Purpose of Flamespyre Phoenix and Eagles?

[110]

Im on turn 81 of a v hard Alith Anar campaign. Recruited basically all the units just to try them out, and so far for me i cant find the purpose of the Flamespyre Phoenix and Eagles.

For the price they seem really ineffecive. Eagles just die, while doing minimal damage (Ive even researched most of the tech for them and have almost all the Lord buffs for them) and basically the same goes for the Flame Phoenix, although I only dont have the tech for them.

[sherlock65]

I never used it properly, because that requires some micro-managing beyond my capabilities, but I read here the flame phoenix can be VERY effective with its "flame shower" on blogs of enemies.
On eagles I agree, I always found them worthless.

[strike478]

Eagles have only one purpose. Going behind enemy line and engaging artillery or helping other of your units to crush morale. They cannot however efficiently 1v1 anything with better melee than artillery.

[Mad Poppins]

They're used to disrupt Infantry lines, take out artillery similar to Light Cavalry. Fly over the line and smack in the rear of the enemy, inflict leadership penalties. Flamespyre can do more so with their bombardment. Eagles can tie up some larger flying units for a little while. They are not meant for prolong fighting, go in do some disruption/damage, get out, charge back in.

[Wyvern]

Both Eagles and Flamespyre phoenixes are largely meant to snipe out single targets. You dive in, focus out enemy lords, cavalry or monstrous units and get out. They do terrible vs infantry or units with greater numbers, and they do badly vs anything in sustained combat. Flamespyre phoenixes have the added benefit of being a possible resurrection, low tier terror bomb and fire poop to kill infantry, but in straight up combat the two are about the same, in fact, an eagle can even outfight a phoenix barring resurrection.

[Æsir]

Originally posted by strike478:

Eagles have only one purpose. Going behind enemy line and engaging artillery or helping other of your units to crush morale. They cannot however efficiently 1v1 anything with better melee than artillery.

Agree. They are fast. Extremely fast. They destroy artillery. They can be used to kill off routed units too. They also can be used to finish off a crumbling unit.

[strike478]

Originally posted by Æsir:

Originally posted by strike478:

Eagles have only one purpose. Going behind enemy line and engaging artillery or helping other of your units to crush morale. They cannot however efficiently 1v1 anything with better melee than artillery.

Agree. They are fast. Extremely fast. They destroy artillery. They can be used to kill off routed units too. They also can be used to finish off a crumbling unit.

Yes. Just dont let take them prolonged beating from strong melee targets. They are blade meant for soft spot. Not sword and shield to longer more defensive combat.

[110]

ok thanks guys! ill give that fire poop another go then! :)

and i see now the speed of the eagles does at least help to get to enemy arty quickly..

[sherlock65]

OK, of course eagles have their uses (and all of them require a micromanaging that is not my cup of tea), and certainly I'd like to have one at hand against a Chaos army with their damned Hell cannons.
But overall, to fill one place of the 20, I'll always prefer other choices.
After all, when it's time to fight against seriously annoying artillery (like Chaos, as said) I'll hopefully have access to something better for flying&mobility (like some dragons).
In earlier phases of the game, I'll always prefer to put in one more LSG than an eagle.

But that's my choice. I do not doubt people good in using them well in battle can make them extremely effective. Only, again, not my cup of tea as I suck in micromanaging.

[strike478]

Originally posted by sherlock65:

OK, of course eagles have their uses (and all of them require a micromanaging that is not my cup of tea), and certainly I'd like to have one at hand against a Chaos army with their damned Hell cannons.
But overall, to fill one place of the 20, I'll always prefer other choices.
After all, when it's time to fight against seriously annoying artillery (like Chaos, as said) I'll hopefully have access to something better for flying&mobility (like some dragons).
In earlier phases of the game, I'll always prefer to put in one more LSG than an eagle.

But that's my choice. I do not doubt people good in using them well in battle can make them extremely effective. Only, again, not my cup of tea as I suck in micromanaging.

I use only 1 eagle unit preferably from starting units of MR.Teclis. In later game thye obviously need to be replaced.
Good luuck.

[Wyvern]

Eagles honestly arent that good vs arty, especially not at higher difficulties where AI gets BS levels of leadership. They dont kill the crew quickly, they dont rout them quickly and as high elves you have a lot of far better artillery counters, even early on. Eagle Claws are actually one of the more competitive CB arty in the game, ellyrian reavers are dirt cheap, available at tier 2 and can run roughshod over arty crews.

[PuttBlug]

How many flying units do you guys use for your late game - elite high elf army? I used to pick only 1 of the strongest dragon available and keep 1 more slot open for 1 artillery piece. Do you think it's better to have some phoenixes to snipe enemy artillery?

[Ecliptix]

Flamespyre phoenix -

1.) Go parallel to enemy frontline
2.) Begin bombing run on enemy side of line
3.) Profit.

Eagle..

Well...they're ok on walls. Kinda.

[Green]

Originally posted by Quesocito:

Im on turn 81 of a v hard Alith Anar campaign. Recruited basically all the units just to try them out, and so far for me i cant find the purpose of the Flamespyre Phoenix and Eagles.

For the price they seem really ineffecive. Eagles just die, while doing minimal damage (Ive even researched most of the tech for them and have almost all the Lord buffs for them) and basically the same goes for the Flame Phoenix, although I only dont have the tech for them.

Flamesphyre Phoenix is an excellent chaff killer. Line up your Spearmen and make your Phoenix bombard the blobbed enemy from the side = profit. It’s basically a mage that can cast a Wind spell for no mana. Also, this Phoenix isn’t super trash in melee and can stall, if not win against heavy cav (maybe not Demigryphs). It also causes terror, so if timed right, a rear charge with it can spark a mass rout.

The Eagle is your first flying unit. Granted in campaign it’s not worth to build the Eagle tech building and you’re better off waiting a bit more and grinding with Lothern Sea Guard until you gain access to Swordmasters and Moon Dragons. But it’s not the worst. I take an Eagle in MP sometimes as a cheap way to harass light missile units (Handgunners), mages and enemy artillery. The problem in campaign is that rarely do you use mid game units at all, because your first stack is mostly efficient early-game units until it gets defeated and every stack afterwards is a mix of early game ranged and late-game.

For example, I actually think White Lions are a good mid-game unit, but I almost never use them in campaign.

[Green]

Originally posted by total warrior:

How many flying units do you guys use for your late game - elite high elf army? I used to pick only 1 of the strongest dragon available and keep 1 more slot open for 1 artillery piece. Do you think it's better to have some phoenixes to snipe enemy artillery?

it’s no secret that an army of only Star Dragons and Dragon Princes with a mage of Life will defeat anything.

The question is up to you: how much you’re willing to cheese the AI and how much upkeep costs can you spare.

I like to bring balanced armies: I recruit only Star Dragons late-game but I have a personal rule of max 4 (Lord included) per army. Same goes for any unit above tier 4 (Steam tank, Dragon Princes, Phoenix Guard...)

[Green]

Originally posted by Wyvern:

Eagles honestly arent that good vs arty, especially not at higher difficulties where AI gets BS levels of leadership. They dont kill the crew quickly, they dont rout them quickly and as high elves you have a lot of far better artillery counters, even early on. Eagle Claws are actually one of the more competitive CB arty in the game, ellyrian reavers are dirt cheap, available at tier 2 and can run roughshod over arty crews.

the idea of an Eagle is to cycle charge though - regardless of damage, you automatically pull the crew off the artillery piece and both in MP and (surprisingly) in SP, it can take a while before it gets re-manned.