How would Bretonnian peasant mobs fare in real life medieval age ?

[PlayerOnline]

If Bretonnian peasant mobs with their pitchforks were teleported to real life medieval battlefields or three kingdoms period, how effective do you think they will be ? Will they be able to turn the tide of battle ?

[Fryskar]

Depends.
Peasant mobs vs what?

They are weaker humans, with no real armor or weapons.
If they bring enough numbers, maybe?

[brownacs]

The Battle of Civetot says no. I think that's probably your best example of a horde of untrained, poorly equipped peasants going up against an actual army and it was a massacre.

[Toblm]

See Medieval II Total War any "Peasant Mob" unit, its the same unit, relative effectiveness should be evident.

[Raider Deci]

Terrible. Untrained mobs have always fared terrible. The only exceptions are ambush-situations. Even barely trained masses have beem absolutly demolished once up against a proper armed force

[Fear2288]

If we’re talking a literal mob of people with varying ages, physical fitness, and combat experience armed with farming/crafting tools it depends on their numbers, the battlefield, the enemy, and how they’re used.

In a open pitched battle, going against anything even remotely organized, of equal or greater number, and outfitted with the most basic weapons/armor…probably going to lose toe-to-toe.

If used as irregulars, being reserved for ambushes/flanking attacks - they may be effective at causing panic/disorganization and if the enemy is currently engaged with trained men, it could prove enough of a distraction for those trained men to gain an upper hand.

A lot also depends on the will of the men too. A man armed with a single blade and no protection who is fighting with all he has with no concern for his own safety or fate can be vastly more dangerous than another who may have better equipment but is only there because he was told he had no choice in the matter.

There’s plenty of examples in history where a larger, better equipped, or better trained force was defeated by a foe who had something to fight and die for.

Or at the very least they proved vastly harder to overcome than it was assumed they should’ve been.

It’s pretty interesting what a single person is capable of when they have no regard for their own life or have accepted that they will not be seeing the next morning.

[KellyR]

Peasant mobs like that were literally used as main troops quite frequently in the medieval period. Often times when you went to war you made your serfs come along with you and fight. They weren't very effective but quantity has its own quality, as they say.

[Aleera]

Real life peasants would be quite effective in numbers.

Bretonnian peasant mobs, being a caricature of a diseased mongrel subhuman, would be one of the least effective fighting tools. By lore they're one of the most reviled, disgusting, useless humans to exist in Warhammer.

So how would they fare in a real life battle? horrible. They're not allowed to wield weaponry or armor, so no shields, merely tattered cloth, not even quilted armor allowed.
Arrows would cut them down like weat.
Pikemen formations would skewer them before they can get in reach.
They'd have no chance to break any formation and would route quickly.

[Eminem]

Originally posted by PlayerOnline:

If Bretonnian peasant mobs with their pitchforks were teleported to real life ?

russian conscripts

[Fear2288]

Originally posted by KellyR:

Peasant mobs like that were literally used as main troops quite frequently in the medieval period. Often times when you went to war you made your serfs come along with you and fight. They weren't very effective but quantity has its own quality, as they say.

I believe what you’re thinking of would equate to the men-at-arms of Bretonnia.

The OP I think is referencing the mob group with the clothing on their back and farming implements.

Both peasants though, and yes - in medieval times the majority of any given military force would be composed of the peasantry.

How well those peasants were trained and the quality of kit they had depended on their own level of poverty (in the case of weapons/armor specifically) or their lord himself.

You’d have a range of peasants armed in the fashion of Bretonnia’s men-at-arms with basic military training/combat experience to men who were conscripted into service who were green as could be and had to bring their own kit.

If you had any sort of money whatsoever you either a) weren’t fighting, b) were an officer, or c) were cavalry.

Meanwhile knights were their own thing.

One of the things I always found interesting was that as much as pop culture history has taught us otherwise, the main armament of medieval and ancient armies in Europe was the spear.

Even the Japanese samurai, who’ve become synonymous with the katana, was first and foremost a spearman - his swords were backup weapons.

The spear was cheap, relatively easy to make/mass produce, was also relatively easy to become fairly proficient with, and you could engage your enemy 6 - 16 feet away from you.

Don’t get me wrong, swords were there, they were used, but nowhere near as much as spears and they were usually in the hands of nobility/knights or the stray peasant who had a family heirloom or had nabbed one from a previous battlefield.

[Shaman King]

Originally posted by Fear2288:

Originally posted by KellyR:

Peasant mobs like that were literally used as main troops quite frequently in the medieval period. Often times when you went to war you made your serfs come along with you and fight. They weren't very effective but quantity has its own quality, as they say.

I believe what you’re thinking of would equate to the men-at-arms of Bretonnia.

The OP I think is referencing the mob group with the clothing on their back and farming implements.

Both peasants though, and yes - in medieval times the majority of any given military force would be composed of the peasantry.

How well those peasants were trained and the quality of kit they had depended on their own level of poverty (in the case of weapons/armor specifically) or their lord himself.

You’d have a range of peasants armed in the fashion of Bretonnia’s men-at-arms with basic military training/combat experience to men who were conscripted into service who were green as could be and had to bring their own kit.

If you had any sort of money whatsoever you either a) weren’t fighting, b) were an officer, or c) were cavalry.

Meanwhile knights were their own thing.

One of the things I always found interesting was that as much as pop culture history has taught us otherwise, the main armament of medieval and ancient armies in Europe was the spear.

Even the Japanese samurai, who’ve become synonymous with the katana, was first and foremost a spearman - his swords were backup weapons.

The spear was cheap, relatively easy to make/mass produce, was also relatively easy to become fairly proficient with, and you could engage your enemy 6 - 16 feet away from you.

Don’t get me wrong, swords were there, they were used, but nowhere near as much as spears and they were usually in the hands of nobility/knights or the stray peasant who had a family heirloom or had nabbed one from a previous battlefield.

Thats true thats why i always in multiplayer make my army spearmen heavy with like 3 units of swordsmen. The spear is just the best. I dont even play arpgs that dont have spear its great vs skeletons and with shield... In real lifeyou can also throw it like a javelin if you trainedit for some time

[grognardgary]

Ah but a bunch of Dutch men with what they called a godendag(sp) and a bunch of home caltrops managed to sandbag a bunch of French Nobles in one of the inumerable battles of Contrai(SP) in the 14th or fifteenth century as best I can remember.

[Aleera]

Originally posted by grognardgary:

Ah but a bunch of Dutch men with what they called a godendag(sp) and a bunch of home caltrops managed to sandbag a bunch of French Nobles in one of the inumerable battles of Contrai(SP) in the 14th or fifteenth century as best I can remember.

As a Dutch person, you mean a Goedendag.

Which is just a nickname we have for a spiked mace. It means "Good day". Asin, Good day sir, how would you like your head caved in?

[Central]

Originally posted by grognardgary:

Ah but a bunch of Dutch men with what they called a godendag(sp) and a bunch of home caltrops managed to sandbag a bunch of French Nobles in one of the inumerable battles of Contrai(SP) in the 14th or fifteenth century as best I can remember.

if we are thinking about the same battle than this battle is better known as the battle of the golden spurs in which flemish militia defeated a french army but it should be noted that the flemish militia was armored (some even had mail armor) and quite well trained. you cannot really compare them to bretonian peasants.

[Anvos]

As depicted in game/lore, terribly, as they would literally just be a meat shield that would make actual Medieval Peasant Conscripts look like professional soldiers.

[Fear2288]

Originally posted by Zakys:

Thats true thats why i always in multiplayer make my army spearmen heavy with like 3 units of swordsmen. The spear is just the best. I dont even play arpgs that dont have spear its great vs skeletons and with shield... In real lifeyou can also throw it like a javelin if you trainedit for some time

Throwing your spear would’ve been the last thing you did. It was your main armament. Obviously, if you found yourself in a dire situation, you have to do what you have to do, but chucking your main (and possibly only) weapon would’ve been a last resort.

It’s like a modern soldier using his rifle as a melee weapon in CQC.

Could it be effective? Sure. Could you also lose it or damage it and make it inoperable? Absolutely.

Anyways…

I long for the day when TW forces the AI to create army compositions that make sense or are historical (for the historical titles at the least).

I’m so tired of the system they’ve used forever that tries to counter the human player by assuming that the human player is going to throw together 20 unit stacks of the highest tier units regardless of how impractical or unrealistic it may be.

I’m tired of fighting armies that field 10 Royal Pegasus knights, 1 lord and 3 heroes, 1 grail guardians, 2 peasant bowmen, 1 man at arms w/spears, 1 foot squires, and 1 grail relique (to use W2 and Brets as an example).

I don’t care if the AI decides that statistically that set up is the most effective on that turn - it’s stupid looking and annoying to fight.