Why would you switch to thunderers?

[The Coal Man]

They do 1/2 the damage, AND are handguns which require constant microing and positioning to even fire. They also have 15 less range. Seems like a direct downgrade to me.

For context I am playing Angrund so armored enemies was never an issue and I am now to the late game with primarily low tier armies.

[ArchAnge1LT]

They are armor piercing. They might be worse versus chaff and low armored, but once you fight elite units, armored monsters, they are much better.

[Mr Robert House]

AP damage and the ability to hit small, fast moving things.

[Tricks]

Armor piercing is king in this game.

[Andrewbh2003]

as others said AP and there projectiles are much harder to dodge compared to quarellers

your much better in thinking of them as a side-grade rather than a straight upgrade

still very good and the second best handgun type unit in the game "behind of course gunnery mobs"

[Zane87]

As always, you only need microing direct fire missile units if you plan to flank them, which is NOT necessary at all if you use the correct formation.

They also fulfill a different role than quarrelers because they are AP direct missile units which means they are way better against armor and way way better against fast small units (lords/heroes) or flyers. They also do very well against most units.

And while range is a legit concern, the stuff you want to shoot usually comes into range anyway (there are not too many heavily armored missile units that outrange them, and artillery can deal with those as well) and because of the missile speed differeince of quarellers and thunderers it means that usually both projectiles hit the same time despite the lower range.

Do not use the one or another. Use both.

[SirSanjiSlacks]

They annihilate flying units, they're good against elite infantry, and they do mostly AP damage.

Quallers are better for the early game, and against savage orcs. Quallers early game doomstacks are also better than thunderers.

[Mr Robert House]

If you’ve ever used a fast flying caster to mess with an enemy army you’ll know that archers are a joke and will waste all their ammo and guns are scary, and can actually prevent some of those shenanigans.

[Dakota]

Gun > bow

Things can't dodge it well at all, ownzones armored stuff just fine, high damage, "constant microing and positioning" is literally just plopping them down with a half decent sight line at the beginning of the fight, not hard to keep sightlines open with dwarfs that are already shorter than your enemy.

Damage is way way better than half, it's like 21 vs 19 with the thunderers being 17:5 AP favor while quarrellers only have 6:18 and are less accurate. Thunderers are doing better against even lightly armored stuff at this rate. Like basic empire spearmen thunderers do more damage to already, good luck vs chosen with quarrelers.

[Ashley]

Armor Piercing. That is all that needs to be said.

[zefyris]

unless you're fighting specifically against enemies all in heavy armour, do NOT swap everything for handgunners. you have other options better for non armoured units. But having 2 thunderer around to quickly kill pesky armoured units is very handy passed mid game.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by zefyris:

unless you're fighting specifically against enemies all in heavy armour, do NOT swap everything for handgunners. you have other options better for non armoured units. But having 2 thunderer around to quickly kill pesky armoured units is very handy passed mid game.

Just did the math for the cutoff points, 64 armor is the point at which thunderers do more damage than their cost in quarrellers assuming all hits. Of course thunderers are also better at hitting flying stuff, moving stuff, and smaller stuff like lords.

[Saint Sanguine]

playing against them and the the few times i have used them i noticed they do way more damage, the thunderers that is

[lPaladinl]

When you fight Chaos Warriors as an example, you'll wish you had Thunderers, not Crossbows. AP matters.

[Xaphnir]

Originally posted by ArchAnge1LT:

They are armor piercing. They might be worse versus chaff and low armored, but once you fight elite units, armored monsters, they are much better.

Even against chaff, they're generally better than quarrellers due to superior accuracy.

Also, OP, where did you get the idea that they have only half the damage of quarrellers from? Their reload speed is the same, and their damage profile is such that even at low armor values thunderers do more damage per shot.

[The Coal Man]

im not playing right now but I check the stats and it was flat out doubled. I have gold quarrelers at this point though so that could be what made such a big difference. From memory the drop was roughly from about 40 to 20. Definitely half the damage though, and they do have an engineer with them if it doesnt factor that into the new unit stats. I was under the impression that quarrelers were mostly AP anyway.