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So, allow me to explain, first giving how an 'ordinary' human soldier might fall to chaos, and then after I've done all those, I'll go to orks. Chaos works because of logic, ultimately. So, for instance, a human might start to hate everything and just want to kill everything because of the conditions he's been put through in war. Most Khornate worshippers fall into this category, people who've been through enough ♥♥♥♥ they just want to attack -everything-, and then they steadily start to get tugged towards Khorne until they can actually start murdering everything, because Khorne will help them murder everything, so they work for Khorne.
Slaanesh worship works because of excess, because of enjoying things too much and pushing envelopes, as such, a human blademaster who constantly tries to get better might fall to Slaanesh. The guy is good enough, but he wants to be better, and so he falls to Slaanesh.
Tzeentch worship works because of ambition. A soldier might desire to become a captain, and pull off some scheme to do it that entertains Tzeentch, which in turn results in Tzeentch giving him some power, which in turn results in him reaching further, resulting in Tzeentch being more amused and the cycle repeating itself.
And Nurgle Worship works because of despair. You beg someone, anyone to help you in your last moments, and Nurgle extends those last moments a bit more, a bit further.
Orcs do not have these emotions. Orcs do not -hate- properly. Orcs do not -enjoy- things in the same way as humans. Orcs do not have true 'ambitions' beyond being bigger then the next orc. Orcs do not feel despair. Orcs are inhuman. All orcs do, is fight, all orcs like to do, is fight, all orcs can think to do, is fight. Of all the races, in truth, Orcs are a horde race. In point of fact, them owning terrain at all is -kinda- wrong, because they're not so much owning that terrain as fighting eachother within that terrain -constantly- resulting in them 'more or less' holding the fortifications when another race shows up so they have some guys on the walls.
Orcs do not -think-, orcs -react-. And chaos -loathes- that. The human thinks "Huh, war is hell". Orcs think "Boss said smash, I'm smashin' in dis direction!"
Furthermore, Orcs have a bit of a natural anti-chaos culture of their own, where they'll brutally murder any orc who has a mutation -other then two heads-. Two-headed orcs spend -alot- of time fighting themselves, and are kept as favored slaves, believed to be gifted by gork & mork.
Now, people might disagree with me, and they wouldn't be wrong. Hobgoblins are very much an exception to this rule, being, to all practical extents and purposes, chaos goblins. However, the higher echelon greenskins, the orcs, are very much, very often, recorded as being non-chaos afflicted. And if nothing else, how could you -tell- if a warboss was favored by khorne? If he mutates, his -entire- mob might swarm him. If he merely spouts khornate philosophies of murdering everything, he's just acting like a normal greenskin.
Now, 40k is a different story I can go on if you'd like.
Orcs do not hate properly: Orcs do not feel 'true' hatred. they merely have things they enjoy fighting 'more'. So an Orc with 'hatred dwarfs' merely likes fighting dwarfs MORE, if that makes sense. An orc with 'Likes dwarfs' has found himself beaten by dwarfs -sufficiently- he'd rather not fight dwarfs if he can avoid it. Most greenskin do not survive long enough if they fail fighting something to reach the point of 'liking' that thing.
Orcs do not enjoy things: Orcs minds are somewhat similar to goldfish. They'll forget. Simple as that. Each time you put something in front of them might -well- be the first time to their memory. Or not. It varies somewhat depending on the subject matter and the orc in question, but suffice to say, orc memories are insufficient for them to really 'raise' previous actions most often, and their imaginations are insufficient to properly grab Slaanesh' interest.
Orcs do not have true ambitions: Yeah. No. I'm unclear as to why -goblins- never manage to gain Tzeentch's favor noticably, however, as there are recorded instances of goblin shamans and bosses managing to get armies. Although perhaps -Grom the paunch- was actually a Tzeentch favored Gobbo. -shrugs-
Orcs do not feel despair: So, imagine an orc is losing a battle. Yes? Imagine he's had an arm cut off, he's bleeding from all pores, he's got an axe stuck in his back, etc etc. He's -still- having a good time. He might be scared, but he's -still- probably convinced he'll win. There is no 'malaise' to the orc mindset, at least not in combat. Orcs -do- dislike not getting in fights, as Grimgors' lack of patience shows, but unless you place an orc in a -very- small box indeed, there will soon be other greenskins for him to bash one way or another, or he'll break out, or he'll die due to lack of fighting, as greenskin organic systems -do- actually physically -require- fighting.
"Orcs don't fall to Chaos because the only thing an Orc wants is to be an Orc." They're pretty single-minded.
Edit: It is a good explaination. I would suggest anyone interested in some lore read it. Kudos to Chameon for not using sex as the reason to fall to Slaanesh, as well. It's a well thought out post!
Kind of explains why Grimgor gets 'bored' when he's in some cases 1 axe stroke away from a complete victory and just walks away; It's not a 'fight' anymore in his eyes. He won. Why keep going? Take the boyz home, 'ad enuf, let's find anava fight.
Not sure if you have an afinity for it but how about Elves?
We know Morathi and the entire Dark Elvesln race is essentially a cult of Slaanesh... But they aren't daemonic in their depravity. It's almost like they I don't even realise it's Slaanesh that they owe their condition to. Especially in Morathi's case.
Thank you for the compliment. And sex is a common explanation for Slaanesh stuff, but it's irrelevant here, so I picked an area where it would be highly relevant to greenskins, being better at chopping things. It's also usually (although not IMPOSSIBLY) not the reason the character falls in question. Usually SLaanesh gets people with gluttony, vanity, pride or envy, but not lust.
I'm not -as- expert in elves as greenskins and chaos (My cousin's a huge fan of greenskins, I'm a huge fan of chaos), but I'll have a go.
So, first off, there's the current, basic lore explanation. Elves have two gods that are functionally Slaanesh in a silly hat. They have a god of rape and a god of lust, and both exist on opposite sides of the spectrum. Strictly speaking, ALOT of lore retcons showed up to claim these were what they were -actually- worshipping and Slaanesh just so happened to siphon off some of the excess magical whump and gifted some of his favorite hedonists to the fore. Such as Morathi, Dechala (how you can like a baby sacrificed to a different god, no idea, but hey!), N'kari, etc etc.
That's the most basic explanation, they're -actually- worshipping different gods and just don't realize that it's empowering Slaanesh. But that explanation is boring and undercuts the overall power and personality of Morathi, as it makes her an unintentional slave of a dark power.
So, allow me to begin at the beginning a bit, because I don't know where everyone's starting in terms of lore.
Elves were one of the races created by the old ones. As were lizardmen, dwarfs, humans, halflings, ogres, etc et fuggin' cetera. Elves were a failure due to their overall corruptibility thanks to their pride and arrogance, which is why the old ones didn't stop on one of their first batches, but they kept them around anyway because, no sense cleaning up the lab afterwards, eh? Plus, they did still have -some- potential, so why throw away all potential.
Time passes, elves build a civilization, this civilization meets up with the dwarfs, elves start trading back and forth with the dwarfs, a huge daemonic incursion happens, lizardmen stop the majority of it while Elves figure out how to make a gigantic magical vortex to basically spend chaos energy for the sake of spending chaos energy thus stopping daemons from being spawned, the king of the elves picks up a sword of one of their crafted gods (Khaine, the god of war) and murders an UNTOLD amount of daemons to buy time for this, etc etc.
Alright, up to speed on what elves are now? Good. This is where things start going fast.
So prior to the Phoenix King using said sword, Morathi seduced him, as the Daemons had killed his...prior wife? I'm not so sure on this bit, as I've heard conflicting information regarding it, but suffice to say, Morathi had a one night stand with the king. It's unclear whether or not she married him as well, it's a horrible mixxer of different bits of information in the lore judging by the fact I've heard no less then 20 different explanations. So, Morathi gives birth to Malekith in due time, and, in due time, things move on.
So, Malekith tries to become the phoenix king, but he decides to let the council vote on it (Yes, they even let -him- choose whether or not they voted on it, because there was no real precedent here) and they vote for a different contendor, who they believe would be a better peacetime leader. Malekith accepts this, and ends up being put in charge of the armies -and- diplomacy outside of the nation, with the elected phoenix king handling internal infrastructure.
A few hundred years pass in this state, and Morathi spends the whole time whispering to her son that he could be doing so much better, and he starts to believe her. Likewise, the Cult of Pleasure, an artists' guild / aesthete's guild begins to start up. The high elves generally have a neutral-positive opinion of said Cult of Pleasure for many years because it seems to be a generally passive thing, it's just pretty pictures, fancy smells, etc etc.
The next bit is a matter of who you believe, I'm going to go with a more middleground approach here, elf fans will correct me towards whichever side they personally prefer one extreme or the other, but the story's told differently from both perspectives.
As might be predicted, the Cult of Pleasure gets revealed to be little more then Slaanesh worship behind a paper thin mask. Malekith is the entity to discover this, and singlehandedly slaughters two cells of it within Ulthuan. He then goes hunting for more, and he slaughters -many- more cells before discovering that the Phoenix King -might-, MAYBE be a member of the cult. Without a moments' hesitation he kills the King, and then demands the council elect him. The council refuses, and he walks towards the fire, then Malekith's followers and the council end up in a fight (Either from the council trying to stop him from becoming the king, or Malekith didn't -actually- ask, and just attacked), and a large chunk of the council ends up dead, Malekith ends up burnt and pulled out of the fire extra-crispy style, and the dark elves end up running away from Ulthuan to give him time to recover.
Eventually, Malekith discovers Morathi was actually the one setting up the cults, and confronts her about it. She admits it (sideways) by acknowledging that she was trying to set up a powerbase for Malekith. Malekith more or less drops it, and that's all we hear from the cult of pleasure for a few years in regards to the Dark Elves. On the High Elf side, the cult resurges every few hundred years or so with elves regularly randomly falling to the precepts of aesthetic pleasure.
A few hundred years later, Morathi starts setting up the cult of pleasure -again- in secret within Malekith's empire. Malekith finds out about it, comes DAMN near to killing Morathi, before she convinces him that it would be a good idea to use them as a resource, as he can't -just- use Khaine as his only weapon. Malekith more or less agrees, and eventually ends up tossing a greater daemon of Slaanesh at Ulthuan as a part of his attempt to conquer it.
Whoo. So, that's a deep dive. But you were asking why dark elves don't go demonic in their depravity.
.....Wut? Okay, so I'm guessing you don't know Dark Elves hobbies. Allow me to refresh you. Torturing hundreds of thousands of slaves. Raiding coastlines for slaves. Using slaves to build structures to torture the slaves that built the structure. Binding the souls of disobedient darkelves into weapons that feel the damage they inflict. Binding the souls of obedient dark elves into armor that feels every hit it takes. Binding the souls of obedient dark elves into weapons that feel the damage they inflict. Binding the souls of disobedient dark elves into armor that dah da da da. Drugs. Going into combat on enough drugs that they can no longer see colors. Combat. War. LOTS of combat and war. Going into combat and war naked thanks to drugs. Starting cults dedicated to the dark gods.
Additionally, it might be worth noting that dark elves retain the high elves hobby of 'year length' parties. With the inherent BDSM that Dark Elves tend to mix into said flavors.
Not quite, while they certainly share somo aspects with Chaos, Dark Elves' gods are independent. They are actually DE that worship Chaos, Morathis cult for example (and they are perfectly aware of this), but, since it is banned by Malekith, they have to do it in secret.
".....Wut? Okay, so I'm guessing you don't know Dark Elves hobbies. Allow me to refresh you. Torturing hundreds of thousands of slaves. Raiding coastlines for slaves. Using slaves to build structures to torture the slaves that built the structure. Binding the souls of disobedient darkelves into weapons that feel the damage they inflict. Binding the souls of obedient dark elves into armor that feels every hit it takes. Binding the souls of obedient dark elves into weapons that feel the damage they inflict. Binding the souls of disobedient dark elves into armor that dah da da da. Drugs. Going into combat on enough drugs that they can no longer see colors. Combat. War. LOTS of combat and war. Going into combat and war naked thanks to drugs. Starting cults dedicated to the dark. [/quote]
"
I did know about all that stuff but I guess I should clarify what I mean. I mean that, despite all of... well... THAT... They never end up getting Daemonised, not even against their will (we KNOW chaos gods do this a lot of the time. Just look at Chaos Spawn). DE show all the hedonistic and depraved signs of demonization but without ever getting the crab-hand treatment or quadruple boobage that usually accompanies excessive Slaaneshian activity. Witch Elves come close to Daemonettes but miss the mark in physicality. Just wondered why. If there's any reason at all ever given.
Ooooh. You mean why no MUTATIONS. Okay, okay. So that was -my- bad for misunderstanding you there. Elves are -physically- resilient to chaos, but mentally weak as all hell, arguably weaker then even HUMANS. This, in addition to the fact that elves have fleshsculpting magic, and you don't see a terrible number of mutations beyond slight improvements for the dark elves, because the dark elves are arrogant enough to view themselves as the most beautiful things ever.
In case you're curious, the likely reason why every dark elf lady doesn't look like MOrathi (Despite Morathi being canonically the most beautiful thing in the lore) is because Morathi probably kills every Dark Elf lady that does it.
I figured that might have been the reason but wasn't entirely sure! Really appreciate the awesome responses. These forums would benefit from more people like you.
I knew a fair bit of 40k lore (played TT since I was 10) but hadn't ever delved into fantasy. Especially after the catastrophy that was AoS. But like you I've always been a Chaos/Daemon guy and this is a nice mental clarification! :)
True, elves tend to be more resistant to mutation as are most races except humans (probably because it was easier to GW to have a single race for Chaos armies instead of having to mix all the races in it).
Also, most Druchii are not followers of the Chaos gods, witches for example are followers of Khaine. You can get mutations in 3 ways:
- Randomly, some people simply get mutated, it may be because of genetics, bad luck or some other reason, but it just happens.
- Magic, exposure to magic in its pure form or warpstone can cause mutations.
- Favoir of the Gods, the Gods give mutations as 'gift' for their followers
It not oly matters what you do, also in whose name you do it, DE commit many attrocities that 'fit' with Slaanesh, but they are not (most of them) actually his/her followers, so it falls under their own gods 'influence' like Khaine and Atharti.
Well then, I wooould like to bring up one LAST bit of lore then, before I do my usual thing of zoning out, since you're, like me, a chaos/daemons fanboy, and that would be on the true, ultimate, perfect archnemesis of Chaos. The one thing that honestly has the capacity of stopping chaos dead in its' tracks. The monster of all monsters, the destroyer of all that is dark....Ogres.
No, seriously, I'm not kidding.
So, earlier I brought up that most of the Warhammer Fantasy races (Excluding Dragons, intriguingly enough, and trolls and a few other things, like dragon ogres) were in fact created by the old ones. In that list I mentioned Ogres. Ogres are the ONE thing in setting that is actually functionally -immune- to chaos, and is both physically strong enough -and- MYSTICALLY strong enough to be a threat to Chaos, they were -actually- the 'perfect' creation of the old ones as an anti-chaos force. Like, seriously, the Old Ones had already put down the drawing board and were about to seriously get to work. Of course, around that time, the two portals the old ones had used at the polls blew up like someone decided to pop a fusion bomb releasing tons of chaos magic onto the planet, so they had to run.
Strictly speaking, if the Ogre Kingdoms had ever been allowed to develop a culture that would have been more appropriately aimed, instead of being hit with a meteor the likes of which would've given the dinosaurs some problems, they probably would have been a serious threat to chaos. As-is, they're the thrall of a god, either of their own creation or a monstrous alien, that desires they devour literally everything. They cannot -stop- being hungry, and their entire empire is built around their hunger. They're gluttonous, in the same way that Orcs like fighting, and incapable of thinking in ways other then that.
.....Yes, there are Chaos Ogres. Ogres can fall to chaos if they -want- to fall to chaos, but it has to be an active thought for them, as opposed to a passive one. With the current culture, you can -sometimes- corrupt an ogre by simply offering him food if he agrees to follow your gods.
Because they serve Khaine. They already have a War God of Murder they dont need another.
Since Aenarion pulled the Sword of Khaine all Elves who did fight with Aenarion got the curse of Khaine. Some more some less and most of them are Darkelves Today.
High and Darkelves have some Slaanesh Cults. But they get killed on sight. Even the Darkelves. Malekith Hates thse Chaos Cults. The Doomfire Warloks are Slaanesh Cultists who got cursed by Malekith.