How do you hold a line?

[Lil Bunny]

I've been wondering if i'm doing things right. If you want to hold a solid line with spears (like one straight line and assuming the enemy charges each unit 1 v 1) do you just create the line, wait for the charge, and wish they hold the line or do you right click the enemy that is engaged with your unit?

I always do the former and sometimes even with spear vs spear i lose a lot more units than the same tier 1 spear unit i battle with. Do i right click the enemy then when they start to engage?

[RCMidas]

Well, there's a lot of different things that can affect that. Difficulty matters. The exact same unit will have buffs to its stats if you are playing on higher difficulties. Technologies matter. The exact same unit with some supporting techs will outmatch their enemy. Lord skills matter. If you see an army led by a Lord with lots of red skills chosen, a simple slugfest is not going to end well.

Ideally, you never want to play fair with your enemy. Focus fire with your ranged and annihilate one unit at a time. The unit that would have been fighting them now gets to gang up on someone else. Eliminate enemy ranged and artillery as soon as possible. Never clump up if you see either artillery or a spellcaster on the field.

Unless it's an extremely dangerous Lord like Kholek or a dragon-rider, wait a few minutes into the battle before sniping them out and killing them. Their army will already be closer to breaking if you let the timer run down for a bit, and sudden massive loss of leadership from a dead Lord (which decreases a little after a while) will be better then than previously when they can simply tough it out.

[Inardesco]

You can use alt + drag to drag your line forwards, this should keep your troops in a line.

Subsequently, you can pause the game, then put your line in a locked group and tell the group to attack the enemy, this'll have 'm somewhat stay in formation while moving to their target.

Alternatively, you can just let them come to you and make use of the charge defence (if available) to negate the enemy charge.

[Lil Bunny]

Thanks for the reply. But should i right click the enemy with the units im holding the line with or do i let them stand there and let them retaliate on their own. I noticed that sometimes when the enemy charges and the battle ensues, the enemy units tend to look "more eager" to fight (each of their units looks like they want to swing their weapons) but if i just let my units sit there it seems like some of them would actually look "more eager" and engage the enemy but the rest of the units just stand their ground and face the enemy. So do i let them do that or should i right click the enemy unit?

[Cpt. RT]

Also theres a hidden mechanic such as mass. If you strectch spears too thin they will get knock out of the line. Too deep then you can get surrounded

[Shirome Artiste]

It depends.

Some units have a charge defense vs large/all. If you're just fighting enemy infantry and you have units that have charge defense vs all, standing there is (almost) always the way to go, as stationary units "brace themselves" against enemies coming at them from the front, and with charge defense vs all that means that the enemy charge bonus becomes 0, basically only tiring them out.(Not entirely true, as there are other benefits to charging, but eh.)

If your spear units do NOT have charge defense vs ALL, and you're fighting other infantry(I.E. "small units") then it's almost always better to charge once the enemy closes, as your units do not negate the opposing charge bonus and as such it is better to get your own charge bonus as well rather than simply take it.


Here's a quick cheat sheet.

1: Does the unit have charge defense vs all?
Yes: hold position
No: Go to 2.

2: Does the unit have charge defense vs large AND is facing a "large model size" foe?
Yes: hold position
No: Go to 3.

3: Is the EXACT SPOT your unit stands on VITALLY important to your grand battle plan?
Yes: hold position
No: Go to 4.

4: Give the order to charge.


Even the weakest of units get SOME charge bonus, so if you don't have a pressing reason to brace(I.E. appropriate charge defense or it being important to hold THAT position) it's pretty much always better to charge.


And given that you don't really need to charge all that far(The distance the troops need to run with an attack order is actually pretty short!) you don't really tire your troops out via charging anyway.


Do note though that charging IS NOT RUNNING. Charging and running are two separate things.

Running is merely giving a move order that isn't at walking speed. Running into an enemy wont give you a charge bonus. The units merely "collide". Of course, with high-mass units simply running into small units can still knock them flying and deal impact damage, but that's a different kettle of fish.
Charging is giving an ATTACK order at an enemy. If the charging unit makes contact a charge bonus will be given.

[RhyoliTe]

It depends alot on the faction you're playing and the units you're using. If you're playing as dwarves who have great armor, good melee defense and ♥♥♥♥♥♥ charge bonus its better to just let them get charged (especially by cavalry because of their innate charge defense).

But if you're playing greenskins who generally have units with decent charge bonuses its better to charge the enemy a few moments before the lines clash (make sure the charge animations trigger) so your units will perform better.

Then there's to take in to consideration who is charging you. If its infantry then refer to the above, if its cavalry you might want to shrink your line so it becomes less wide but thicker. This might help to prevent the cavalry from breaking through your line and trap them in your formation, which gives you the upper hand.

However if you've got anti large infantry then you always want to brace for cavalry with a wide formation, because they will negate the charge of the cavalry. And if you then give an attack order you have a good chance to envelop the cavalry if they do not pull out immediately, because you got a wide line.

It's all very situation.

[Lil Bunny]

I am currently playing Malekith and still early game i have mostly dreadspears and shards and the starting units. Im trying to wipe out the skaven clan near my province. Most of the spears deal with clanrats. So it's a better choice to just let them hold there and make the darkshards do the work?

[Shirome Artiste]

Originally posted by šÞ Lil Bunny:

-snip-

You're earlygame dark elves. OF COURSE YOU SHOULD LET THE DARKSHARDS TO THE WORK. THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE FOR.

In all seriousness, yes. Your dreadspears are there to take a beating for the dark gods Khaine while your Darkshards mow down whatever is currently vicoously pummeling your poor dreadspears into a fine paste.

[Ben Argo]

Uh,addmeandyou can observe a basic battle. I'm guessing you're having issues with positioning

[Hurricane]

As de just build all darkshards. Dont bother with dread spears lol... they suck and 2 lines of darkshards kill everything even cav... put your lord up front let the enemy blob around him and shred them with shards. Shards behind you shards deal with cav trying to flank and 2 lines will pound any infantry trying to reach you. Youll take a few losses if they do reach your lines but by then just move around with more shards and shoot them in the ass. Shards are op die to their armor pen. The tech tree for them is insane too they get so many buffs along with lord buffs they just decimate all. Try get the ones with shields before tou start spamming them as they counter other archers better