Frugal Trait Stacking?

[Fangthane]

Could anyone tell me if the High elf Noble hero Frugal trait stacks if you have multiple in the same army stack.

[Rokso]

is that upkeep reduction? It should stack
All traits will stack if they are stat modifiers

[yuzhonglu]

Oh yes it stacks.

[Aleera]

All hero/lord traits stack.

All hero imbed skills do not stack. Only the highest counts.

[Arthur two sheds Jackson]

Originally posted by Rianne:

All hero/lord traits stack.

All hero imbed skills do not stack. Only the highest counts.

replenishment skill stack but dunno about other...

[Fangthane]

Awesome, thanks for the replies all.

[A.Pot]

Best to put it on Lords with traits like Keen or Ardent for even more Upkeep reduction

[JoeVonFo]

It stacks.
The big questions if what happens if you have 7+ of them and remain on one army.
Will your soldiers pay you for the privilege of fighting for you?
They should! That much I know. You'd be frugal AF son!

[Aleera]

Originally posted by Arthur two sheds Jackson:

Originally posted by Rianne:

All hero/lord traits stack.

All hero imbed skills do not stack. Only the highest counts.

replenishment skill stack but dunno about other...

No, I said IMBED skills do not stack. A hero that imbedded gives replenishment +22% and another hero that's imbedded that gives +8% replenishment, will only give the army +22% replenishment.

However if the first hero gives +22% replenishment and the second hero has a follower that adds +5%, you will have +27% in total.
This is exceedingly easy to prove with say Dwarven Runepriests, specced into giving +10 armor as a imbed skill. 2 Runepriests won't give +15/18/20. Merely 10 bonus armor.

Imbed skills are one of the few things ingame that do not stack. (the thing that pops up when you rightclick a friendly army with a hero) Skills, traits etc, items, these all do stack.

[Professor H. Farnsworth]

Originally posted by JoeVonFo:

It stacks.
The big questions if what happens if you have 7+ of them and remain on one army.
Will your soldiers pay you for the privilege of fighting for you?
They should! That much I know. You'd be frugal AF son!

It does not stack like that it's

5% reduction for the current cost for the calculation. You can test this out on any army that has more than 1 way of reducing costs.

Say you have a unit that cost 100g upkeep.
You put in 1 Frugal Hero and now the upkeep is 95.
You put in a second Frugal Hero and now the upkeep is 90.25 (90 rounded down)
You put in a third Frugal Hero and now the upkeep is 87.7375 (87 rounded down)

You will never be able to hit 100%. The only exception to that are Vampire Counts, but it is a flat 100% for skeletons always.

Frugal heroes are very much worth it though. A resistant Handmaiden, 1-2 Frugal Nobles and an Entrepeneur Fire Mage,

[Arthur two sheds Jackson]

Originally posted by Rianne:

Originally posted by Arthur two sheds Jackson:

replenishment skill stack but dunno about other...

No, I said IMBED skills do not stack. A hero that imbedded gives replenishment +22% and another hero that's imbedded that gives +8% replenishment, will only give the army +22% replenishment.

However if the first hero gives +22% replenishment and the second hero has a follower that adds +5%, you will have +27% in total.
This is exceedingly easy to prove with say Dwarven Runepriests, specced into giving +10 armor as a imbed skill. 2 Runepriests won't give +15/18/20. Merely 10 bonus armor.

Imbed skills are one of the few things ingame that do not stack. (the thing that pops up when you rightclick a friendly army with a hero) Skills, traits etc, items, these all do stack.

but it does stack I do it all the time even legend of total war was surprise when it worked...
replenishment do stack but other skill may not so what you typed prove nothing

[Aleera]

Originally posted by Arthur two sheds Jackson:

but it does stack I do it all the time even legend of total war was surprise when it worked...
replenishment do stack but other skill may not so what you typed prove nothing

Ah yes, everything Legend of total war says is 100% truth. /sarcasm

No, imbed skills do not stack. Scouting, training, army movement, army replenish. These do not stack. Their highest one is chosen.

HOWEVER. There are many other factors that give replenishment. Each seperate instance does add. Having 2 followers that add +5% on 2 different characters in the same army, does give +10%. Events, seperate skills, region, buildings, global buildings, global skill effects, traits. These all stack up to infinitum.

Tl;Dr YES replenishment stacks, army imbed skill for replenishment does not stack with another instance of itself. Only 1 imbed skill of the same type can be active.
(You know, that little icon above the hero's model on the map.)

[DedZedNub]

Guess you have to go into testing. Makes you wonder out loud, did CA ever test this and document this ... I'd lean towards a strong no. Whaddya think? Post your comments here and I won't read those either since CA never read their own quality control comments either. Fair for the goose, well fair for the gander, or whatever that means.

[Professor H. Farnsworth]

Originally posted by DedZedNub:

Guess you have to go into testing. Makes you wonder out loud, did CA ever test this and document this ... I'd lean towards a strong no. Whaddya think? Post your comments here and I won't read those either since CA never read their own quality control comments either. Fair for the goose, well fair for the gander, or whatever that means.

They don't stack.
Obviously CA tests the game they have an entire team just for that. However, when there are thousands of things to test - you won't have time for all nor catch all the issues. Does not matter how many people that test it, there's always going to be bugs.

[zefyris]

A general idea of how to understand if the same buff can stack with itself is to see if it has a buff icon displayed somewhere.
Embedded bonuses (the one indicated when you're embedding the hero, asking you confirmation) generates a buff icon on the side of the lord portrait. So putting several times a same hero giving the same embedded buff will indeed not stack.

It's the same for many things : tech stealing generates a buff next to the hero portrait, so it doesn't stack to do more the next turns, it just prolongates the duration by the appropriate number of turn instead.
Same would go for factionwide buffs or debuffs that are listed at the top of your interface with icons : for example factionwide buff coming from treasures at sea will not stack with the same buff name. And lord buff gotten the same way will not stack with itself as well. You can however have as many buff icon as you want as long as it's different buff name.

Same thing during battles. Army wide buffs that do not appear as icons are stackable.
So for example if you've got several heroes buffing missile damage directly for the same army, if it's not appearing on the units cards as a buff icon, it simply directly increases the correct stat, so it stacks.
However, an army wide physical resist that has a buff icon (ex : the crafted HE items you get from the dilemna) means that having several times the same item worn by different characters in the same army is a waste, as it won't stack.

btw army wide buffs coming from character traits never make icons so they'll always stack.

So now that I've explained that, just one thing about upkeep reduction. In this game, it does NOT multiply with each other when you have several.
The way the game handles it is ADDING THE VALUES of all % upkeep reduction and all % upkeep increase for that unit and multiply the result with the base upkeep of that unit.

Let's say you have a unit costing 200 base upkeep.
You've got currently a
+90 % upkeep increase due to supply lines
-40% upkeep due to a LL trait
-15% upkeep due to frugal
-5% upkeep due to tech
-15% upkeep due to blue line skill
-8% upkeep due to the end of blue line skill
-5% upkeep due to a yellow line skill

=> the game will do 200 * (1 + 0.9 -0.4 - 0.15 - 0.05 - 0.08 -0.05) = 200* 1.02 = 204 final upkeep.

so you CAN reach 0 for any unit by stacking enough frugal (provided the supply lines isn't massive). In that exemple above if I have 7 more frugal that's 7*0.15 more reduction and we'll reach 0 for that unit. Until you add one more army on the field, that is.


Free skellies and free zombies techs for VC don't work that way. It makes the unit base cost "0". So no matter what kind of multiplier you have, no matter how much supply line crazyness you'll have going on, 0 multiplied by a finite number will always be 0.
I know it can be a bit confusing with the way it's phrased but that's how it works; so that tech works completely differently from upkeep increase and upkeep reduction rules that almost everything else follows.

It's very easy to test with some factions. Norsca in game one could have several armies and literally pay 0 for all of them. It's harder in game 2 unless you play in easy due to massive upkeep penalty increase and some tech nerfs.
In game 2, you can have easily black arks running around with dragons and hydras costing 0 due to this, same with black arks armies of shades for example.

[grognardgary]

Note both Brettonians and Empire and likely other human groups get certain wherein if you make the right choice you can hire units far more cheaply for a few turns. And that also stacks with recruitment cost modifiers born by your lord.