advice on ranged infantry

[Mitcho]

just wondering about a few things

after both armies front lines hit whats the best use of archer and gun units? can u just shoot straight into the combat from behind or will that take out alot of your own men?

also with guns can i have my own units stand infront of them or do they need to be up higher? do they shoot into my infantrys backs?

also whats the best use for artilery after the melee starts happening? still shoot into combat from behind or stop it from firing all together?

thanks guys

[Chillum]

First two: Yes. Gunpowder units will not fire without direct line of sight (so they need to be higher). But bows can continue to fire and hit your men.

Artillary? I usually start having them focus any range blobs.

Gunpowder units can flank to keep firing as well.

And if you set up your units so theres spaces between the front line the gunpowder units will fire through the gaps.

[Mitcho]

Originally posted by Chillum:

First two: Yes. Gunpowder units will not fire without direct line of sight (so they need to be higher). But bows can continue to fire and hit your men.

Artillary? I usually start having them focus any range blobs.

Gunpowder units can flank to keep firing as well.

And if you set up your units so theres spaces between the front line the gunpowder units will fire through the gaps.

so what do u usually do with your ranged inf when ur units are in combat? just continue shooting into the fight? i guess u could aim for the opposing ranged and thats what i did before because i wasnt sure what was ideal but if they are tied up also what do i do

[Bisbas]

I just let them shoot the Guys in close combat, they don't really hit your own men. But maybe i just think so because i played alot of Empire: total war, and in that game you would just kill you own troops before Even hitting the enemy.

[Ben Argo]

Friendly fire is a terrible thing and gets dangerous at higher difficulties.

Google "a guide to gun formations in total war Warhammer: presented in glorious MS paint"

[Xajmai]

Originally posted by Ben Argo:

Friendly fire is a terrible thing and gets dangerous at higher difficulties.

Google "a guide to gun formations in total war Warhammer: presented in glorious MS paint"

Why? What's dangerous in higher difficulties? Difficulties doesn't affect missile resist afaik. Neither does it affect ranged damage sooo.

It's ok to use slings, xbows, bows shooting into the melee. Guns won't be shooting most of the time since they don't have los so it's better to flank with them or shoot at large targets. Avoid shooting artillery into melee though, high chance of losing more troops than the enemy.

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by Xajmai:

Originally posted by Ben Argo:

Friendly fire is a terrible thing and gets dangerous at higher difficulties.

Google "a guide to gun formations in total war Warhammer: presented in glorious MS paint"

Why? What's dangerous in higher difficulties? Difficulties doesn't affect missile resist afaik. Neither does it affect ranged damage sooo.

It's ok to use slings, xbows, bows shooting into the melee. Guns won't be shooting most of the time since they don't have los so it's better to flank with them or shoot at large targets. Avoid shooting artillery into melee though, high chance of losing more troops than the enemy.

I think it is due to leadership. If your units take friendly fire, they take extra damage and morale penalty. This rarely has a serious effect in lower difficulties, but at the higher ones, leadership can be an issue(for some factions).

[Xajmai]

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

Originally posted by Xajmai:

Why? What's dangerous in higher difficulties? Difficulties doesn't affect missile resist afaik. Neither does it affect ranged damage sooo.

It's ok to use slings, xbows, bows shooting into the melee. Guns won't be shooting most of the time since they don't have los so it's better to flank with them or shoot at large targets. Avoid shooting artillery into melee though, high chance of losing more troops than the enemy.

I think it is due to leadership. If your units take friendly fire, they take extra damage and morale penalty. This rarely has a serious effect in lower difficulties, but at the higher ones, leadership can be an issue(for some factions).

Perhaps. I'd still shoot my Archer into melee they have a much higher chance to hit enemy units

[Raider Deci]

I love playing with guns. But how you set-up in my experience depends a little bit who you are facing. Its good to keep some bullet-sponges up front to tank, then I usually use either a sort of roman maniple formation or tercio-inspired formation (this really depends on opposition). Artillery is necessary if heavily outranged. Square blocks, no spaghetti-lines here. In short something takes the blow/stop a charge and the gunners have free sight.

[archmag]

Originally posted by Bisbas:

I just let them shoot the Guys in close combat, they don't really hit your own men. But maybe i just think so because i played alot of Empire: total war, and in that game you would just kill you own troops before Even hitting the enemy.

Yes, they do hit your own men. Even worse, when calculating size for friendly fire friendly units are 2.2x times thicker and 1.15x times higher. So even if formation looks loose and you may want to fire through it you will hit a lot of friendly units, or just won't be able to fire at all because it will count as a wall so you won't have line of sight.

Originally posted by Ben Argo:

Google "a guide to gun formations in total war Warhammer: presented in glorious MS paint"

This is a really good guide, I agree.

Originally posted by Mitch--92--:

also whats the best use for artilery after the melee starts happening? still shoot into combat from behind or stop it from firing all together?

You can use ALT+right click to order artillery to fire at the ground instead of units. If you aim it at the back of engaged enemy units and your artillery has a good arc of fire (like mortars) you will hit them without damaging your own units. They may still get some leadership penalties because artillery hit was nearby, but it is not as bad as being damaged by it directly.

You need to experiment with different unit types and learn their arcs of fire. If it has a high trajectory (archers, mortars, etc) it can be used to fire at engaged enemy units from behind your own especially if they have some height advantage over melee units. If it has straight trajectory you will need to move them to flanks and fire at enemy from behind (gun infantry, gun cavalry) or position your melee units in such a way that they hold the enemy but turn them sidewards so that your artillery has a straight line of fire (cannons).

[Ben Argo]

Originally posted by Xajmai:

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

I think it is due to leadership. If your units take friendly fire, they take extra damage and morale penalty. This rarely has a serious effect in lower difficulties, but at the higher ones, leadership can be an issue(for some factions).

Perhaps. I'd still shoot my Archer into melee they have a much higher chance to hit enemy units

Yeah, no.

Look at that guide. Basically, you're wasting arrows and messing up leadership, even if you aren't straight up damaging units.

If you have your archers placed properly, you can fire across your formation and into the flanks of enemies engaged with your frontline. For example, if your infantry and theirs are fighting, you can have archers on the left fire into the enemy infantry on the far right because they've probably blobbed up and most of your arrows will actually hit the enemy in this situation (some friendly fire but much less thant if you just try to 'fire over their heads' or whatever).

But yeah, that visual guide helped me improve my gunpowder game a bunch.

[archmag]

Flanking with archers against shielded units is especially useful as shields only mitigate ranged damage from the front, not from sides or back.

[Dr. Uncredible]

I find that firing into melee works wonder if I can manouver the shooters into the flank or rear of the enemy so that my own soldiers aren´t blocking line of sight.

[Big Moustache]

When the melee starts i use ranged when a enemy unit breaks off, shooting them in the back kills much more and preserves ammo. Guns are good to guard and preserve your flanks, after that i move them forwards and shoot into the flank of enemies. Shooting at flying units can be done safely from behind your melee line. Shooting lords and heroes from both flanks kills them much faster too

[Ashley]

Putting gun units on a hill while putting the melee infantry on the bottom of said hill helps a bit but honestly the chances of a map like that aren't great.There's a checkerboard unit formation you can look up if i've heard right that's helpful. On high leadership factions you can corner camp so they have to group up in mass and that's great for just letting bow units do their thing because even if they're not hitting the unit you want their "misses" are hitting other units.

[Ulfgard the Unmaker]

Since everyone here keeps referencing this diagram but not posting it, see this guide:

https://imgur.com/a/NnQdt#uRh1OA0