How do people play bretonnia?

[pinkfloyd9193]

I've tried to play bretonnia campaigns multiiple times and always ends in failure and frustration. Every battle you fight with them is stressful, so much micro managing of the cav. Siege battles are crap because the infantry is so weak and not suited for cavalry.
I can go on and on, but its obvious people are able to play them successfully so what exactly is the trick? Almost feels like they're more designed for people with quick reflexes and want that adrenaline rush from everything happening so fast.

What ended my last campaign is fighting a stack of beastmen with 2 stacks of mine and I gost wasted. They had a bunch beastigors (cant remember name exactly), basically had armor piercing 2 h weapons. These guys laid waste to my cav even with cycle charging...so frustrating.

I really love the idea behind Bretonnia but just have such a hard time with them. Does anybody else have this problem or do I just suck even more than I think? :p

[Happy]

Try playing them as a co-op, I did a co-op campaign with a friend and he played as High elves, you get instant trade as both have ports, and you are a turn or 2 tops to sail across from one another to support each other in battles.

[Chrenergros]

I'm not the best at explain things, maybe because i'm not really good with english but my campaign with bretonnia is going really good so i will try to share my advices.

First, u don't really need many cavalry, but just what u can actually manage, for me i always bring 2 pegasus, 1 lord on hipogryph, 3 shock cavalry and 2 AP cavalry. The rest is always 2 arty, 4 archers and the rest halberds. I like to play different armies but now i'm giving to u one of the best and this is a army that u can do in the first turns, except for the AP cavalry. If u like magic (as me) i suggest to bring 1 or 2 mage that will boost your infantry. With magic, believe me, your infantry will easily win every engage.


So now it is time to fight, put a defensive line near the border of the map, far away of the enemy, like this:

R-R-R-R
H-H-H-H-H-H
A-A
R=Archers
H= halberds
A= arty.
Try to protect the flank and use wide fornation for halberds.

Your cavalry will go on the enemy trying to circle them and charge against enemies like archers, handgunners and such when u have a open. The AI will always try to chase your cavalry so u can abuse of this, using your superior speed and separating them. When u see that archers are alone, charge them and after disengagr when u see the enemy come. Pegasus will first go against arty if present, after will support your cavalry, attacking enemy that are not covered. Your lord on hipo will serve as tank, with an healt potion he can hold longer largw group of enemy, so lvl him with MD, armour and healt first. When u do this correctly, u can do HUGE casualites just with cavalry. When u see that the enemy is closing u or u are losing too many cavalry, it is time to retreat, waiting for the engage of the infantry that will have 100% vigour, the enemy instead will be less, like 60%.. Support them with magic if present and after the engage do another charge with cavalry, pegasus and lord behind the enemy. Their morale will break faster. This is what i usually do and it is fantastic. I usually din't get more of 100 casualites, even when i fight a 20 stack, could reach 200 when i'm against 25 or more enemies. Usually my cavalry got each 130 kills, and i'm playing on large unit size.

Hope this helps!

[pinkfloyd9193]

Originally posted by Chrenergros:

I'm not the best at explain things, maybe because i'm not really good with english but my campaign with bretonnia is going really good so i will try to share my advices.

First, u don't really need many cavalry, but just what u can actually manage, for me i always bring 2 pegasus, 1 lord on hipogryph, 3 shock cavalry and 2 AP cavalry. The rest is always 2 arty, 4 archers and the rest halberds. I like to play different armies but now i'm giving to u one of the best and this is a army that u can do in the first turns, except for the AP cavalry. If u like magic (as me) i suggest to bring 1 or 2 mage that will boost your infantry. With magic, believe me, your infantry will easily win every engage.


So now it is time to fight, put a defensive line near the border of the map, far away of the enemy, like this:

R-R-R-R
H-H-H-H-H-H
A-A
R=Archers
H= halberds
A= arty.
Try to protect the flank and use wide fornation for halberds.

Your cavalry will go on the enemy trying to circle them and charge against enemies like archers, handgunners and such when u have a open. The AI will always try to chase your cavalry so u can abuse of this, using your superior speed and separating them. When u see that archers are alone, charge them and after disengagr when u see the enemy come. Pegasus will first go against arty if present, after will support your cavalry, attacking enemy that are not covered. Your lord on hipo will serve as tank, with an healt potion he can hold longer largw group of enemy, so lvl him with MD, armour and healt first. When u do this correctly, u can do HUGE casualites just with cavalry. When u see that the enemy is closing u or u are losing too many cavalry, it is time to retreat, waiting for the engage of the infantry that will have 100% vigour, the enemy instead will be less, like 60%.. Support them with magic if present and after the engage do another charge with cavalry, pegasus and lord behind the enemy. Their morale will break faster. This is what i usually do and it is fantastic. I usually din't get more of 100 casualites, even when i fight a 20 stack, could reach 200 when i'm against 25 or more enemies. Usually my cavalry got each 130 kills, and i'm playing on large unit size.

Hope this helps!

Thank you for your input, I'll try this out and see how it goes. I been using Battle Pilgrims only as my infantry due to their high leadership. I think my main problem is I get too much cavalry and then end up not being able to manage them properly.

[Don Cool]

First of all, I never attack in a siege unless I have superior numbers, that also means if there is a full stack inside the settlement you need to draw it out. This is done by sacrificing a bit of chivalry and going into ambush mode with one stack leaving a weaker stack behind it, the AI will often charge out and get ambushed.

The early game is boring however, you are not Kroq-Gar with an army of angry and very powerful Saurus units. With very different playstyles the Bretonnians and Tomb Raiders share momentum in the campaign, both very slow starters but will catch up. If you want to be conquering straight of the bat the High Elves, Dark Elves and Lizzards are far better suited for the job, even the Empire is better.

If I had Kroq-Gars initial army after 5 rounds in Bretonnia the whole area would be mine in a very short time.

The traits just put Cavalry cost down to expensive, otherwise they are ridiculously expensive. You can use hammer and anvil if the AI allows it, but most often you will be cycle charging targets of opportunity. Your number of cavalry is also limited in the beggining. You need to get every penny´s worth out of your charges.

The Fay Enchantress is actually fun to play, I just never get anywhere with her because of the orc intrusions in the first 20 rounds, she does level up insanely quickly because of that.

[Chrenergros]

Originally posted by pinkfloyd9193:

Originally posted by Chrenergros:

I'm not the best at explain things, maybe because i'm not really good with english but my campaign with bretonnia is going really good so i will try to share my advices.

First, u don't really need many cavalry, but just what u can actually manage, for me i always bring 2 pegasus, 1 lord on hipogryph, 3 shock cavalry and 2 AP cavalry. The rest is always 2 arty, 4 archers and the rest halberds. I like to play different armies but now i'm giving to u one of the best and this is a army that u can do in the first turns, except for the AP cavalry. If u like magic (as me) i suggest to bring 1 or 2 mage that will boost your infantry. With magic, believe me, your infantry will easily win every engage.


So now it is time to fight, put a defensive line near the border of the map, far away of the enemy, like this:

R-R-R-R
H-H-H-H-H-H
A-A
R=Archers
H= halberds
A= arty.
Try to protect the flank and use wide fornation for halberds.

Your cavalry will go on the enemy trying to circle them and charge against enemies like archers, handgunners and such when u have a open. The AI will always try to chase your cavalry so u can abuse of this, using your superior speed and separating them. When u see that archers are alone, charge them and after disengagr when u see the enemy come. Pegasus will first go against arty if present, after will support your cavalry, attacking enemy that are not covered. Your lord on hipo will serve as tank, with an healt potion he can hold longer largw group of enemy, so lvl him with MD, armour and healt first. When u do this correctly, u can do HUGE casualites just with cavalry. When u see that the enemy is closing u or u are losing too many cavalry, it is time to retreat, waiting for the engage of the infantry that will have 100% vigour, the enemy instead will be less, like 60%.. Support them with magic if present and after the engage do another charge with cavalry, pegasus and lord behind the enemy. Their morale will break faster. This is what i usually do and it is fantastic. I usually din't get more of 100 casualites, even when i fight a 20 stack, could reach 200 when i'm against 25 or more enemies. Usually my cavalry got each 130 kills, and i'm playing on large unit size.

Hope this helps!

Thank you for your input, I'll try this out and see how it goes. I been using Battle Pilgrims only as my infantry due to their high leadership. I think my main problem is I get too much cavalry and then end up not being able to manage them properly.

In my army comp, u need infantry with high MD, so they can hold the line, thw damage will be made by cavalry while arty wound the enemy. Battle pilligrims are made to flank and kill, so best used in a comp that allow this.
Also put 4 points in the red line soon to improve leadership and MD of your infantry.

[Mactalon]

Their late game is one of the best, eventually you can just ditch infantry altogether if you like, full cavalry armies with Trebuchet and Magic Support.
Even sieges can't withstand the amount of flying heavy cavalry that just swoop over and crush everything while the Grail units clear out the ground. It's a bit ridiculous to do but always fun.

[Chrenergros]

Originally posted by Mactalon:

Their late game is one of the best, eventually you can just ditch infantry altogether if you like, full cavalry armies with Trebuchet and Magic Support.
Even sieges can't withstand the amount of flying heavy cavalry that just swoop over and crush everything while the Grail units clear out the ground. It's a bit ridiculous to do but always fun.

When u have grail guardians yes, u will have a good cavalry unit to hold the line for sure, so u can go full cav, but full cavalry without guardians i do not reccomend because it is micro intensive.

[Mactalon]

Originally posted by Chrenergros:

Originally posted by Mactalon:

Their late game is one of the best, eventually you can just ditch infantry altogether if you like, full cavalry armies with Trebuchet and Magic Support.
Even sieges can't withstand the amount of flying heavy cavalry that just swoop over and crush everything while the Grail units clear out the ground. It's a bit ridiculous to do but always fun.

When u have grail guardians yes, u will have a good cavalry unit to hold the line for sure, so u can go full cav, but full cavalry without guardians i do not reccomend because it is micro intensive.

That is why I said late game. :P

[Gentlest Giant]

In my current legendary Fay Enchantress campaign, I have actually never recruited any knights haha. I've clicked on the recruit several times to get some realmies and questies but always cancelled them. After confedereations I have always dismissed the knights. The only knights I have is the starting grail guardians.
Why is this?
Brettonnia can't afford them. Their economy is super weak, so I go with loads and loads of peasant bowmen and militia as they do more for less.
Also, for every lord stack with peasants, I have 3 lords without any army following as a reinforcing retinue. These guys wreck ♥♥♥♥ and well compensates any lack of knights. Now that I've united all of Brettonnia, Ihave actually sent just 4 naked lords to conquer Tilea/Border princes. Cheapest crusade ever.

[ChaosKhan]

Brettonia, contrary to the major belief of a lot of players, can be played quite differently and most important of all, successfully. Here are a few things to cosider:

1. Brettonia doesn't have a lot of diversity regarding its arty, but the trebuchet is still one of the best arty pieces in the game and is effective at taking out armored elite units which your peasants struggle against most.
2. Brettonian infantry is cosidered trash, but it's still about the same as Empire infantry overall. You can boost its strenght effectively with your lords, you can buff its morale sky high and it has all the weapon types you need to counter specific threats (spears, halberds, 2h swords).
3. You have a wide range of different cavalry which can defeat everything as long as you engage on your terms. You have the mobility to isolate units and defeat them with local numerical superiority.

Here are therefore some strategies which I used successfully on my VH/VH runs.
1. "Peasants glory!"
A very infantry heavy set up where you rely mostly on your peasants to hold the line, a couple trebuchet units to shoot elite targets into submission, a couple archers with pox arrows to debuff specific high threats, a few heroes to buff morale (and a grail relique if needed), a lord specialized in buffing infantry and a healthy dose of knights to establish dominance on flanks before relieving the breaking peasants which by that point should have inflicted enough damage to the enemies for the knight to finish off. Plays about the same as a typical Empire stack with the exception that your trebuchets do the heavy lifting and not your musket line.
2. Hammer & "Anvil" (*cough* Hammer)
H&A, thats what most people expect this faction to excell at and they are sadly wrong with this assumption. While it can certainly work, you need to understand, that in the end the peasants are there to inflict damage and not to really "hold" the line. Because even with superior morale, even specialized "defensive" peasants die far too fast. Thats why you completely dismiss all ranged troops except for 1-2 units of trebuchets, take a line of infantry (foot squires are the best) to inflict maximum shock damage and devote about half of your stack completely to cavalry units. Those wheel around the flanks as fast as possible and envelop as many targets as possible which are already hacked upon by the squires. You basically rely on "impact shock" instead of "grinding and flanking". It's a very messy and bloody strategy, you'll take massive losses every time, but you should still win against about everything you encounter.
3. Mongol style
Again, you take a few trebuchets (those are just dope and never wrong, deal with it :P), but you don't use any infantry at all, only horsemen. Your main tactic should be whittling down elite infantry with ranged fire (as always), splitting up the enemy army thanks to your mobility, force a local numerical superiority in certain places and wipe out the isolated troops one by one. Against shooty stacks with not as many "cavalry banes" like bestigors, swordmasters, you just do a frontal charge with your knights, while the lighter elements wheel around the flanks, kill the ranged troops and envelop the infantry line (or shoot in in the back...) which is held in place by your knights.

Now, lets talk about sieges. As you might have noticed, I advise to always have a couple trebuchet units in every possible stack. Not just because they hurl stones, kill a lot and are generally cool stuff, but because once you encounter walls, those things enable you to siege a settlement with any possible stack setup. For this you just position all your army as far on the side as possible, so that it can be targetted by only 1 tower at a time, max. Then you proceed to smash the said tower with stones, following by a few breaches into the walls, effectively enabling your cavalry to storm the settlements without the need to climb walls in the first place. You also send a small detachment of knights to the gate on the other side of the map, breaching it and possibly flanking the enemy troops holding off your storm on the breach. Note, that Brettonians are extremely dependent on mages, more so than any other nation, to successfully carry out a siege with as few losses as possible. It should be therefore your highest priority to lvl up mages asap to get the major aoe damage spells to help out your knights which will inevitable have difficulties dealing with spears while trying to get into the breach.

Wow, this kinda got longer than I intended it to be... whatever... :P

[Chrenergros]

Yes Bretonnia could go full infantry too but for this setup i reccomend to bring in 2 mages, 1 lord specialized on buffing units and 3-5 arty. My main setup is balanced, so i usually go:

1 hipo lord yellow line and a bit of red line focus (High MD, HP)
1 mage to help infantry
2 arty
6 halberds or graal guardian
4 archers (i usually use the normal version because usually it is enough)
2 hipo or pegasus
2 graal knight or realm knight
2 AP cavalry (forgot their english name, i'm playing in italian).

This is not an expensive army if u use pegasus, realm and halberds and have the cavalry traits, and generally it is enough to destroy a full stack without losing too much. The tactic that i use in the first post that i wrote.

[jonr2611]

Slightly off topic but If I want to Play asBretonnia and want to play Warhammer 2, to gain that access DLC content, Do I need to download Warhammer 1?

Currently I hit on Steam link to install it and never responds. Grateful for support

[Raider Deci]

Originally posted by pinkfloyd9193:

I've tried to play bretonnia campaigns multiiple times and always ends in failure and frustration. Every battle you fight with them is stressful, so much micro managing of the cav. Siege battles are crap because the infantry is so weak and not suited for cavalry.
I can go on and on, but its obvious people are able to play them successfully so what exactly is the trick?

The trick is just not throwing units forward and expect success, some thinking is required. The Cav are your killers

But I do agree that factions like Bordelaux is on the harder scale since your regions are poor, you have to depend on the AI to make the greenskin-incursions stop, your vamp-neighboer up north can spew out black knights lik crazy from the first turn while you barely have spears. The other Bret-factions have an easier time imo.
(atleast when it comes to legendary)

[NoMad]

With lots of cavaltry.

[pinkfloyd9193]

I finally get it! After taking everyone's advice I'm having a much better time with Bretonnia. My current Fey Enchantress campaign is going very well.
I never knew before about the 'Group Attack' (ctrl + g), and when used with a group of grail guardians...it's...amazing. With Fey Enchantress at their head its a most glorious sight to behold...FOR ZE LADY!