tomb kings suck? (campaign)

[pugums]

ok i have a combined 1000 hours between both games and only finally played as the tomb kings in campaign. I played them and there slow start is thematic and i have no issue, there mid game was fun and super strong but there late game is where i have issues. I dunno if im doin something wrong but i just end up having a bunch of chaf armies that cant do ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to the high tier ones all the ai are pumping out at unrealistic speeds.

I dunno if im just not getting it or if im right but any tips?

Also if this is an issue a suggested fix could be allowing the tomb kings to spend jars to improve unit caps similar to beastmen. Would help there late game when you have alot more jars laying around to improve your armies.

[A.Pot]

Learn to play the faction. You may have lots of chaff units but their job is to hold the line while other units do the damage like protecting the archers while they shoot or use hammer and anvil with cavalry, monsters or chariots.

Then capture towns and cities so you can further increase the limit of your non chaff units.

[grab these bandages]

TK trash. Free units are bite because all of them are crap. At HE or VC or WE or any other faction you can make doomstack at turn 50 and beat any 3-4 army what AI can bring to you. TK cannot do it, weak economy, weak units, weak magic. This faction should be fully reworked because in current state they are really not fun to play.

[Aleera]

The issue with TK is, they suffered from one of the patches, that nerfed growth across the board.
Said nerf was to stop players from getting endgame units and doomstack so quickly. Biggest problem with that was, the factions that abused cheesy tactics to get high tiers quickly, can still do it. (skaven for instance)
While 2 factions that really relied on their endgame unit's to be versatile and strong (TK and Dwarves) both factions already had a far slower growth then others, they got penalized further, because the growth requirement was a flatout 60%, so TK and Dwarves got nerfed even harder.

Dwarves in the last patch got help, by lowering many unit's in a tier set. TK got no such help.

TK require heroes to get more heroes, to get more constructs in midgame, but they're limited to them as well.

Really, that growth nerf was just too much for TK to be enjoyable.

All I can say as help. Don't expand to quickly as them. Let the AI buildup their provinces and take them over at a higher tier. Get your income from picking on 1 enemy nearby and sacking their cities.

[bozz5674]

I build my tomb kings around the heros and lords. All tomb princes are chariot masters and will be disbanded and recruited until they are chariot masters. All necrotects will be khemrian war sphinx carvers. All wizards will be knowledgable. Thutep will be my money making god. Some way, some how, I will get enoung labourers from the mountain areas to stack on him enough hero's stack all these -15 and -25 bonuses so that when I build those two level 4 buildings they are free to build, but when I demolish them I get 4k gold. Then i get Thutep in the corner of three big areas, and walk him around. It prevents three areas from adding to the army but it adds so much in gold.

[GalloglassCA]

Originally posted by grab these bandages:

TK trash. Free units are bite because all of them are crap. At HE or VC or WE or any other faction you can make doomstack at turn 50 and beat any 3-4 army what AI can bring to you. TK cannot do it, weak economy, weak units, weak magic. This faction should be fully reworked because in current state they are really not fun to play.

You can safely ignore that person. If you know what your doing TK can get off to strong starts rather easily.

[Rack]

Magic, heroes, and lots of armies.
TK are weak faction by design but they can still punch hard

[KOS]

Legendary lord and his level ?
Turn number ?
how many settlement ?
how many necrotechs and their level?
how many armies unlock ?

For any general tips about tombs king :
Armies go well by pair Ptra and Asaph
Do the Tahoth ritual that give an amazing artillery and increase recrutment level as soon as it is up.
I prefere to first unlock Wakhaf of the first dynasty, his +20% ambush help a lot at start.
Recrute as many lord as you can just to get canopy then later give them Usirian and the job to recrute yours armies.
Your expansion has to match the number of dynasties unlock, 1% research rate per tier in most settlement.

[pugums]

Originally posted by A.Pot:

Learn to play the faction. You may have lots of chaff units but their job is to hold the line while other units do the damage like protecting the archers while they shoot or use hammer and anvil with cavalry, monsters or chariots.

Then capture towns and cities so you can further increase the limit of your non chaff units.

thats exactly what i do but there frontline just gets crushed by factions like orks in the late game. It doesnt matter how you use em when your fighting full stacks of black orks and bigguns.

[pugums]

Originally posted by KOS:

Legendary lord and his level ?
Turn number ?
how many settlement ?
how many necrotechs and their level?
how many armies unlock ?

For any general tips about tombs king :
Armies go well by pair Ptra and Asaph
Do the Tahoth ritual that give an amazing artillery and increase recrutment level as soon as it is up.
I prefere to first unlock Wakhaf of the first dynasty, his +20% ambush help a lot at start.
Recrute as many lord as you can just to get canopy then later give them Usirian and the job to recrute yours armies.
Your expansion has to match the number of dynasties unlock, 1% research rate per tier in most settlement.

Legendary lord is Khalida at level 40

i have 60 or more settlements in a coop game

i have all the availble necrotechs and all are above level 20 or higher

i have 19 armies unlocked

The issue im having is fighting the green skins who seemingly can pump out full stacks of high tier units. I still won the campaign as i had 2 of my armies so strong not even 3 full stacks could win against one of them but there was a such a wide front and i couldnt build good enough units in the other armies.

[DaBo81]

You don't need to play defensively with TK. They can quickly put together a strong army and they should be using that to expand. 3 of the lords start with a high level construct and you can quickly bolster that with multiple heroes and a casket of souls (hellstrorm rocket battery but more accurate!).
If you try to turtle with them, their research will be too slow so they won't increase their army and hero caps that quickly. There are no building requirements to get more heroes and caskets so you can use these to win battles until you you've got the buildings for constructs. The necrotects allow you to get multiple constructs from one building so this allows for a big power spike.
As for magic lores, yeah it's limited but death magic and light magic are both good. Their unique spell lore feels underpowered but at least it has a good casting bonus so it's OK.
They're not that hard to play IMO.

[A.Pot]

Originally posted by pugums:

thats exactly what i do but there frontline just gets crushed by factions like orks in the late game. It doesnt matter how you use em when your fighting full stacks of black orks and bigguns.

Again, learn to play them. Against Black Orcs or Bigguns, use units like Tomb Scorpions, Ushabti and Chariots to hammer and anvil with Tomb Guard forming your front line. Use archer cavalry and chariots to whittle down the numbers of the enemies before having your main force engage. Use spells from the Lore of Nehekhara to keep buffing your troops and replacing losses while Necrotects can repair your constructs.

Tomb Kings have a lot of options for dealing with the enemies but it comes down to how you use them. Knowing the strengths and weaknesses of another faction and their units helps a lot as well.

[pugums]

Originally posted by A.Pot:

Originally posted by pugums:

thats exactly what i do but there frontline just gets crushed by factions like orks in the late game. It doesnt matter how you use em when your fighting full stacks of black orks and bigguns.

Again, learn to play them. Against Black Orcs or Bigguns, use units like Tomb Scorpions, Ushabti and Chariots to hammer and anvil with Tomb Guard forming your front line. Use archer cavalry and chariots to whittle down the numbers of the enemies before having your main force engage. Use spells from the Lore of Nehekhara to keep buffing your troops and replacing losses while Necrotects can repair your constructs.

Tomb Kings have a lot of options for dealing with the enemies but it comes down to how you use them. Knowing the strengths and weaknesses of another faction and their units helps a lot as well.

to clarify again, i dont have those units availble for every army because of there mechanics. Most of my armies in end game are just spearmen and some archers cause i dont have the space for enough structures.

[pugums]

Originally posted by DaBo81:

You don't need to play defensively with TK. They can quickly put together a strong army and they should be using that to expand. 3 of the lords start with a high level construct and you can quickly bolster that with multiple heroes and a casket of souls (hellstrorm rocket battery but more accurate!).
If you try to turtle with them, their research will be too slow so they won't increase their army and hero caps that quickly. There are no building requirements to get more heroes and caskets so you can use these to win battles until you you've got the buildings for constructs. The necrotects allow you to get multiple constructs from one building so this allows for a big power spike.
As for magic lores, yeah it's limited but death magic and light magic are both good. Their unique spell lore feels underpowered but at least it has a good casting bonus so it's OK.
They're not that hard to play IMO.

i played offensively and gained alot of land, that wasnt the issue. the issue is end game were most my armies still running with spears and archers which just cant deal with high tier full stacks preventing me from having strong pushes anymore unless i have 5 full stacks to deal with one enemey army.

[Xhal]

There are a lot of options and tricks to play the tomb kings.

Myself I trait farm and get all heroes with the trait that gives passive jars every turn.

I make a stack of necrotects with the skill to reduce build cost and time and travel them between provinces to build cities instantly and at low/no cost.

Tomb Kings I find are not that different from other factions, you play the first half of the game with crap units, their units are kinda crappier initially than other factions, they are similar to skaven in a sense.

But the tomb kings snowball hard, once you got doomstacks of single entity monsters, which isnt that hard and doesn't take too long : sphinxes, colossi, bone giants, you just steamroll everything without trying.

[KOS]

Originally posted by pugums:

i played offensively and gained alot of land, that wasnt the issue. the issue is end game were most my armies still running with spears and archers which just cant deal with high tier full stacks preventing me from having strong pushes anymore unless i have 5 full stacks to deal with one enemey army.

Only 4 armies can be envolved in a figth...

Anyway, all my tombs kings campaign end around my 15th army, so you should have win a long time ago (you still didn't say the turn you're at).
You said that you have 10 armies with only spears and archers, this is not normal.
I checked my last campaign and i had 15 armies (only 2 with basics units for rebellion purpuse) with only 45 settlements, so with your 60 settlements you should have enough, unless you build wall everywhere, it's the only reason why you can't recrute enough tombguard and catapults.

I think i understand your problem, you send armies by 5 stacks and most of them are only spears and archers so the autoresult is bad and the manualy battle is not good ether. So sometimes one of your good army isn't envolved because there is already 4 armies. In short your low tier armies drag you down.

Do strong invasions forces with only 4 armies and use low tier armies only for low tier settlements, rebellions .... You should at least be able to build 2 Ptra, 2 Asaph or 1 Geheb, 1 Ptra, 2 Asaph armies.