General ideas for Kroq'gar on ME?

[Rudel]

Hey,

I just played my first game as the Lizardmen (i really had issues playing a melee heavy faction) and after a rough start on VH I finally took out the Tomb Kings to the West and Hag Graef to the North. I'm still at tier 3 and have serious money issues so my army is pretty basic, Krog's army is still beating everything but the Life Lord is a bit struggling. So far I didn't manage to beat the quest battles, Shades + Hydras vs Saurons is a really bad match.

So what do I do now? Grimgor? Skaven to the far west? All settlements have rough climate so I just wonder...

What would you do?

Cheers

[Testikles]

I think the most common way of expansion is to smash through Mors in the mountains and then team up with your fellow Lizards in the southlands. That way you can also generate trade contacts for more money. But yeah, the quest battle is really annoying, especially since there is this stupid timer running....

[Gresh]

I usually hold off Krok Gar's quest battles for quite a while before completing them. The elf fights are a lot harder than they appear on paper. They're a lot more manageable with some stegadons and heroes.

I like Rindenberg's plan. I'd avoid Grimgor as much as possible. He'll probably be preoccupied with Imrik or the Dwarfs for quite a while anyway. The rough climate of the mountains should turn back to green when you get past clan Mors.

[Rudel]

I still have Imrik as a buffer to Grimgor, so I hope he will stand his ground a bit longer. Smashing through Mors sounds like a good plan, i will do that! :)

Regarding the quest battle I guess I'll wait until I get to tier IV. It seems like a huge power spike for the Lizards.

[Basarab Laiota]

Clear out Clan Mors, hold the mountains, double back to the ocean and clean out Malus Darkblade + Clan Eshin then head west through the desert. Meet up with Tiq-tak-to, keep heading west while dumping on the Tomb Kings, Brettonians and Malagor if he's still alive. Be careful of killing off the Greybeard Prospectors because Karaz-a-Karak will hate that (and remember it for a long time). Sail west to Lustria to meet Itza, Cult of Sotek and Mazdamundi, help them with their enemies and establish your empire as a global power with several trade partners.
Once you've secured a good chunk of the south half of the map where all of your Green climate is, you can start focusing on the four long-term war-fronts: Taking the Dwarven/Greenskin owned mountains from the east, taking the Badlands and Empire down the middle, taking the donut from Eataine or pushing into the frozen wastes that Morathi usually owns from northern Lustria.

[Rudel]

Sounds like a plan. Malus is already gone (he took the capital of Kalida so he had to go early, had to use 1/2 of my army to kill him alone) and Eshin is dead. I just did the quest battles, unfortunately lost Krog'qar but everyone else made it out so I decided to keep it that way, he will be back in 4 turns anyway. My main issue is Grimgor. As usual he already owns half of the world and I definitely have no way of fighting him now. Crossing fingers that he doesn't decide to attack.

My other issue is money. I got basically none, although I only have one decent army and Krog'qar has the blue line done + 20% upkeep reduction for dinos. I still only got 4k floating income / turn. That's REALLY freaking tough after playing HE or DE who are filthy rich after turn 20ish.

Is there anyone I can trade with besides other Lizards? It's really tough being poor.

[Basarab Laiota]

Grimgor *usually* won't attack you provided you keep your Reliability rating at Very High. He's got a ton of natural enemies that will keep him busy for a long while but the only guarantee that he won't attack you is to get him to like you. I actually did a Kroq-Gar campaign where I negotiated a Military Alliance with Grimgor but that was only possible by dumping hard on many of his enemies. That was a pretty fun campaign but it wasn't exactly optimal lol
Kroq-Gar won't get many trading partners for a while. You just don't have any easy access to water and by the time you do, your great power penalty will be biting pretty hard. Bowmen of Oreon or Thorek Ironbrow (not both since they hate each other) will probably be your only trade partner while you're landlocked (you should cancel treaties with Teotiqua since they are a terrible ally and their regions are really nice). You'll need to bribe factions to set up trade agreements from my experience. Tilea, Border Princes, The Empire, Eataine, Avelorn, Yvresse and Brettonia are all pretty lucrative trading partners but they won't agree to anything without a bit of
Lizardmen just ain't rich, chief. If you're too used to High Elves and Dark Elves, welp, IDK what to tell you friend. You won't be getting massive income for about 50 turns until your provinces develop a little and your extra income bonuses start stacking. Even then it'll only be like 10k-40k income per turn depending on how many regions you own and how many armies you're fielding. There is a late-game technology at the end of your tech tree that increases income from Quarries by 200%, that'll balloon your late-game income by a good amount but it'll never compare to High Elven Entrepreneurs, the Dark Elven Slave mechanic, Yvresse's Subjugation abuse or Brettonia's everything. Lizardmen aren't broken-overpowered on the campaign map but I like it better that way.

[Rudel]

Thanks, I'll check that. Yes yes, money is quite tight. Furthermore low tier Lizard units are really bad and while every other faction can go with 19 tier 1 archers and still have a decent secondary army, Lizards cannot. Well as long as Grimgor isn't going crazy, I should be fine. He's already at -60 though and not at war with any Empire faction.

I just finished a Lothern game with roughly 20 entrepreneurs and it was just hilariously easy. Lizards are definitely more difficult.

[Gresh]

Saurus Warriors are quite tanky, just slow. You should probably be running with a stack of mostly those, blessed units, and some basic dinos if you're at tier 3 with KrokGar. Tier 3 you should be able to recruit shielded Saurus to hold a line/block missiles and solar bastilodons for artillery/monster support. Krok Gar gets huge upkeep reduction by default, and you can boost it more with the blessing perks in his skills as well as his blue line.

Are you using skinks? Because if you're looking for very strong low-tier ranged units, yes Lizardmen are bad at that.

[SpeaksTooFast]

Originally posted by Rudel:

Is there anyone I can trade with besides other Lizards? It's really tough being poor.

Dwai/Bowmen of Orion can be decent trade partners. I'd try to keep as much of the desert for myself but if the wood elves and or any Dawi want to trade feel free to hit them up. Keep an eye on diplomatic aversions as sometimes they don't like each other or Tick Tack Toe.

Eventually the bret factions on the coast may be a trade option but I would personally prefer to take their territory as it can be a decent jumping off point to hook up with lustria.

[Rudel]

I'm good with Krog's army but nothing beats a stack of tier 1 low tier Archers following your main army, beating rebels or taking early minor settlements. I use Skinks to fill up my early game and Saurons to shield my Salamanders, but they really lack fighting power and a LL like Malus Darkblade was a real match for several of them. Like with all melee units, they are inferior to any range troop.

Thanks for the tip regarding the trade partner, but Bretonnia is like 20 screens away from me.. this will take me like 50-100 turns to get there and Grimgor is in between.

[SpeaksTooFast]

Originally posted by Rudel:

Thanks for the tip regarding the trade partner, but Bretonnia is like 20 screens away from me.. this will take me like 50-100 turns to get there and Grimgor is in between.

Was referring to the coastal factions in NW Araby. If Grimgor is between you and them you have issues.

[veracsthane]

dont bother going past the dragon isles unless you have to wipe the ishin

if you want to conquer the world you have to run to the west after securing the dragon isles which is one of 2 chokes where a single army can hold that corner.

as for the campign is been a while.

[veracsthane]

Originally posted by SpeaksTooFast:

Originally posted by Rudel:

Thanks for the tip regarding the trade partner, but Bretonnia is like 20 screens away from me.. this will take me like 50-100 turns to get there and Grimgor is in between.

Was referring to the coastal factions in NW Araby. If Grimgor is between you and them you have issues.

i think he means they are hidden by the fog of war and i think he donest know about heroes being able to run over to them.

also you have to have a line to their land to trade with them. ports connected to the ocean work as such a line which is why you can trade with some factions but not others aside from them liking you. its why imrik is such a pain on lego. one of the reasons anyways.

[veracsthane]

Originally posted by Rindenberg:

I think the most common way of expansion is to smash through Mors in the mountains and then team up with your fellow Lizards in the southlands. That way you can also generate trade contacts for more money. But yeah, the quest battle is really annoying, especially since there is this stupid timer running....

to be fair you can cheese it. no one has more cheese then the lizards. well we rats do but ya.

[Rudel]

Originally posted by SpeaksTooFast:

Originally posted by Rudel:

Thanks for the tip regarding the trade partner, but Bretonnia is like 20 screens away from me.. this will take me like 50-100 turns to get there and Grimgor is in between.

Was referring to the coastal factions in NW Araby. If Grimgor is between you and them you have issues.

Ah I completely forgot about them. Thanks, that's a good idea!