High Elf Heroes

[Багряный]

High Elves got unfairly few heroes in Game 2. List of missing heroes for High Elves.

Only 1 type of Nobleman. While each of the principalities has its own types of nobles.

Baith-Caradan aka Dragon Masters = "Some say they are only legend, the Elven Baith-Caradan. Once, it is said, there were many, and they flew their dragons across the great Western Ocean between the Elf lands of Ulthuan and the Old World. Now, no-one knows where they are, or even if they exist. Ancient ballads tell of then fighting the Orcs and their kin at the dawn of Human history, and some chronicles claim that a handful fought hordes of Chaos two centuries ago, but they have not been seen since. Some doubt that they were ever more than the product of a minstrel's fancy, but according to Elven legend the last Dragon Masters sleep deep in the forest, waiting for the time when they are needed to save the world once more." White Dwarf 92

Dreamguilers = Listed on page 46, from the 3rd edition. White Dwarf 305

Merchant Princes = The elves prosper greatly from their trading ventures across the wide seas, and merchant princes maintain their own regiments of soldiers to protect their ships and havens at home and abroad. They are always well-armed and uniformed in the colourful livery of their lord.

Dragon Mages = Many nascent Dragon Mages only recognise their destiny when their sleep becomes haunted by dreams of fire and blood, in which they ride Dragons the colour of the setting sun.

Mist Mage = Same as Mage, a hero unit. From the Storm of Chaos Lothern Sea Patrol army list.

Sea Helms = Sea Helms are the greatest heroes of Lothern, an order founded in the time of Bel Shaannar. With both spear and bow they have perfected the quicksilver strike that cheats shields and parries to pierce throats, hearts or skulls.

Horsemasters of Ellyrion = The Horsemasters of Ellyrion live in harmony with their mounts. They prefer not to break their beasts' spirits with harsh treatment; rather, the horses are enchanted and serve willingly when called.

Shadow Master =Shadow Master is a very honourable title among the warriors of the Shadow Elves. It is given to one who has fought in the shadow war for so long that he rules the darkness that he fights from.

Shadow Weaver = Shadow Weavers are the mages of Nagarythe. Due to the nature of their unending war against the Dark Elves, the mages of Nagarythe tend to specialise in magics that use shadows to conceal their presence and confound their enemies. Town Cryer Issue 10

Master Shipwright = Like all Elf ships the hulls of Eagleships are carved from the trunk of a single mighty Starwood tree grown specially for this purpose by the Master Shipwrights of Ulthuan. The Shipwrights lovingly tend groves of Starwood for the lifetimes of many men, carefully selecting only the strongest and most flawless of these magical trees for their purposes.

Priest of Asuryan = A priest dedicated to Asuryan.

Mage of Hoeth = A mage dedicated to Hoeth.

Priest of Hoeth = A priest dedicated to Hoeth.

Priestess of Isha = A priestess dedicated to Isha.

Hunters of Kurnous = All hunters venerate Kurnous, for he watches over them in the wilds. He requires that a hunter never kill animals for sport, but slay only dangerous beasts, and hunts only enough game to eat.

Priest of Kurnous = A priestess dedicated to Kurnous.

Priestess of Ladrielle = A priestess dedicated to Ladrielle.

Priestess of Lileath = A priestess dedicated to Lileath.

Mage of Loec = A trickster mage dedicated to Loec.

Priest of Loec = A priest dedicated to Loec.

Priests of Vaul = The priests ritually blind themselves when they enter the Order of Vaul. The act of putting out their eyes has greater significance than merely leaving the priests sightless. While they lose their earthly vision, they gain something far more. They are bestowed with the skill and shrewdness of their patron deity, and the understanding of the sorrow and suffering that Vaul has undergone to protect the Elves.

Priest of Mathlann = A priest dedicated to Mathlann.

Herald of Morei-heg = An important priest of the Crone Goddess, uses a bow.

Priestess of Morei-heg = A priestess dedicated to Morei-heg.

Lord of the House the Kingdom of Tiranoc
https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Elf_Rangers#Ranger_Noble_Houses

Warden of Tor Yvresse

Bladelord Saphery

Commodore Cothique

Chrace Hunter

Champion of the Maiden Guard

Eternal Guardian Avelorn

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2798132942
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2798130041
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2798121765
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2798119586
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2798117675
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2798100874
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2798093564
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2798090929
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2798097650

If you take a closer look at the list, you can see how little love the High Elves received in game 2, while being the favorite of most fans.

[Elitewrecker PT]

Yes, HE must have more heroes than half the other races combined. The community spokesperson has spoken.

[brownacs]

And here I was worried that we wouldn't get our daily dose of high elven supremacist fanaticism. What a relief...

So you want them to add... 31 new heroes to the high elves? Yeah that seems like a great idea. Full steam ahead I say.

[Багряный]

Originally posted by Elitewrecker PT:

Yes, HE must have more heroes than half the other races combined. The community spokesperson has spoken.

Originally posted by brownacs:

And here I was worried that we wouldn't get our daily dose of high elven supremacist fanaticism. What a relief...

So you want them to add... 31 new heroes to the high elves? Yeah that seems like a great idea. Full steam ahead I say.

I'm glad that most fans are aware of the need for good content, I'll have to add another list of Legendary Heroes.

[Mr Robert House]

Meanwhile in bretonia…

They get paladins aka worse lords, and casters aka worse lords

but that’s bretonia, the high elves should get better heroes than everyone else.

[Aleera]

Originally posted by brownacs:

And here I was worried that we wouldn't get our daily dose of high elven supremacist fanaticism. What a relief...

So you want them to add... 31 new heroes to the high elves? Yeah that seems like a great idea. Full steam ahead I say.

Didn't I call it Brownacs?

[brownacs]

Originally posted by Rianne:

Didn't I call it Brownacs?

She did.

[Багряный]

Originally posted by Mr Robert House:

Meanwhile in bretonia…

They get paladins aka worse lords, and casters aka worse lords

but that’s bretonia, the high elves should get better heroes than everyone else.

When the necessary heroes for the High, Dark, Forest and Eonir Elves are added, it will be possible to add a couple of heroes for bretonia.

[Aleera]

Hmm. Let's look shall we.
Not counting legendary heroes.

Lizardmen:. 4 Hero unit's in total. 5 if you count beast/heavens as seperate hero types.
Skaven: 6 hero unit's.
Dark Elves: 4 hero unit's. 8 if you count the different lores.
High Elves: 4 hero unit's. 12 if you count all lores they get access to.

Hmm. Seems Helves got a similiar amount as other base TWW2 races.
Lets see all races shall we?

Dwarves: 3
Lizardmen: 4
Skaven: 6
Beastmen: 3
Helves: 4
Welves: 4
Delves: 4
Bretonnia: 2
Vampire counts: 4
Tomb Kings: 3
Norsca: 3
Vampire coast: 3
Greenskins: 5
Empire: 4
Chaos warriors: 2

Dang Veresh. Look at how much the Helves get treated unfairly! There's 2 races that have more hero options! (lets ignore the 6 armies that have less hero types)
If we actually count all the lore variants, Helves have the most hero choice of all races. But they're clearly unfairly treated.

Cortana, play Unravel.

For the sake of completion. Let's look at generic lord types mkay?

Dwarves: 2
Lizardmen: 4
Skaven: 4
Beastmen: 3
Helves: 3
Welves: 2
Delves: 4
Bretonnia: 2
Vampire counts: 3, with bloodlines 7.
Tombkings: 1
Norsca: 1
Vampire cost: 2
Greenskins: 3
Empire: 3
Warriors of chaos: 2

If counted all types of lore of magic, which we should because this means flexibility in army comp, Helves come in with 11 different choices. Runner up would be Delves with 8, shared with Lizardmen.
Oh noes, oh wow. Helves get drawn the short end of the stick again.

Like the last time you dredged up this subject a year ago. No Veresh. First we get more stuff for the races that are lacking, THEN we can add to the already bloated Helf faction.

[Aleera]

Originally posted by Mr Robert House:

Meanwhile in bretonia…

They get paladins aka worse lords, and casters aka worse lords

but that’s bretonia, the high elves should get better heroes than everyone else.

How about Empire, Captains are just a worse Empire General, atleast Paladins get their vows, a anti large bonus and Guardian aura, for the exact same price.

Buff Empire Captains! make them do .. something! Seriously out of all Sword and board heroes Captains do nothing special.

[Багряный]

Lizardmen were given 90% of their heroes. And High Elves 20%, is that fair?

[Aleera]

Originally posted by Багряный:

Lizardmen were given 90% of their heroes. And High Elves 20%, is that fair?

Well. Yes?
4 generic heroes vs 4 generic heroes. That's balance Veresh.

Sure Skaven and Greenskins have 6 and 5, but Skaven have 3 different types of caster, so they don't really actually have 6, just 3 flavors of lore of magic. Helves would have 9 flavors.
Greenskins have 3 casters, the Orc and Nightgoblin shaman are basicly just 2 different lores. The hag actually does function outside of being a mage, so she does count as a seperate hero type.

That Lizardmen have less hero options in tabletop actually means Lizardmen are the ones in need of more on the tabletop.

Edit: Again, not everything that is in lore needs to be in game. There is such a thing as bloat. You need to be able to distinguish on the fly on the battle field, it is a RTS. There's a reason certain lords / heroes cannot equip different weapons even though they should, it's so when you see a noble on foot, you know what he does in combat.
This is called balance.

[Багряный]

Originally posted by Rianne:

Originally posted by Багряный:

Lizardmen were given 90% of their heroes. And High Elves 20%, is that fair?

Well. Yes?
4 generic heroes vs 4 generic heroes. That's balance Veresh.

Sure Skaven and Greenskins have 6 and 5, but Skaven have 3 different types of caster, so they don't really actually have 6, just 3 flavors of lore of magic. Helves would have 9 flavors.
Greenskins have 3 casters, the Orc and Nightgoblin shaman are basicly just 2 different lores. The hag actually does function outside of being a mage, so she does count as a seperate hero type.

That Lizardmen have less hero options in tabletop actually means Lizardmen are the ones in need of more on the tabletop.

Edit: Again, not everything that is in lore needs to be in game. There is such a thing as bloat. You need to be able to distinguish on the fly on the battle field, it is a RTS. There's a reason certain lords / heroes cannot equip different weapons even though they should, it's so when you see a noble on foot, you know what he does in combat.
This is called balance.

This is not a balance, but an unfair reduction in content. Since most of the heroes first of all create an aesthetic atmosphere for role-playing immersion and getting the most out of the game. The second point is the creation of themed armies that are influenced by the heroes with their abilities, since most units are meaningless already in the middle of the game. But due to the skills of the high elf heroes, they can be used throughout the game.

Balance is the restriction of elite units and their compliance with buildings and improving the behavior of AI. Balance is when you can hire 2 dragons/hydras for a t5 building. Also, it's not my fault that GW couldn't expand the content for the Frogs, etc. This does not mean that fans should not get in the game the content that they should have in the lore.

[brownacs]

How many pages do we think this is going to reach before it dies? I'm taking bets.

[Anvos]

Most of your list would literally be reskins or have so few changes to existing heroes and/or lords to be redundant.

.......

Let alone just because Empire and High Elves got more things in the table top than most other races doesn't mean the 4X should be that tilted as well. So far this game series has done a decent job of avoiding the GW trap of favoring 1-2 races so much it hurts the rest and then wondering why when they finally give stuff to other races it doesn't sell.

[Багряный]

Originally posted by Anvos:

Most of your list would literally be reskins or have so few changes to existing heroes and/or lords to be redundant.

This is not so, in a global sense, they will give thematic bonuses to armies and create the necessary role-playing atmosphere. With modifications, when you have a choice of not 5 infantry units, but 50 options, a completely different game begins.