way faster (for a dwarf) and charge defense against large.
what not to love about them.

[TheAlmightyProo]

Origineel geplaatst door Ming:

Origineel geplaatst door Dorch:

They all have identical missile stats but quarrelers have 40 more armor. I know the rangers have stalk but they get exposed and run down if they are far from the army. Seems like they are just straight worse units. Am i missing something?

The real question to me has always been why aren't bugmans an ROR. They technically should be. There is only one Joseph Bugman and he only had one ranger group. Its been a nitpick of mine for a long time.

On the other hand, Bugman did have an entire (admittedly unnaturally mainly above ground) settlement his brewery was based in, so he could conceivably have more than just 60 Dawi at his back. Probably filled the ranks with Dawi with other roles in and around his business... not just brewers but craftsmen, merchants and the like (as big beer needs barrels made, plumbing fitted and distribution etc)

Could argue that he only became a fightin', roamin' Dwarf after the loss of his lot (not unlike a Slayer) and that'd be loreful, but then again the game has mangled lore and chronology somewhat.
Then again, anything that lessens power creep of others over the Dwarfs (as also happened in TT) can only be a good thing imo.


Edit/PS: Now that I think of it... why isn't Bugman a legendary hero at least?

[Dorch]

Origineel geplaatst door Aleera:

Rangers also have vanguard, so you can use them to sneak around.

They're better in MP then singleplayer.

Bugman Rangers are good, really good. Same stalk/vanguard as normal rangers.
But they come with regen, immune to psych. And this regen does NOT give weakness to fire. Charge defense vs large. Similiar Attack and defense stats compared to basic dwarf warrior.
Not to mention, they have better accuracy then quarrelers, 50% more accurate even. (Which is odd seeing as they're drunk)

Bugman rangers are Dwarf warriors, combined with rangers. Only with 45 less armor. They're extreemly efficient units.

Where do you see accuracy?

[elkapp]

The answer is the same as the question "why skaven get so many different units with huge variety while dwarf's roster is either "hold the line" or "shoot the enemy"?", that is tabletop.

Unit that might make sense in a confined 1v1 tabletop match won't necessarily make sense in a game like Total War (end even then variety between races can get pretty high as i wrote abote). Also, as has been wrote above me, though it's true for many units, what make sense in campaign doesn't necessarily make sense in pvp. In pvp your resource are limited (both money and caps) and you need to make the best out of it, and sometimes that mean having just a couple of units all different from each other that work as a suicide shock team.

But still, on campaign they're quite useless. Maybe the great weapon variant for some strange build, because there isn't a quarreler's version, but otherwise you're better using quarellers and then switching them for thunderers in mid or mid-late campaign.

[elkapp]

Origineel geplaatst door Dorch:

Origineel geplaatst door Aleera:

Rangers also have vanguard, so you can use them to sneak around.

They're better in MP then singleplayer.

Bugman Rangers are good, really good. Same stalk/vanguard as normal rangers.
But they come with regen, immune to psych. And this regen does NOT give weakness to fire. Charge defense vs large. Similiar Attack and defense stats compared to basic dwarf warrior.
Not to mention, they have better accuracy then quarrelers, 50% more accurate even. (Which is odd seeing as they're drunk)

Bugman rangers are Dwarf warriors, combined with rangers. Only with 45 less armor. They're extreemly efficient units.

Where do you see accuracy?

Accuracy is a hidden stat, so you need to go to twwstats to see it.
https://twwstats.com/

[voronin_mike]

To OP - because they were a good joke in the original tabeltop game. :)) But here regeneration is better than it was there, so they are OK. Why they are not RoR, as mentioned above, is a far better question. But what you can do.

[Dorch]

Accuracy and regeneration seem quite good, ill test out Bugmens rangers in my next army. Normal rangers tho im not convinced are worth it.

[Sn3z]

It depends on how your actually playing dwarfs the old T1 way with tight formations, I think they are pretty pointless to use, quarellerers are superior in this kind of play-style - they are also easily skipped.. bugmans was alteast handy for regen to have somesyngery with backline weapons teams

but I going to be spearheading a new way to play dwarfs rangers will have a actual point and place within army compositions. The way things are looking these units are just plain better than quarellerers if your going for more deploying wide based on the battle map and this wide deployment looks to be performing very well.

[yojimbo1111]

I always get rangers as Belegar since you can recruit them at t1, but with other dwarfs it would only be for flavor

[lPaladinl]

Generally speaking you're better off with quarrelers and thunderers unless you're playing Belegar.

Rangers and Bugman's Rangers have some tactical advantages but unless you are making use of them, they're not cost-effective for the role of line shooters.

Especially considering that Dwarves are very slow, even the speed buffs aren't really that tempting.