Establishing pirate coves is broken.

[Duke Leto Atreides]

You come from the sea too attack a port. You must land your army next to it in order to attack unlike Dark Elves Black Arks which attack ports directly from the sea. If you decide to establish a pirate cove without taking the city. Your pirate army becomes land locked and must walk to the next beach in order to return to the sea. The beach can be 2 or 3 turns away. This is ridiculous.

Pirate factions should be able to attack ports from the sea.

[Ardariel]

well, they are able to do so. Kinda. If you mean to attack on same turn. THat is what you definetly can do.

Also you cna establish them via hero actins. considering moneyshower you have as VC - that is not a problem

[Garatgh Deloi]

Would be nice vampire counts got they got the ability black arks has to attack from sea directly (if its possible, might be some issues with it).

Also would be nice if Lokhir (just his army, not every army in his faction) got something along the line of vampire counts ship building (but a black ark instead).

[Ardariel]

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

Would be nice vampire counts got they got the ability black arks has to attack from sea directly (if its possible, might be some issues with it).

Also would be nice if Lokhir (just his army, not every army in his faction) got something along the line of vampire counts ship building (but a black ark instead).

Black arks cant land. Thats the difference. While VC can. So i guess that would make VC too abusive on campaing map.

Nevertheless - what is the difference if you can land and attack city on same turn anyway?

[Garatgh Deloi]

Originally posted by Ardariel:

Nevertheless - what is the difference if you can land and attack city on same turn anyway?

Well one issue is (As OP mentioned) that if you attack the city and not take it or raze it (instead sacking it or establish a vampire coast) you might then not be able to go to sea again since the settlements area of denial might cover the beach area.

A second issue is that, sometimes, you can't attack on the same turn, its not 100% consistent.

P.S That is not to say that there isn't any issues with giving them the ability to attack from sea as well. There might very well be.

[Ardariel]

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

Originally posted by Ardariel:

Nevertheless - what is the difference if you can land and attack city on same turn anyway?

Well one issue is (As OP mentioned) that if you attack the city and not take it or raze it (instead sacking it or establish a vampire coast) you might then not be able to go to sea again since the settlements area of denial might cover the beach area.

A second issue is that, sometimes, you can't attack on the same turn, its not 100% consistent.

P.S That is not to say that there isn't any issues with giving them the ability to attack from sea as well. There might very well be.

Well, pirate cove one is minor. You still can enter encamp stance. So you can defend yourself efficiently.

I mean, sure, there are a lot of things that can be done with sea and sea battle in general. BUt that is another story. In current iteration i think giving VC ability to attack from sea and retreat is quite too abusive.

[chronobomb]

The turn after you build the cove reestablishes the zone of control. Just sack it again and it removes the cities ZoC. Then you can leave the way you came. Or you could just use heroes too and don't attack everyone's cities?

[Donut Steel]

Which still means the player is having to workaround a design issue.

[Humble]

Originally posted by Garatgh Deloi:

Would be nice vampire counts got they got the ability black arks has to attack from sea directly (if its possible, might be some issues with it).

Also would be nice if Lokhir (just his army, not every army in his faction) got something along the line of vampire counts ship building (but a black ark instead).

As much I would like high elf and vampire count to had a navy stuff, it's vampire coast, not vampire count.

But yeah, vampire coast should able to had attack port from sea just like Black arks, but I think there should be option click, do you want to attack from/to land or attack from/to sea,
if attack land, then if attack from sea, it's will move to land after attack port from sea, if attack sea, then it's will return to sea after attack port or to sea after attack from land.
something like that idea and gameplay fun.
maybe there is check box if want to return sea after attack port, or land, something like that.

[lPaladinl]

It's also an issue I've had when I end a siege with multiple armies involved. If you have any armies within where the sphere of influence exists before canceling your siege, the sphere of influence re-appears when the siege ends, and traps you inside. You are forced to attempt to siege the city with that army, and then cancel it, to exit the sphere of influence.

I'm not sure it'd be an actual problem to let VC lords also be Black Arks. They already have the same Horde Mechanics, and the only difference between a VC army and a Black Ark army is the massive upkeep discount that Black Arks get, and their special abilities are not as potent.

If you kept their current mechanics the same, that they only provide abilities to the parent army in a conflict and don't share it with all conflicts with a massive sphere of influence (like the Black Arks), I don't see how it would be considered OP or broken.

[Humble]

Yup, I been taste that experience, best is move out army who are not first siege, what come first to siege should leave last, I think.

[Xana]

eh doesn't bother me. Pirate coves are an OP mechanic if used right, so making them a bit tougher to create is fine.

[Humble]

Pirate coves is not op mechanic, but reasonable powerful, yet gave other way type gameplay rather than old way take over town, ect. Only problem is cooldown is too long and not very reasonable, 15 turn! that is way too long and often a.i raze town down, and you had to start over again and spent lot of gold to do it again.

[Duke Leto Atreides]

Originally posted by Humble:

Pirate coves is not op mechanic, but reasonable powerful, yet gave other way type gameplay rather than old way take over town, ect. Only problem is cooldown is too long and not very reasonable, 15 turn! that is way too long and often a.i raze town down, and you had to start over again and spent lot of gold to do it again.

The cooldown is so slow that it makes more sense to recruit a vampire fleet captain for the sole purpose of establishing a single cove and then dismiss and recruit a new one for the next cove.

[Humble]

Well, I find lot of faster and cheaper to had your lord who had a boat build stack town and village then set up pirate cove before next move, this is no issues if you are playing as Count noctilus or Aranessa Saltspite due one island to easy defend from a.i, but on otherhand I can see it's much harder to do that as Luthor and Cylostra since don't want too much war or a.i will come to their "headquater base"