The Awakened(Harkon Faction - Vortex)

[Gorwe]

Uhmm...what am I missing here? They seem so weak and flavorless. Sure, Harkon himself has got enough charisma for an entire faction, but...? When compared to Noct(big guns) or Cylostra(entirely different playstyle tbh) or even unmodded Sartosa(swimming in cash from all the looting)...

...and you are not as "invincible"(=AI basically ignoring you even if you declare war) like Sartosa or Noct(or even Cylostra). This is ... weird?

[Count von Bunnyhopven]

Ehh, I agree. His start is much more challenging than Noct or Cylostra. Because he starts with worse units and cant do magic. But he dont remain weaker. After a while he gains enough power to catch up somewhat. And all nations are not meant to be equally powerful.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Count von Bunnyhopven:

Ehh, I agree. His start is much more challenging than Noct or Cylostra. Because he starts with worse units and cant do magic. But he dont remain weaker. After a while he gains enough power to catch up somewhat. And all nations are not meant to be equally powerful.

Yes. This has got to be one of the hardest starts. Maybe even harder than Arkhan, that'd put him...where? No.1 concerning early difficulty? Arkhan can at least consolidate his province then go south, wipe out Sudenburg, Eshin then proceed to take Nehekhara for himself and finally finishing Bretonnia off. Luthor, I mean...? What? This isn't even an island or whatever, these are LANDBOUND PIRATES...uhm...

I just don't understand any of it. Plus his starting stack has got to be a joke. Look, Noct gets a Necrofex and Luthor gets...a Bloated Corpse? Like...hahahaha!

[Count von Bunnyhopven]

I would say there are harder starts. I just cant think of any right now...

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Count von Bunnyhopven:

I would say there are harder starts. I just cant think of any right now...

lol. Maybe Pestilens? I'm reaching for straws right now.

Talking about Vortex btw. But I don't think it's that easier on ME.

[Count von Bunnyhopven]

How about Moulder on Vortex. Starts in a small town surrounded by dark elves who are allied with each other? Have only played him on ME where his surroundings are easier so I dont know for sure.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Count von Bunnyhopven:

How about Moulder on Vortex. Starts in a small town surrounded by dark elves who are allied with each other? Have only played him on ME where his surroundings are easier so I dont know for sure.

Ugh, I must've repressed that memory. Ashrak(or whatever's its name) flashbacks!

But yeah, horrible starts!

[brownacs]

Originally posted by Count von Bunnyhopven:

How about Moulder on Vortex. Starts in a small town surrounded by dark elves who are allied with each other? Have only played him on ME where his surroundings are easier so I dont know for sure.

I'm trying to do this one right now. Not only are you surrounded by dark elves who all ally very quickly, you also have a really sucky 50 turn countdown which might be even worse than the vortex as a campaign mechanic (impressive really).

[wwolf69]

Luthor is fine. He is kind of "iconic" Vampirate, with no drawbacks or extras. His skills, AFAIR, are missile-troops oriented, so endgame shooters maximus.

Maybe you just aren't playing him right? Most important VC things are: disposable meat shields, its totally fine to recruit some new zombie units after every battle even in lategame.

And second one - you don't need to expand. Your ships will get you a recruitment, your pirate caves will make you money and hero slots. And they cant be destroyed like skaven ones, only after city conquer.

So you can take one province - and stop expanding until you will want it.

And speaking about "hard start" while there is ME Khalida or Vortex Moulder... please.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by wwolf69:

Luthor is fine. He is kind of "iconic" Vampirate, with no drawbacks or extras. His skills, AFAIR, are missile-troops oriented, so endgame shooters maximus.

Maybe you just aren't playing him right? Most important VC things are: disposable meat shields, its totally fine to recruit some new zombie units after every battle even in lategame.

And second one - you don't need to expand. Your ships will get you a recruitment, your pirate caves will make you money and hero slots. And they cant be destroyed like skaven ones, only after city conquer.

So you can take one province - and stop expanding until you will want it.

And speaking about "hard start" while there is ME Khalida or Vortex Moulder... please.

Nah. He's too vanilla, that's what he is. And he's next to Itza, Hex etc...not a good outlook for him. And it don't feel piratey to play him. Even unmodded Sartosa is better than him, congratulations!

His faction needs a rework of sorts, some sort of helping hand. Compared to Noct in specific, he seems like some kind of a joke. Cylostra has a wholly different playstyle(=good) and Sartosa...deserves a rework. The Awakened are too hard and too unsatisfying / unrewarding to play.

[Gorwe]

And I'm right now playing DreadFleet...OMG! I knew Noct was good, but...O.O . ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, Batman!

Luthor is utter ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, pure, simple, vanilla, nothing to him. I like the persona and anti magic mechanic, but...♥♥♥♥. One simple change that would allow Luthor to be 10x better is to make Vampire Coast hard to navigate(take a lot of points to move through - also better garrisons for the other two settlements) and, idk, allow luthor Underway or something. Make him iconic somehow, he SUCKS.

[Aleera]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

And I'm right now playing DreadFleet...OMG! I knew Noct was good, but...O.O . ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, Batman!

Luthor is utter ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, pure, simple, vanilla, nothing to him. I like the persona and anti magic mechanic, but...♥♥♥♥. One simple change that would allow Luthor to be 10x better is to make Vampire Coast hard to navigate(take a lot of points to move through - also better garrisons for the other two settlements) and, idk, allow luthor Underway or something. Make him iconic somehow, he SUCKS.

He is iconic. Unlike the other VC leaders, his faction revolves around him.
He gets two lores of magic, one for free.
He gets the only flyer mount of all the VC.
He's the only ranged lord of the VC (till noc gets his mount)
He's the only VC lord that attacks with both his pistol AND his mount at the same time.

You do realise, you can leave your starting settlement right?
As Luthor you can just set sail and take over the Maelstrom city for your own. Noone is forcing you to stay in that spot.

Like many of your posts your complaints are meritless. Just because you not enjoy them, doesn't mean they have to cater to you. Things you say would make them better, would mean for others the faction would feel worse.

The awakend plays just fine, only the Dreadfleet is slightly easier due to faster Necrofex recruitment. But that's it.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Rianne:

Originally posted by Gorwe:

And I'm right now playing DreadFleet...OMG! I knew Noct was good, but...O.O . ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, Batman!

Luthor is utter ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, pure, simple, vanilla, nothing to him. I like the persona and anti magic mechanic, but...♥♥♥♥. One simple change that would allow Luthor to be 10x better is to make Vampire Coast hard to navigate(take a lot of points to move through - also better garrisons for the other two settlements) and, idk, allow luthor Underway or something. Make him iconic somehow, he SUCKS.

He is iconic. Unlike the other VC leaders, his faction revolves around him.
He gets two lores of magic, one for free.
He gets the only flyer mount of all the VC.
He's the only ranged lord of the VC (till noc gets his mount)
He's the only VC lord that attacks with both his pistol AND his mount at the same time.

You do realise, you can leave your starting settlement right?
As Luthor you can just set sail and take over the Maelstrom city for your own. Noone is forcing you to stay in that spot.

Like many of your posts your complaints are meritless. Just because you not enjoy them, doesn't mean they have to cater to you. Things you say would make them better, would mean for others the faction would feel worse.

The awakend plays just fine, only the Dreadfleet is slightly easier due to faster Necrofex recruitment. But that's it.

Are you for real? Compare Luthor and Noct starts...even as far as his starting stacks. Luthor's is some kind of a joke while Noct has something closer to Imrik. And if you leave your starting position, if you change the entire intended experience...are you still playing Luthor? This is the Ship of, well, Luthor dilemma. You go and take over Maelstrom and then what? Take Colossi? What next? Mortars? Guess what? That's Noct's intended playstyle(Mortars, Colossi and Depth Guard imo - you can always swap DG for something else). Luthor's is more of "crapstack" if you would. A lot of undead gunners. I believe Harkon would also be much better if Deck Droppers actually did something. The only way to truly play Harkon is to stop being Harkon.

And most of that is brought to you by ... multiplayer! Harkon is a VERY GOOD character, awesome duelist, very useful. But that's on a battlefield, outside of it, he's useless. Have you noticed that he practically don't have any Faction or even Lord / Army effects?

Regardless, I enjoy both DF and Sartosa better and I have a nose I will enjoy Cylostra too. Spooky Bretonnia woo!

[Count von Bunnyhopven]

Cylostra is actually one of my picks for stronges legendary lord in the game if played right. (Strongest VC lord at the very least.) She has a hard start but just like Imrik her strength more than makes up for this problem.

The proper way to play her is to leave your army with the immortal ghost paladin and go at the enemy army alone. Summon 75 souped up ghost questing knights and put them i line formation, have them charge the enemy together with the pally. When all the enemies counter attacks and form a great big wall, just use Sylostra to overcast the revenge spell and tentacle vortex on the new bunched up line of enemies. It will often kill 300-600 enemies not counting whatever the questing knights kill. And this before the enemies even see your troops.

And the best tricks works twice! You can do it again after 120 sec. I have seen Cylostra walk away with 1500+ kills from some battles not counting what her summons kill.

[Aleera]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Are you for real? Compare Luthor and Noct starts...even as far as his starting stacks. Luthor's is some kind of a joke while Noct has something closer to Imrik. And if you leave your starting position, if you change the entire intended experience...are you still playing Luthor? This is the Ship of, well, Luthor dilemma. You go and take over Maelstrom and then what? Take Colossi? What next? Mortars? Guess what? That's Noct's intended playstyle(Mortars, Colossi and Depth Guard imo - you can always swap DG for something else). Luthor's is more of "crapstack" if you would. A lot of undead gunners. I believe Harkon would also be much better if Deck Droppers actually did something. The only way to truly play Harkon is to stop being Harkon.

And most of that is brought to you by ... multiplayer! Harkon is a VERY GOOD character, awesome duelist, very useful. But that's on a battlefield, outside of it, he's useless. Have you noticed that he practically don't have any Faction or even Lord / Army effects?

Regardless, I enjoy both DF and Sartosa better and I have a nose I will enjoy Cylostra too. Spooky Bretonnia woo!

Just because you take the Maelstrom, noone forces you to build like Noc would. Geezus.
The entire intended experience of the Vamp-pirates is that they do NOT have a fixed base. They're pirates, you're migrating. You're a horde faction that can settle.

Are you still playing Luthor? Ehm? .. Yes? Because you can migrate does it somehow magicly remove his campaign effects? Does the Maelstrom magicly make Luthor turn into a necrofex and not a 2 lore casting flying monster that can shoot and melee at the same time?

No faction effects? That's because his entire playstyle revolves around HIM and other heroes/lords.
Noctilus gets what? -1 recruitment? +2 recruitment via ships? Wooooh, so amazing.
Saltspite gives better raiding and sacking? .. yay. Asif you need more gold unless it's early game.
Direfin gives +2 loyalty, which means very little because you rarely if ever recruit non ship building lords. -20% upkeep means little because both unit's are not the strength of the VC and does not change gameplay and -20% recruitment cost means even less.

So no, you are being obtuse, you didn't enjoy Luthor Harkon's campaign, go to the forums to complain and want it changed for everyone. His faction is fine.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Count von Bunnyhopven:

Cylostra is actually one of my picks for stronges legendary lord in the game if played right. (Strongest VC lord at the very least.) She has a hard start but just like Imrik her strength more than makes up for this problem.

The proper way to play her is to leave your army with the immortal ghost paladin and go at the enemy army alone. Summon 75 souped up ghost questing knights and put them i line formation, have them charge the enemy together with the pally. When all the enemies counter attacks and form a great big wall, just use Sylostra to overcast the revenge spell and tentacle vortex on the new bunched up line of enemies. It will often kill 300-600 enemies not counting whatever the questing knights kill. And this before the enemies even see your troops.

And the best tricks works twice! You can do it again after 120 sec. I have seen Cylostra walk away with 1500+ kills from some battles not counting what her summons kill.

Yes, she has entirely different playstyle than most Vampirates. And she's very good.

Originally posted by Rianne:

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Are you for real? Compare Luthor and Noct starts...even as far as his starting stacks. Luthor's is some kind of a joke while Noct has something closer to Imrik. And if you leave your starting position, if you change the entire intended experience...are you still playing Luthor? This is the Ship of, well, Luthor dilemma. You go and take over Maelstrom and then what? Take Colossi? What next? Mortars? Guess what? That's Noct's intended playstyle(Mortars, Colossi and Depth Guard imo - you can always swap DG for something else). Luthor's is more of "crapstack" if you would. A lot of undead gunners. I believe Harkon would also be much better if Deck Droppers actually did something. The only way to truly play Harkon is to stop being Harkon.

And most of that is brought to you by ... multiplayer! Harkon is a VERY GOOD character, awesome duelist, very useful. But that's on a battlefield, outside of it, he's useless. Have you noticed that he practically don't have any Faction or even Lord / Army effects?

Regardless, I enjoy both DF and Sartosa better and I have a nose I will enjoy Cylostra too. Spooky Bretonnia woo!

Just because you take the Maelstrom, noone forces you to build like Noc would. Geezus.
The entire intended experience of the Vamp-pirates is that they do NOT have a fixed base. They're pirates, you're migrating. You're a horde faction that can settle.

Are you still playing Luthor? Ehm? .. Yes? Because you can migrate does it somehow magicly remove his campaign effects? Does the Maelstrom magicly make Luthor turn into a necrofex and not a 2 lore casting flying monster that can shoot and melee at the same time?

No faction effects? That's because his entire playstyle revolves around HIM and other heroes/lords.
Noctilus gets what? -1 recruitment? +2 recruitment via ships? Wooooh, so amazing.
Saltspite gives better raiding and sacking? .. yay. Asif you need more gold unless it's early game.
Direfin gives +2 loyalty, which means very little because you rarely if ever recruit non ship building lords. -20% upkeep means little because both unit's are not the strength of the VC and does not change gameplay and -20% recruitment cost means even less.

So no, you are being obtuse, you didn't enjoy Luthor Harkon's campaign, go to the forums to complain and want it changed for everyone. His faction is fine.

I'm done showing you what's obvious. This is similar to Bonerattlerz situation. Pathetic faction backed up by a rather good(awesome in the case of Luthor) Leader. While Rattlerz don't have the happiest of starting places, it's nowhere near luthor whose start flatout SUCKS. Sure, it's not Moulder Vortex start or Khalida ME start, but...it's not far away.