Lore: Flesh Eater Court

[Hieronymous]

The internet tells me that after the end times, Bretonnia is nearly destroyed and the remnants become delusional cannibals.

The lady, of course, abandons them, her vassals having served their purpose.

If this is true, I approve of this development in the narrative.

[RED /(Weber)\]

That's a comfort of AoS, that Bretonnia indeed got canned.
Lady just said "Peace" and ♥♥♥♥♥♥ off to wherever.

[Conflagration]

Originally posted by Hieronymous:

The internet tells me that after the end times, Bretonnia is nearly destroyed and the remnants become delusional cannibals.

The lady, of course, abandons them, her vassals having served their purpose.

If this is true, I approve of this development in the narrative.

Bretonnia (and everywhere else) was completely destroyed.

[A.Pot]

There is nothing official really in regards to the lore if they indeed became the Flesh Eaters Court or not but they did have official rules in the Warscrolls Compendium so they sort of still are a playable faction. If you are referring to the Bell of Lost Souls article as a source, there is just as much of a possibility that they are grasping at straws.

Honestly though, the best way to find out the Lore is to read whatever passes as the codex / armybook equivalent for Age of Sigmar instead of getting it from the wikis, youtubers or whatever articles people post.

[Balekai]

There really isn't a direct connection between Bretonnia and the Flesh Eater Courts from what I gather from AoS lore. Which isn't much because I know very little lol. I'm not a fan of End Times or AoS. :)

Remember that in AoS, the World-That-Was (the Warhammer world) is an age old myth and ended waaaay before the next chaos invasion that almost did the same number on The Mortal Realms made from its destruction. In between those events eons passed. The events of AoS take place eons after that.

So if anything, there were Bretonnian/Authurian like cultures that were all but wiped out along with other great civilizations that were in their golden ages. The Flesh Eater Courts are perversions of one or more of those cultures that were cut off by the chaos and forced into cannibalism for millenia or eons.

Now the only Bretonnia loose end in between the End times and AoS is the world Haven (probably never to be resolved unless a new faction comes from it that's not Authurian). The perfect world the Lady of the Lake created for her Damsels, Grail knights, some Elves and her baby daughter. It was her master plan behind Bretonnia all along. The idea being that you cannot defeat chaos, you can only delay, avoid and/or run from it (rather than Sigmar's stand and endlessly fight strategy). So she made a new race of super pure humans (Grail Knights/Damsels) to protect and preserve the hidden world and continue the legacy of the soon to be old one.

Unfortunately, the Lady messed up, revealed her plans to a disillusioned Duke while Belakhor unknowingly stalked the Lady from the shadows (major Chaos entity). Belakhor wounds her before the Duke successfully beats him back. Not long after she lost the ability to sense Haven. She feared the world was lost to chaos, but it seems from some wiki info (who knows if its accurate) that it was because of Chaos becoming so strong it blocked her abilities to do so.

Which was sort of a good thing because she gave up on the plan, gave a good amount of her power to her baby daughter (well possibly, since chaos may have got her first), and sacrificed herself to teleport all the remaining forces of order willing to fight to the the final battle. Most Bretonnian Knights and Lords didn't actually go because of the whole Lady=Lilaeth=Lied to thing. That's why the Duke confronted her in the first place. They went to go fight with Gilles in a last stand to protect Bretonnia with the remaining Dwarves of the Grey Mountains. They were all likely slaughtered by the endless waves of chaos before the world ended. She didn't abandon Bretonnia. Bretonnia abandoned her for Bretonnia. :p

The allied forces that did go to the final battle actually won against Chaos...

Only for Mannifred to purposely mess everything up and cause the End Times anyways.

Haven is probably gone too by this point. While the Mortal Realms were forming and Sigmar was flying through space on the husk of the Warhammer world, countless worlds were being consumed by Chaos over that long period. The Mortal Realms for the longest time were unknown to chaos if I remember correctly, sparing them.

[Hieronymous]

Wow.

So the lady tells Bretonnia to trust her. To pre-occupy themselves with quests. To remain in technological, cultural, and political stagnation. To look and sound like fools.

All to support the spiritual equivalent of an offshore bank account.

Maybe I dont hate Bretonnia anymore. Maybe I just pity them.

[DasaKamov]

Originally posted by Hieronymous:

Wow.

Of course, if you accept that as canon, you'll have to accept everything else in AoS as canon. :b

[Zack]

Originally posted by DasaKamov:

Originally posted by Hieronymous:

Wow.

Of course, if you accept that as canon, you'll have to accept everything else in AoS as canon. :b

It is made by the creators of the license, it is by definition canon.

[Black Hammer]

Originally posted by Zack:

Originally posted by DasaKamov:

Of course, if you accept that as canon, you'll have to accept everything else in AoS as canon. :b

It is made by the creators of the license, it is by definition canon.

Kind of. Warhammer "canon" is so bloated with contradictions at this point you basically have to pick and choose the version you like anyway.

Is the fae enchantress an elf? Yes, I have a book that states this as fact. I have another that states she is definitely not.

Can humans that aren't Magnus learn to master more than one wind of magic? No. But also yes.

Is Warhammer Fantasy a planet in the 40k universe? No, definitely not. But also it might be.

Can orcs be mutated? Yes, no, not easily.

[A.Pot]

Originally posted by Black Hammer:

Originally posted by Zack:

It is made by the creators of the license, it is by definition canon.

Kind of. Warhammer "canon" is so bloated with contradictions at this point you basically have to pick and choose the version you like anyway.

Is the fae enchantress an elf? Yes, I have a book that states this as fact. I have another that states she is definitely not.

Can humans that aren't Magnus learn to master more than one wind of magic? No. But also yes.

Is Warhammer Fantasy a planet in the 40k universe? No, definitely not. But also it might be.

Can orcs be mutated? Yes, no, not easily.

The problem with that line of thinking though is that the Warhammer fandom in general (especially 40k) is noticeably filled with "experts" who have never read either the codexes or rulebooks and that despite being the very foundation of the setting, it is wrong while every bit of expanded universe material from Black Library is sacrosanct.

[RCMidas]

Which edition of which rulebooks? The Warhammer canon was constantly changing. The fans really *do* get to pick which version of it they like best.

[Hieronymous]

And so we are left to figure it out ourselves.

Unfortunately I think the story of Bretonnia's deception and betrayal at the hands of their goddess fits perfectly.

Poor bastards.

[A.Pot]

Originally posted by Hieronymous:

And so we are left to figure it out ourselves.

Unfortunately I think the story of Bretonnia's deception and betrayal at the hands of their goddess fits perfectly.

Poor bastards.

What is also fitting is that Sigmar was shown a vision of current state of the Empire during Karl Franz's reign and the kind of people they would become. He was absolutely horrified and went into a depression.

[eRe4s3r]

This is the about the only good thing about AoS but let's be real, if we considered that heresy as canon we'd all be running into a deep depression.

[Balekai]

Originally posted by Hieronymous:

Wow.

So the lady tells Bretonnia to trust her. To pre-occupy themselves with quests. To remain in technological, cultural, and political stagnation. To look and sound like fools.

All to support the spiritual equivalent of an offshore bank account.

Maybe I dont hate Bretonnia anymore. Maybe I just pity them.

I'm a Bretonnian fan, but I do agree it was a great grimdark ending for them. I don't actually pity the Bretonnian Knights at all.

Bretonnian Knights not in the loop (questing and below) stayed true to their values, honour and made a decision for themselves based on the truth. Not to say Grail Knights aren't the embodiment of purity and virtue, but by the time they pass all the tests and drink from the Grail, they're 110% behind Lilaeth and her plans.

The Lady molded the knights or at least allowed Bretonnia nobility to be virtuous self-centred jerks (with some exceptions) and they made a decision based on that. A virtuous decision to fight to the last for something they loved most and was still true to them (Bretonnia), but jerky because they were more upset that the Lady was an "Elf" goddess moreso than her lying to them and threw a tantrum.

The only one you should feel pity for is The Lady of the Lake/Lilaeth herself. Lilaeth was always described as a fickle goddess which showed when she didn't realise how many of her people would react so badly to the truth. For being one of the most powerful gods ever, with the prophecy portfolio and being ACTUALLY ALIVE and active the whole time unlike Sigmar, she could have done a lot more for the world. Imagine the outcome of so many events if a horde of ascended/immortal Grail Knight super soldiers and damsels were actively available to the Mortal Empires rather than sitting on their hands waiting for chosen refugees? The Mortal Empires would have had Sigmar's Stormcast Eternals before AoS. By telling the truth from the beginning, she might have been able to rally her elven and human supporters together, rather than operating under the radar and letting them fight eachother half of the time. If she liked humans (especially) and elves (not so much anymore... fickle), why not help both?

Originally posted by RCMidas:

Which edition of which rulebooks? The Warhammer canon was constantly changing. The fans really *do* get to pick which version of it they like best.

I agree. When a narrative become plainly contradictory, confusing and plain bad due to bad writing, bad retcons and bad attention to detail, I lose respect for canon entirely. That or changing important swaths of lore for fan service reasons, trolly complaints or because "we think its cooler this way" reasons. I will put as much effort into respecting it as those that wrote it did. None. Which means it deserves to be either ignored or taken with stride without too much thought. I feel sort of the same way with Forgotten Realms lore after 4th edition and 5th edition lore becoming so schizophrenic. They're doing the same thing that Games Workshop did edition to edition. The best thing about AoS is that they seemed to learn their lesson: If you're not going to be consistent with lore, peoples and regions, don't be specific about it.

As for the End Times overall, it was probably the best case scenario for the Mortal Realms to be formed the way things ultimately went. By the end of the End Times there's literally nothing left but lifeless ash, ruins, the dwindled husk of a few armies of order, their new god-like leaders, and billion upon billions of Skaven. Nothing really worth fighting for. If the forces of order had won, the Scaven would have been the true victors.

[Hieronymous]

I do like how Metal the end times are.