Feral manticores are so useless

[SunDriedSheet]

I tried to use them to deal with enemy artillery. Impossible. In siege battle impossible on 110 percent. They get hit from some crossbowguy on a wall when trying to fly over a wall, not even dealing any damage to it, and manticore is turning frenzy right where it is, attacking all halberds nearby, committing suicide. So useless.... Not to mention its fighting skills are really poor

[SunDriedSheet]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1819946574

[SunDriedSheet]

See this melee attack and defense, a bit op.. Well, forget about manticores, manticores are just a worthless thing to make chaos units a bit more diverse, even though no one is going to use it

[ChaosKhan]

Originally posted by 654681631:

Well, forget about manticores, manticores are just a worthless thing to make chaos units a bit more diverse, even though no one is going to use it

I expected nothing less from the deduction of a noob. Well, have fun discovering the game.

[SunDriedSheet]

Originally posted by ChaosKhan:

Originally posted by 654681631:

Well, forget about manticores, manticores are just a worthless thing to make chaos units a bit more diverse, even though no one is going to use it

I expected nothing less from the deduction of a noob. Well, have fun discovering the game.

Thanks, mister private profile. I dont have to use manticores for terror attacks, there is like one hundred other units dealing this kind of attack and are one hundred times more useful and stronger. Plus I have got a banner for that as well, I can put it on anything. Manticore is soooo useless. Sooooo useless :)

[Andrewbh2003]

Originally posted by 654681631:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1819946574

what a boring af army you literally just spam chosen? btw chosen halberds and shields are not even a good unit to spam if your gonna spam chosen then at the very least use 2-3 shields 2 GW "late game swap out the shields for all gw" and 2 halberds btw i have a lot of sucess with manticores especially for how cheap they are as last time i checked chosen dont cause terror and are not mobile at all

also 2 shaggoths? like why? unless your facing stacks with 10 steam tanks shaggoths are pointless regular dragon ogres and the summoners of rage are not only cheaper but also more effective at killing cav where the shaggoths are for killing big monsters but then again you already have plenty of anti large with your halberd spam so dont mind me

[SunDriedSheet]

Originally posted by andrewbh2003:

Originally posted by 654681631:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1819946574

what a boring af army you literally just spam chosen? btw chosen halberds and shields are not even a good unit to spam if your gonna spam chosen then at the very least use 2-3 shields 2 GW "late game swap out the shields for all gw" and 2 halberds btw i have a lot of sucess with manticores especially for how cheap they are as last time i checked chosen dont cause terror and are not mobile at all

also 2 shaggoths? like why? unless your facing stacks with 10 steam tanks shaggoths are pointless regular dragon ogres and the summoners of rage are not only cheaper but also more effective at killing cav where the shaggoths are for killing big monsters but then again you already have plenty of anti large with your halberd spam so dont mind me

Because these human factions are spamming like crazy crossbows, handgunners, outriders.. And I fight them only in siege battles, where the shields are really useful. I don't fight anyone in field, the AI just won't face me

[SeriousCCIE]

There will always be players that do the traditional "tank rush" which young people once called "zerg rush" after a game came out that they played, and since stupid usually is louder than smart, the term 'zerg rush' stuck into the common vernacular's lexicon of strategical thought definitions.

But you can be an old loser and still do a tank rush of zergs in any game that allows for enough unit spamming to carry a reasonable percentage of winning without needing to think about the whole rock paper scissors aspect. You get enough of the right type of rocks, and you can break anything, up close or from afar.

It's not as fun, though, but then again, what's fun to someone else might not be fun for people more in tune with which type of paper to use against a rock that spews fire that is melting and reforging the scissory defenses into a work of twisted chaotic art.

[Sn3z]

Originally posted by ChaosKhan:

The only question is, whether you'll find them effective enough. I love the tactical versatality of flyers, so I get a lot out of those beasts. If you use them as a single entity, throw them headfirst into arrow fire, never buff them and just see them as a disposable distraction/terror bomb they might be a bit underwhelming. Once you start to manouver them smartly, using them as packs, buffed by a lord and supported by a leadership bubble, I am pretty sure, that you'll view them differently. I think, when utilized like this, they are absolutely fantastic. They'll win you air fights, they'll win you flanks, they'll rip apart elites and they can even gang up on characters and rip mages to pieces in a matter of seconds. Furthermore, I am not sure why you compare them to Eagles... Eagles are considerably worse in a fight. They are faster and have no rampage, but otherwise the Manticore is superior.

I done around 5 tests with the Manitcore it lost out to a great eagle 3 times on normal but I have I have just realised that may by because of sloped terrain both flyers got the charge off aswell there was also two draws this was on Wyvern Lake. But on flat terrain out of 4 tests the maniticore does come away at best half health so that's fair enough, I retract the statement made about the eagle winning sloped terrain is situational.

In a army composition that trying to utilize the tiers as best as possible, T4 seems like quite a stretch the thing is you wouldn't recruit many of these units because they do have synergy with harpies, also Manticore can be skipped in favour of a Black Dragon seems as they are only in T5.

Seems as we now know the OP was Chaos it actually even worse they have no other flying units that validates their recruitment the T4 here is far worse as it stands but even a move to T3 wouldn't help. The OP switching to shaggoths actually makes sense becasue Manticore are a dead end for Chaos.

[Andrewbh2003]

Originally posted by 654681631:

Originally posted by andrewbh2003:

what a boring af army you literally just spam chosen? btw chosen halberds and shields are not even a good unit to spam if your gonna spam chosen then at the very least use 2-3 shields 2 GW "late game swap out the shields for all gw" and 2 halberds btw i have a lot of sucess with manticores especially for how cheap they are as last time i checked chosen dont cause terror and are not mobile at all

also 2 shaggoths? like why? unless your facing stacks with 10 steam tanks shaggoths are pointless regular dragon ogres and the summoners of rage are not only cheaper but also more effective at killing cav where the shaggoths are for killing big monsters but then again you already have plenty of anti large with your halberd spam so dont mind me

Because these human factions are spamming like crazy crossbows, handgunners, outriders.. And I fight them only in siege battles, where the shields are really useful. I don't fight anyone in field, the AI just won't face me

the problem with the shield variant of chosen is the lack of AP and by mid-late game "especially vs factions like empire" most units have medium/heavy armor so any unit especially a frontline unit that is that expensive cant not have AP like that army comp is not only boring its very inneficient in terms of cost and capabilities

heres a advice as chaos you need at most 2 halbeard units "I dont use em since i dont like em but they have a use" cut 1 shaggoth you never need 2 unless your fighting something like say TK or even wood elves

get some regular dragon ogres they are cheaper and arguibly better at "Killing cavalry" than chosen have some chaos knights as well 1 at least that army of yours has ZERO mobility you will just get kited by range play

if you insist on going with regular chosen the get about 2 trolls "Or even a giant if you fancy that" as they provide mass to your frontline any cav/chariots charging in to your frontile will be insanely cost effective

get a hellcanon or some horse masters you need at least 1 ranged tool again skirmish cav will get free value off that army

[ChaosKhan]

Originally posted by Sn3z:

In a army composition that trying to utilize the tiers as best as possible, T4 seems like quite a stretch the thing is you wouldn't recruit many of these units because they do have synergy with harpies, also Manticore can be skipped in favour of a Black Dragon seems as they are only in T5.

Seems as we now know the OP was Chaos it actually even worse they have no other flying units that validates their recruitment the T4 here is far worse as it stands but even a move to T3 wouldn't help. The OP switching to shaggoths actually makes sense becasue Manticore are a dead end for Chaos.

It depends. While the Black Dragon isn't as far off, it's nearly 3x as expensive but not 3x as strong. Basically, 2 or 3 Manticores will easily bite a Dragon out of the sky, bind 2-3 archers on the walls instead of 1 and deliver just a stronger punch (though the breath does compensate for it in certain circumstances). Normally, I never use Black Dragons and favor the Hydra instead in my main stacks. In my "irregular corps" though, what I need is flexibility and the Black Dragon is just not good enough.

Since I mentioned Black Arcs: The circumstances here favor the Manticores, since it takes a lot more time to develop Dragon recruitment on a Black Arc, so the Manticores are a long tern solution when doing Black Arc raids on the other side of the world.

I gotta admit though, that I am quite biased against dragons overall. The first time I ever used a dragon was when I got a Forest Dragon and sent it into a fight with a single unit of Chaos Hounds. Much to my dismay, it got bitten to death by the hounds in under a minute... Since then, I avoid those flying trashcans as much as possible (in vanilla) and not once did the game ever prove to me, that they are more viable than their alternatives.

[Booba]

Originally posted by andrewbh2003:

the problem with the shield variant of chosen is the lack of AP and by mid-late game "especially vs factions like empire" most units have medium/heavy armor so any unit especially a frontline unit that is that expensive cant not have AP like that army comp is not only boring its very inneficient in terms of cost and capabilities

You're putting too much emphasis on armor and armor piercing I think. The deciding factor with those units is the bonus against infantry, more so than the raw AP damage they do. That's why Dwarf Warriors with Great Weapons are so underwhelming. Even Longbeards with Great Weapons are going to get chewed up by basic Chosen, like little beardy snacks.

The shield I think is a good choice. The most dangerous weapons in the AI arsenal are far and away its ranged units.