How do you protect your back-line against the "flying circus and summons combo?

[Lampros]

How do you guys protect your back-line against AI armies that are extremely heavy on flying monsters or flying monstrous infantry? As Empire, I've had to deal with a Terrorgheist/Vargheist-heavy Vampire armies, and it wasn't fun to deal with - especially when combined with summons being dropped right on my back-line.

I am almost wondering if it's not even worth it to bring artillery units? They fire like twice and then kill 15 guys and are shut down forever. My ranged do not perform well either, but at least they don't die instantly when meleed.

I have yet to face air-focused HE or DE as Empire, and I cannot imagine how I'd defend against multiple dragons and phoenixes. But then perhaps Vampire is actually harder because you get summons dropped on top of you, too?

[dt Walter Robinson]

Against flyers, arty can be more of a burden so it is reasonable to reassess it's value.

Generally speaking, keeping high mobility units in reserve to respond to threats is a good idea.

Ranged cav can be ok against small flyers, but anti-large and maybe AP melee cav is usually the better choice against bigger flyers.

[chopper [FD]]

Double down on the best counter against flyers: bring move ranged units.

[Ape-tier Buffoonery]

Even if you're fighting flying and summon heavy enemies atleast 1 artillery is nice to have to "grab" defenders and make them come to you in a battle.

Also do what I do when fighting Skaven or enemies with flyers, put a halberd unit ontop of the artillery. Ranged units should concentrate on routing flying units one by one. Yeah higher tier flyers won't take too much damage from crossbows but that's why you have hand gunners!

Steel. Faith. Gunpowder! Haha

[Lampros]

Originally posted by The Ayatollah of Rock n' Rollah:

Against flyers, arty can be more of a burden so it is reasonable to reassess it's value.

Generally speaking, keeping high mobility units in reserve to respond to threats is a good idea.

Ranged cav can be ok against small flyers, but anti-large and maybe AP melee cav is usually the better choice against bigger flyers.

The issue I am having is with mainly flying monstrous infantry and flying monsters; and they are not really bothered by small arms fire though. So I am going to load up on Demigryphs and see.

Originally posted by chopper FD:

Double down on the best counter against flyers: bring move ranged units.

This was another approach I thought of. I think I am going to try both heavy cavalry approach and moar ranged approach and see which is better. I did see that AI WE did a number on my flyers, but then as Empire I don't have the missile troops that WE do.

Originally posted by Cornchip Dictatorship:

Even if you're fighting flying and summon heavy enemies atleast 1 artillery is nice to have to "grab" defenders and make them come to you in a battle.

Also do what I do when fighting Skaven or enemies with flyers, put a halberd unit ontop of the artillery. Ranged units should concentrate on routing flying units one by one. Yeah higher tier flyers won't take too much damage from crossbows but that's why you have hand gunners!

Steel. Faith. Gunpowder! Haha

Totally agree on the need for the 1 artillery so I can play defensive and micro-less.

I never recruit halberds because of the lack of shield, but I may try that, too.

[Commisar Jon Fuklaw]

The AI also has a hard time targetting your ranged/artillery units if you keep a melee line behind them. Summons specifically are impacted by this as the AI wants to target "unprotected" ranged troops or artillery with summons or death from below. Flying things are best dealt with by using guns, high AP archers, or direct fire(!) artillery such as cannons.

[s†. Chris†opher]

As someone has mention previously just tarpit(not sure if its the right term in this case) your seige/raned units; by stacking melee units directly ontop of your ranged/seige units.

As Kara Kadrin, I just stacked my line directly ontop of thunderers. when the flying units would land in combat, just pulled my thunderers back(or side) into position.

[Chthonic Guardian]

Well, you want at least 2 flyers yourself, and have them gang up on the most powerful enemy flyer. Fortunately the AI rushes the flyers forward right away, usually outracing the army. So you focus ranged fire on another flyer, and maybe you bring it down quickly and move onto another, the others you have to wait until they land, and then rush your best anti large at them. and really anything that can do damage. Like I said the host of the enemy army still isn't there yet so you can just crash everything down into them, and then bring your 2 flyers in as well after they finished 1 or 2 of the flyers off in the air.
Heroes and wizards casting spells to slow or damage them as well, and throwing out buffs for the troops fighting with them.
You just have to make it your #1 focus and deal with them, and hopefully you get them all done before the enemy army crashes in, but sometime you don't and that's ok, you can re-group some once the flyers are all killed.

It isn't going to be clean, and you will suffer some losses, but that's war. You just have to keep it from becoming a back breaker for you.

The worst is when you have a weak wizard on a flying mount and the enemy flyers won't land until they kill him. That will throw everything off, and you will lose the wizard as well.
I like when they go for my arty and usually cheat some anti large over that direction before they arrive.

[Ashantai]

For Empire, a Light Wizard with Net is a perfect way to trap the fliers so you can shoot them down.

[CornbredCrusader]

if your playing as empire and are struggling against AI armies that have a ton of flying units, you put 2-3 units of halbs/spears behind your firing line and bring a light wizard who can cast nets. Once they dive in, you overcast nets on them, move your missile units out, halbs/spears in. Clean up what is left with ranged fire

[shadain597]

For the specific example of Empire vs Vamps, I think a relatively high number of handgunners and/or outriders would work well. Keep a unit or two of spearmen or halberdiers close, and have the gunners focus fire on the flyers. Flyers tend to be fragile and vulnerable to any missile units that can hit them, which would include gunners. Shred them and you'll have a significant numbers advantage. If it's just Varghiests and bats, then pistoliers should be effective too, since they lack any real armor.

[The Hat]

You put a line or two of anti large in with the artillery or archers.

You then focus fire on those flying monsters early on, with anti large artillery, anti large lords or just lots of archers/gunners. Big flying units, along with fast high mass units are the first things to remove from the battle.

[Iriath Zhul]

Remember if they have a bunch of flying units, then you don't need as big a front line; you can move some spears and swords to the back to make sure your squishies don't get dunked on.

[DrDaft]

Just make sure you have a unit behind arty or archers with anti large so im guessing since your on about VC units your empire, you want either halberds or spearmen really

[Sn3z]

I would say decreasing the amount of missile infantry is better VC are a aggressive faction having a nice static backline in playing into their strength, varghiests are actually pretty vulnerable to pistoliers and they really can't pursue them,so its a good idea to have at MAX two in your army just relace some crossbows or handgunners and use them to guard static artillery or other missile infantry at their worst they can be set to skirmish to draw a unit away from the fight where not aot of flyers are present.

The problem is pistoliers don't really have a transition outriders can't shoot 360 and are slower. So for Terrorgheist your just going to have to net it and shoot it down.

[Toby Larone]

just spread your ranged units out, so they can't tarpit multiple with one zombie units.
And the free ranged units can support eachother, while the attacked unit pulls back.