Loremasters of Hoeth get smashed by melee specialist.

[Invisible]

They look good stats wise, but everytime i send them against a another melee specialist the get smashed in no time.

They are bad warriors and not so good mages. How do you use them, if at all?

[Carog the Fat]

use their self buff for +24 MA and MD and support with mass heal

[Ardariel]

They are intended to use actively with magic, due to passives. I also advise you to use either 15% ward save trait or 30% phis resist.

[JODEGAFUN]

They become incredible tanky if you chose the right trait (see above), they get more if you lv up their meele line and (if you play Eltharion they get more MD and resist)+ if you play ore confederate Teclis he should give 10% additional ward save for them and mages with one of his skills. They are perfect for bloob up units as they are small to shot in ore cast vortex spells in the bloob.

[zefyris]

They're super tanky and have access to AoE healing magic at level 1, then access to even more tanky bonuses and even more convenient spells.
Put them inside another melee unit and have them fight from there rather than being isolated. That's the advantage of a character on foot, he doesn't need to be fighting isolated.
This will make a huge difference because he won't get stabbed in the back and enemies with splash damage will divide their damage between him and the other entities of the unit.
Once he's leveled up and equipped, and especially if you took some of the tanky 40 pt traits, he'll be able to tank most things while being isolated if he needs to; but until then, that's not a proper way to use him.

[A.Pot]

You are either using them wrong or playing on a difficulty that alters the stats because Loremasters are effective for what they do as anti infantry / armour piercing heroes while Nobles are the anti large / armor piercing heroes.

[Ardariel]

Originally posted by A.Pot:

You are either using them wrong or playing on a difficulty that alters the stats because Loremasters are effective for what they do as anti infantry / armour piercing heroes while Nobles are the anti large / armor piercing heroes.

Loremasters are as tanky on VH as are on easy. So there is no difference, unless he used them wrong in a first place.

[Kapika96]

Originally posted by Ardariel:

Originally posted by A.Pot:

You are either using them wrong or playing on a difficulty that alters the stats because Loremasters are effective for what they do as anti infantry / armour piercing heroes while Nobles are the anti large / armor piercing heroes.

Loremasters are as tanky on VH as are on easy. So there is no difference, unless he used them wrong in a first place.

Not really. The AI troops get increased hit chance and damage on hard and above, and reduced on easy.

That definitely means they wouldn't survive as long on very hard as they would on easy.

[Ardariel]

Originally posted by Kapika96:

Originally posted by Ardariel:

Loremasters are as tanky on VH as are on easy. So there is no difference, unless he used them wrong in a first place.

Not really. The AI troops get increased hit chance and damage on hard and above, and reduced on easy.

That definitely means they wouldn't survive as long on very hard as they would on easy.

QUestion is about "are they tanky". Yes, those bonuses exist. But using em on lege/vh i tell you for sure, loremasters are damn tanky. I got replay, where guardian loremaster + tyrion with sword of khaine took down 2 DE staks lead by lokhir and crone. All lvl 40. 2 units vs 2 ll with full armies.

If THAT is not tanky enough - i dont know what is then. And those bonuses and penalties does not matter that much for heroes and lords. They have way more MD MA than most of units on battlefield so hit chance difference betwenn easy and lege are insignificant for those units after all calculations. It would be around cap anyway.

[Kapika96]

Originally posted by Ardariel:

Originally posted by Kapika96:

Not really. The AI troops get increased hit chance and damage on hard and above, and reduced on easy.

That definitely means they wouldn't survive as long on very hard as they would on easy.

QUestion is about "are they tanky". Yes, those bonuses exist. But using em on lege/vh i tell you for sure, loremasters are damn tanky. I got replay, where guardian loremaster + tyrion with sword of khaine took down 2 DE staks lead by lokhir and crone. All lvl 40. 2 units vs 2 ll with full armies.

If THAT is not tanky enough - i dont know what is then. And those bonuses and penalties does not matter that much for heroes and lords. They have way more MD MA than most of units on battlefield so hit chance difference betwenn easy and lege are insignificant for those units after all calculations. It would be around cap anyway.

Except you said "there is no difference", there definitely is. Doesn't matter if they're still tanky on very hard difficulty, they're still less tanky than they would be on easy difficulty.

[Ardariel]

Originally posted by Kapika96:

Originally posted by Ardariel:

QUestion is about "are they tanky". Yes, those bonuses exist. But using em on lege/vh i tell you for sure, loremasters are damn tanky. I got replay, where guardian loremaster + tyrion with sword of khaine took down 2 DE staks lead by lokhir and crone. All lvl 40. 2 units vs 2 ll with full armies.

If THAT is not tanky enough - i dont know what is then. And those bonuses and penalties does not matter that much for heroes and lords. They have way more MD MA than most of units on battlefield so hit chance difference betwenn easy and lege are insignificant for those units after all calculations. It would be around cap anyway.

Except you said "there is no difference", there definitely is. Doesn't matter if they're still tanky on very hard difficulty, they're still less tanky than they would be on easy difficulty.

Well, i meant "there is no practical difference" as in "common sense" meaning. There is no difference how you use it on easy or on lege. THey are doing same, tanks the same. That is what matter.

We can run through calculations btw. I would not be surprised if there is no factual difference either. AS i said before - difference between hero unit and regular melee troops is already big. So with bonuses and penalties provided there can be no factual diffrerence and chance to hit would be same 8%.

EDIT.

Just loaded savefile with replay i mentioned. Loremaster have 77 MD. With bonus 24 MD with spell. 28% ward save. Lege difficulty. in this case unit should have AT LEAST 51 MA to have a difference between lege and easy. And that is w/o spell of loremaster. With that spell - 75 MA. THat is elite tier stat. And not all melee specialists have that either. And i dont count martial prowess in here, which boostss that stat even further.

So yeah, NO DIFFERENCE between easy and lege. They are just same in this case.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2425519241
Screenshot from replay.

For refference baseline MA for death hag is 62 and for khainite assassin is 70. Obviously you can boost them. But that is enough to see, that with all bonuses/penalties applied there is no practical and, in most cases, factual diffrence between easy and lege for purposes of loremaster tankiness.