AI campaign movement

[Fuinril]

Well I'm pretty upset right now and not for the first time in this campaign...

Could someone explain to me what are the AI campaign movement bonuses ? (playing in very hard - for the first and last time if it is tied to the difficulty -, do not know if it changes anything).

I am playing as VC, obviously against the empire because no matter Throt razed Altdorf, no matter Wulfric owns the northern empire coast and no matter the chaos spawned and is razing empire territory "Me focus player gniiiii" - Karl

What upset me is empire armies seems to have between 50% and 100% more movement point than me, event though I have : talent (10%), tech (10%), disciple (10%)... But I'm unable to catch a regular raiding army (without hero) as they go faster while raiding than me. They are able to travel across more than 2 regions (going from grimhold to steingart) and attack a city while I cannot even go past the first in walking mode....

Earlier in this campaign I saw an army stationned at Krugenheim attacking me near Wurtbad then going halfway to Talabheim... while I could not even reach Krugenheim in walking mode.



That's only exemples. To vent my frustration of being attacked again and again from nowhere I installed a mod allowing me to remove fog and see ennemy armies so I can confirm 100% they attacked me from impossible locations


What are the rules ? I read AI has no bonus movement but if that's the case how what I saw in this campaign is possible ?


So frustrating....

[zefyris]

AFAIK they've got no special movement buff; or at elast certainly nothing crazy like what you're describing sorry.
Maybe mods though.

[Elitewrecker PT]

No movement buffs that the player couldn't get in the same situation.

[Fuinril]

Originally posted by zefyris:

AFAIK they've got no special movement buff; or at elast certainly nothing crazy like what you're describing sorry.
Maybe mods though.

Yes and I'm here whining just because it fun.... I can NOT prove what I describe as I do not have savegames... well except for "going from grimhold to steingart" : it's my autosave and that's what caused me to ragequit if you want to check it by yourself

[Goldtooth™]

This is only possible via mods

[Tricks]

They don't have any buffs that you couldn't get, but sometimes the AI armies act weird when running away after a battle or something. Their flight will carry them far around terrain like mountains and stuff, beyond the movement range they should have left. It's just jank. But they aren't normally able to move any farther than you can.

[Fuinril]

No mod modifying movement, only camera mods.

2 screenshots from my autosave and their player comparison.

AI :

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2325349738

Player :

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2325349291


Empire Andreas Valgeir army is able to attack Dottenbach while Vlad cannot reach the location of Andreas in walking mode.



Ai :

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2325349525

Player :

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2325349040


Empire Theon van Strole is able to attack Steingart while Vald can just reach the city in walking mode...





That's far from my first campaign. I never encountered anything like this. I asked because I though it could be empire bonus or difficulty malus (first very hard campaign). Could be the last patch too.... but player and AI are definitively not playing by the same movement rules in this campaign


Edit : embedded images

[Zane87]

Originally posted by zefyris:

AFAIK they've got no special movement buff; or at elast certainly nothing crazy like what you're describing sorry.
Maybe mods though.

This is correct. Vanilla does not provide any movement bonuses to the AI.

[Jerroser]

I believe this mostly comes from the fact that the AI doesn't have the fog of war and always knows exactly where all other armies on the map are. Meaning that when using forced march they always know exactly where and how far they can move using it so quickly get to your undefended settlements and weaker armies while evading the ones that can poses a threat to them.

It's been in the game since the warhammer 1 came out, just easy to miss as its less obvious than the other bonuses they get.

[Lady MacBeth]

Originally posted by Fuinril:

snipped for space

In all your examples the AI and Vladd are crossing different types of terrain. Terrain applies different costs to movement, which determines how far you or the AI can travel. Here read up: https://totalwarwarhammer.gamepedia.com/Terrain

[Zane87]

Originally posted by Fuinril:

No mod modifying movement, only camera mods.

2 screenshots from my autosave and their player comparison.

AI :

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2325349738

Player :

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2325349291


Empire Andreas Valgeir army is able to attack Dottenbach while Vlad cannot reach the location of Andreas in walking mode.



Ai :

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2325349525

Player :

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2325349040


Empire Theon van Strole is able to attack Steingart while Vald can just reach the city in walking mode...





That's far from my first campaign. I never encountered anything like this. I asked because I though it could be empire bonus or difficulty malus (first very hard campaign). Could be the last patch too.... but player and AI are definitively not playing by the same movement rules in this campaign


Edit : embedded images

First example: This is max 5-10% additional movement bonus that they have, not more. Currently, Karl Franz' faction gives all characters 10% bonus movement, which is the same as Vlad. If you started with Isabella though, that movement bonus is lost. Vlad ofc has more Movement bonus from Skills, but that alone could negate it.

More importantly, the Empire has road buildings, giving province-wide movement bonuses to armies starting in said province. 1 or 2 of those build already explain it.

Second example:
First, Vlad is positioned a bit more in the mountains than the empire general, and mountains usually take more movement points. Second, the settlement is not controlled by you and Karak Zorn is neutral, thus it is likely it belongs to the empire and then the above road rule applies.

Also, did the empire general actually attack Steingart and not the one close to Wissensburg? (And the other one just marching to reinforce?) Still, 1 road with the above addition that he has not cross the small mountain stretch Vlad has could already suffice.

Edit: I want to underline 3 things here:
First, there are no movement bonuses for AI in the game files whatsoever. We can see that, I checked enough tables to know that there does not exist such an effect.
Second, your claim of "50-100% more movement points" than you is hyperbolic. Above examples are in line with what can be expected, given above points. There are also events that give temporary faction-wide movement bonuses and stuff like sea treasures (which AI doesn't pursue but can use "by accident" which can all inflate things temporarily, but just that. Otherwise I would actually check the tables within your mods, cause that is not vanilla.
Third, with my modest playtime I never actually experienced AI moving more than I could under similar circumstances (when I was their faction). So there's that.

[Fuinril]

Originally posted by Ming:

In all your examples the AI and Vladd are crossing different types of terrain. Terrain applies different costs to movement, which determines how far you or the AI can travel. Here read up: https://totalwarwarhammer.gamepedia.com/Terrain

How so ? I can eventually concur on the first exemple as Vlad and AI position are reverted ; but in the second exemple I place Vald in the same spot as the AI who moved and attacked the city on his turn

[Zane87]

Originally posted by Fuinril:

Originally posted by Ming:

In all your examples the AI and Vladd are crossing different types of terrain. Terrain applies different costs to movement, which determines how far you or the AI can travel. Here read up: https://totalwarwarhammer.gamepedia.com/Terrain

How so ? I can eventually concur on the first exemple as Vlad and AI position are reverted ; but in the second exemple I place Vald in the same spot as the AI who moved and attacked the city on his turn

You didn't, actually. I checked your screens again, no you placed Vlad definitely up the mountains by 2-3 "ticks". And mountain always takes more movement points (just like march or rivers).

[Fuinril]

Originally posted by Zane87:

First example: This is max 5-10% additional movement bonus that they have, not more. Currently, Karl Franz' faction gives all characters 10% bonus movement, which is the same as Vlad. If you started with Isabella though, that movement bonus is lost. Vlad ofc has more Movement bonus from Skills, but that alone could negate it.

More importantly, the Empire has road buildings, giving province-wide movement bonuses to armies starting in said province. 1 or 2 of those build already explain it.

Second example:
First, Vlad is positioned a bit more in the mountains than the empire general, and mountains usually take more movement points. Second, the settlement is not controlled by you and Karak Zorn is neutral, thus it is likely it belongs to the empire and then the above road rule applies.

Also, did the empire general actually attack Steingart and not the one close to Wissensburg? (And the other one just marching to reinforce?) Still, 1 road with the above addition that he has not cross the small mountain stretch Vlad has could already suffice.

Well road building can indeed explain that. But that's far more than 10-20% bonus as the range I show as Vlad is in forced marche mode.

For the second exemple : the general close to wissenburg got ambushed and killed by Vlad prior to the attack so he did not initiate the attck. Your other statements are correct however. So the rule I could miss is about this road building....

But VC also have one such building and I never saw it built when capturing a city... Well I guess it has to be something along these lines as I never encounter such behaviour (but tends to play as far from the empire as possible for "some reasons")

[Fuinril]

After tinkering a bit more with the savedgame and disabling the mods I use it seems it was a side issue from one of them as I am now unable to reproduce any of one of the two attacks. Andreas systematically go to Grunburg and Theon attacks fort Soll as it is fit whatever I order Vlad to do before ending the turn.

Seems like I turn this (already difficult) campaign into a nightmare due to the side effect of a mod. I feel kinda lame...